Sweden - Olof Palme, 59, Stockholm, 28 Feb 1986

[kemo]

On a recent trip to Sweden, on a whim I went to the site of the Palme assassination (there is a plaque marking the spot). It was on a very busy street with a lot of auto and pedestrian traffic late at night. It is very close to the City Center. I am not surprised there were many witnesses and police were able to quickly. Witnesses saw him run for a block or so, so it was known what direction he went but then his vanished.

A lot of people would have seen him go into the cinema and would be very possible for some to find out when the film would end and return with a gun and an escape plan.

 

[snarast]

It’s a bit nonsensical when they don’t show the image in question.

Is it this one?

Fantombilden

wpu.nu

 

[snarast]

This is not the classic fantombild, but whatever it is - it’s close. Although I question hiding the chin like that in the drawing. It’s odd.

 

[kemo]

This is the only composite I have seen of the “possible” suspect. Apparently there were as many as 20 witnesses to the murder or the man seen fleeing the crime scene and Palme’s son provided the description of a man he described as “ loitering” outside the theater as they were leaving. There was even a witness who was an artist who provided her own composite. From what I can tell, these various descriptions and composites have been played down by investigators; probably because they appear to be different people so have little credibility and could hurt the investigation. It is very possible that some of the witnesses saw other witnesses fleeing from the scene. Other “witnesses” may exaggerate how much they really saw. I would think Law Enforcement should have been able to identify those who were reasonably credible and gotten a “consensus” identification/composite.

For whatever it is worth, the composite provided by snarast above looks a lot like Christer Pettersson but nothing like Engstrom or Andersson. Pettersson’s conviction was based on the identification by Palme’s wife. She only saw him for a split second and her identification has been rejected but it is possible that the actual killer bore some resemblance to Pettersson.

It would be interesting to see every composite and where the witnesses who provided it was standing when they saw the perpetrator.

 

[iamshadow21]

I think it's kind of useless treating a composite by a witness as though it has the same merit as a photograph. Any person the AI spits out is only going to be as valid as the original composite's accuracy, and will more than likely just point the finger at an innocent person.

MOO

 

[snarast]

I think it's kind of useless treating a composite by a witness as though it has the same merit as a photograph. Any person the AI spits out is only going to be as valid as the original composite's accuracy, and will more than likely just point the finger at an innocent person.

MOO

Sure - but if there was ever a botched investigation of a head of state, it’s this one.

So the eye witnesses are the only ones I would pay attention to. Especially the discredited ones.

 

[snarast]

It would be interesting to see every composite and where the witnesses who provided it was standing when they saw the perpetrator.

Indeed, indeed.

 

[kemo]

Direct evidence in this case is limited to the two bullets and the description/composites provided by witnesses. The bullet lead has been pretty throughly pursued and, while certainly having some value, has not lead to a solid suspect. The eyewitnesses are all that is left. It appears near certain that the perpetrator went up the stair on Tunnelgatan then East on David Bargares Gatan. The probative value of any witness who he passed along that route would be high. None of them may have gotten a good look but whatever they could offer would be quite valuable.

 

[kemo]

 

[kemo]

View attachment 534951

This is a composite based on the description provided by a woman who saw a man running in the direction away from the murder scene at some point soon after the murder. She saw this man running past where direct witnesses Lars Jeppersson last saw the perpetrator so it is not certain that it was actually the murderer. Unlike others witnesses, she got a good look at the face. In literature about the murder, he is sometimes referred to as “the Phantom”. Apparently, this is the composite that was publicized during the investigation and is the best know image. There are doubts about it however. He doesn’t particularly look like any suspect.

 

[snarast]

This is a composite based on the description provided by a woman who saw a man running in the direction away from the murder scene at some point soon after the murder. She saw this man running past where direct witnesses Lars Jeppersson last saw the perpetrator so it is not certain that it was actually the murderer. Unlike others witnesses, she got a good look at the face. In literature about the murder, he is sometimes referred to as “the Phantom”. Apparently, this is the composite that was publicized during the investigation and is the best know image. There are doubts about it however. He doesn’t particularly look like any suspect.

Some of Those wittnesses around Malmskillnadsgatan probably saw the killer.

No - this is a hopeless case. It’s not worth thinking about, even…

Palme was a bit like Trump in that there were plenty of people out