Sweden - Gay Marriage Now Legal In.....

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It's just so illogical how some people are shouting about protecting religious liberty at the same time that they're demanding that the laws of the country that govern everybody's lives be shaped according to THEIR religion.

I don't think that is it at all..
I think that it can be something that impedes on Religious freedom. Because what happens when someone wants to get married in a church and that church refuses? Will they then just find somewhere else or try and make that church comply?

What if someone does not believe this ruling is correct? Are they allowed to have their own feelings or will they be labeled a bigot and a homophobic for standing up for how they feel and how their religion is structured?

I think there are horrible people that hate to hate. But I think there are good people who would not stand in anyone's way to live their life as they choose but still have their own feelings on the matter.

 

[marble]

I think there are horrible people that hate to hate. But I think there are good people who would not stand in anyone's way to live their life as they choose but still have their own feelings on the matter.

And those people should have no problem with this ruling then! They aren't being forced to get married to someone of the same sex so no harm, no foul. This law allows people who aren't straight to "live their life as they choose" so it's win-win on that count. Anyone who feels that two people of the same sex should not be allowed to get married can still maintain those feelings, but their personal feelings will no longer impeded a gay couple's option to marry. It's cool like that.

 

[Nova]

I lived next door to a lovely pair of eldery ladies years ago. They presented themselves as "sisters" that never found the right men to marry. I could tell, though I never called them out or anything, that they were spouses and had been for many years. Their love for each other was evident, and I'm positive it was more than sex, lol.

They have both passed away now, but I am thinking of them frequently recently. I wish they could have seen just a few more years...

If your suspicions are correct, I'm sure they thought of themselves as married. I know my husband and I did, even though we were together for over 30 years before the state recognized our relationship.

 

[Nova]

I was walking through John Wayne Airport and saw this on the TV screen. I just broke down and cried. What a celebration my brother and I would have had, if only he were here with me! As far as I'm concerned this never should have been an issue! And I still can't stop crying. I'm very happy but still just a little sad too and angry!

Did your brother die, grammie? Mine did, 22 years ago. I like to think he is looking down and smiling a little.

 

[Brightbird]

I don't think that is it at all..
I think that it can be something that impedes on Religious freedom. Because what happens when someone wants to get married in a church and that church refuses? Will they then just find somewhere else or try and make that church comply?

What if someone does not believe this ruling is correct? Are they allowed to have their own feelings or will they be labeled a bigot and a homophobic for standing up for how they feel and how their religion is structured?

I think there are horrible people that hate to hate. But I think there are good people who would not stand in anyone's way to live their life as they choose but still have their own feelings on the matter.

What about congregations and churches that would like to marry gay couples? Shouldn't they be allowed to practise their religious freedom? Why should a few denominations of religion make the rules for everyone else? Anyway, haven't churches been refusing to marry heterosexual couples 'living in sin' for thousands of years? Religious arguments against same-sex marriage are so complicated and illogical. Live and let live. It's pretty simple.

 

[Nova]

I don't think that is it at all..
I think that it can be something that impedes on Religious freedom. Because what happens when someone wants to get married in a church and that church refuses? Will they then just find somewhere else or try and make that church comply?

What if someone does not believe this ruling is correct? Are they allowed to have their own feelings or will they be labeled a bigot and a homophobic for standing up for how they feel and how their religion is structured?

I think there are horrible people that hate to hate. But I think there are good people who would not stand in anyone's way to live their life as they choose but still have their own feelings on the matter.

Nobody can force a church to perform gay marriages, no more than Roman Catholic churches have ever been required to marry non-Catholics. It's a non-issue and a dishonest one at that; it's time to let it go.

Otherwise, if you serve the public, you serve the public. Unless you are conducting detailed interviews with every cake buyer before you decide to bake for them, then singling out gays and lesbians is just discrimination, pure and center.

Everyone is entitled to have his/her own feelings on any subject, just as I am entitled to think they are idiots, cherry-picking Bible passages that suit pre-existing prejudices. But that doesn't give any of us the right to mistreat such people, morons though they may be.

 

[grammieto5]

Did your brother die, grammie? Mine did, 22 years ago. I like to think he is looking down and smiling a little.

He did, he died from Agent Orange. I believe as you do. I'm sure my brother is smiling, too. I believe he is a little sad too. But not angry, my brother has the sweetest kindest most gentle soul. I know he would want me to let go of the anger, I will, soon, one day.

 

[nomoresorrow]

(Bold by me)

Nobody can force a church to perform gay marriages, no more than Roman Catholic churches have ever been required to marry non-Catholics. It's a non-issue and a dishonest one at that; it's time to let it go.

Otherwise, if you serve the public, you serve the public. Unless you are conducting detailed interviews with every cake buyer before you decide to bake for them, then singling out gays and lesbians is just discrimination, pure and center.

Everyone is entitled to have his/her own feelings on any subject, just as I am entitled to think they are idiots, cherry-picking Bible passages that suit pre-existing prejudices. But that doesn't give any of us the right to mistreat such people, morons though they may be.

RE: bolded comment ^ Another fear-mongering tactic used by right-wing extremists; however, they should be very-very careful continuing this line of dishonest propaganda because it could come back to bite them in the arse when people finally say ENOUGH, no more tax-exemption status for churches/organizations who cannot/do not respect and abide by separation of church and state. And, for the record, I would be one of those to say "ENOUGH!"

MO ~

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Nobody can force a church to perform gay marriages, no more than Roman Catholic churches have ever been required to marry non-Catholics. It's a non-issue and a dishonest one at that; it's time to let it go.

Otherwise, if you serve the public, you serve the public. Unless you are conducting detailed interviews with every cake buyer before you decide to bake for them, then singling out gays and lesbians is just discrimination, pure and center.

Everyone is entitled to have his/her own feelings on any subject, just as I am entitled to think they are idiots, cherry-picking Bible passages that suit pre-existing prejudices. But that doesn't give any of us the right to mistreat such people, morons though they may be.

We will see. I don't think anyone should mistreat anyone. Not for any reason. I think we are talking of two different things. I am not talking about prejudice or hatred just issues that may arise. We will see what happens in the future. I think that people can not agree without one of them having to be prejudice or racist, or bigots.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What about congregations and churches that would like to marry gay couples? Shouldn't they be allowed to practise their religious freedom? Why should a few denominations of religion make the rules for everyone else? Anyway, haven't churches been refusing to marry heterosexual couples 'living in sin' for thousands of years? Religious arguments against same-sex marriage are so complicated and illogical. Live and let live. It's pretty simple.

Who is saying one person should decide for everyone?
If the church is on board with gay marriages and they want to provide them, that is their right within the bounds of their belief structure.
Again no one is telling anyone how to live.. I am just exploring some thoughts and questions..

 

[nrdsb4]

What if someone does not believe this ruling is correct? Are they allowed to have their own feelings or will they be labeled a bigot and a homophobic for standing up for how they feel and how their religion is structured?

There has been no law passed ever which governs what feelings people are allowed to have.

I'm legally entitled to believe it's a sin for blacks to marry whites and I can say that I don't think it should be legal due to my "sincerely held religious beliefs." I can go to a public place and hold up a sign to that effect. And others have the right to point out that they find me to be a racist.

 

[Montjoy]

I don't think that is it at all..
Are they allowed to have their own feelings or will they be labeled a bigot and a homophobic for standing up for how they feel and how their religion is structured?

Well, if the shoe fits...

 

[EllieBee]

We will see. I don't think anyone should mistreat anyone. Not for any reason. I think we are talking of two different things. I am not talking about prejudice or hatred just issues that may arise. We will see what happens in the future. I think that people can not agree without one of them having to be prejudice or racist, or bigots.

Denying persons their Constitutionally guranteed rights is clearly mistreatment.

That said, no church will be forced to go against its tenets by marrying same-sex couples. Or couples who have previously cohabitated. Or people who are not confirmed or baptized as a member of that particular faith.

No one is going to be forced to go against their faith, unless they serve in a secular position (i.e. Political seat) , and no one will be forced to marry. Just like with straight people. Because gays are people. And they are now guaranteed the same rights as hetero couples.

This is the right thing, ethically, morally and now, LEGALLY!

If people want to get butt hurt because another subset is afforded the same rights as they, then boo hoo, cry me a river.

We heard that same garbage when integration became the law. It is a tired, pedantic and frankly ineffective argument.

 

[Eloise]

That said, no church will be forced to go against its tenets by marrying same-sex couples. Or couples who have previously cohabitated. Or people who are not confirmed or baptized as a member of that particular faith.

No one is going to be forced to go against their faith, unless they serve in a secular position (i.e. Political seat) , and no one will be forced to marry. Just like with straight people. Because gays are people. And they are now guaranteed the same rights as hetero couples.

This!
As a person who is a) divorced b) have been living (unmarried) with my partner for over 10 years who I c) have had two "OUT-OF-WEDLOCK" children with in that time, I would not in a million years expect a church to marry us against their beliefs, should we ever decide to marry. Why would I? It would be nonsensical; why would we want to marry in a church that didn't want us and believed we were irredeemable sinners? And yet I believe they have the right to not marry us. We don't kick up a stink about it! And neither do gay couples! I know a lot of gay people and not a single one is interested in a church wedding anyway - not even in a church that would marry them.

My step-cousin - who lived with his fiance and had a baby with her - wanted to marry in an Anglican church (his fiance was Anglican). The Anglican priest said no - you're living in sin and have the proof right there in the baby. He also said no to baptising the baby! So they went to the local Catholic church instead (he's Catholic) - and the priest said yes, I'll marry you and baptise the child. So churches are already turning people who "aren't good enough" away ... but who can't turn you away? The local registry office (here in Australia - whatever the state version is in your local jurisdiction) - they can't turn you away because you live together, are divorced, have babies already etc - they just follow the letter of the law. Church - state difference!

That said it's a moot point, I live in a country without marriage equality, but I'm sure this will absolutely come up here once it's legalised here as well, as it will be eventually. Probably sooner now the US has.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/a-30-second-guide-to-how-gay-marriage-ruling-affects-you/

A 30-Second Guide to How the Gay Marriage Ruling Affects You

 

[Donjeta]

I don't think that is it at all..
I think that it can be something that impedes on Religious freedom. Because what happens when someone wants to get married in a church and that church refuses? Will they then just find somewhere else or try and make that church comply?

How likely is it that people would want to celebrate their marriage in a church that totally disapproves and has to be forced to comply? I think it would put an unfortunate damper on the celebrations.

What if someone does not believe this ruling is correct? Are they allowed to have their own feelings or will they be labeled a bigot and a homophobic for standing up for how they feel and how their religion is structured?

Everybody is allowed to have the same feelings they always did. I haven't read the whole ruling yet but I don't remember anything there that prohibited anybody from feeling that being gay is a grievous sin. Of course, other people are allowed to feel that some people are bigoted and homophobic when they express certain feelings of theirs. The Supreme Court ruling changed nothing, everything is just as before in that respect. The only difference is that the religious/bigoted/homophobic people's feelings don't impede gays from getting married any more.

I think there are horrible people that hate to hate. But I think there are good people who would not stand in anyone's way to live their life as they choose but still have their own feelings on the matter.

I feel that some laws totally suck. I am allowed. This court decision doesn't affect anyone's feelings any more than any previous legislation did.

I can't see how anyone who believes in letting others live as they choose would have a problem with this ruling that lets gay people live as they choose.

 

[Nova]

Nobody can force a church to perform gay marriages, no more than Roman Catholic churches have ever been required to marry non-Catholics. It's a non-issue and a dishonest one at that; it's time to let it go.

Otherwise, if you serve the public, you serve the public. Unless you are conducting detailed interviews with every cake buyer before you decide to bake for them, then singling out gays and lesbians is just discrimination, pure and center.

Everyone is entitled to have his/her own feelings on any subject, just as I am entitled to think they are idiots, cherry-picking Bible passages that suit pre-existing prejudices. But that doesn't give any of us the right to mistreat such people, morons though they may be.

I'm quoting my own post because it's too late to edit it.

But upon review I feel bad that my remarks on ideas I find moronic might be construed to refer to ScarlettScarpetta, to whom I was responding. I meant no such thing.

Scarlett, I am deeply sorry if it seemed I was disparaging you in my post. We may or may not agree on this subject, but I was in no way questioning your intelligence.

 

[Nova]

This!
As a person who is a) divorced b) have been living (unmarried) with my partner for over 10 years who I c) have had two "OUT-OF-WEDLOCK" children with in that time, I would not in a million years expect a church to marry us against their beliefs, should we ever decide to marry. Why would I? It would be nonsensical; why would we want to marry in a church that didn't want us and believed we were irredeemable sinners? And yet I believe they have the right to not marry us. We don't kick up a stink about it! And neither do gay couples! I know a lot of gay people and not a single one is interested in a church wedding anyway - not even in a church that would marry them.

My step-cousin - who lived with his fiance and had a baby with her - wanted to marry in an Anglican church (his fiance was Anglican). The Anglican priest said no - you're living in sin and have the proof right there in the baby. He also said no to baptising the baby! So they went to the local Catholic church instead (he's Catholic) - and the priest said yes, I'll marry you and baptise the child. So churches are already turning people who "aren't good enough" away ... but who can't turn you away? The local registry office (here in Australia - whatever the state version is in your local jurisdiction) - they can't turn you away because you live together, are divorced, have babies already etc - they just follow the letter of the law. Church - state difference!

That said it's a moot point, I live in a country without marriage equality, but I'm sure this will absolutely come up here once it's legalised here as well, as it will be eventually. Probably sooner now the US has.

I had no idea clergy were refusing to marry people who are "living in sin"! Doesn't marriage rectify the "sin"? Shouldn't that be the church's goal? Color me confused.

 

[Nova]

BTW, my husband and I are not churchgoers and we were happy to marry in our backyard with family, friends and a "minister" ordained over the internet.

I suppose we could get remarried or have our marriage blessed in a church if we wanted to do so (I doubt that will happen), but there are plenty of churches here that do such ceremonies. We have no reason to force ourselves on those which don't.

 

[Nova]

Nothing new on this subject? Did I miss the Apocalypse?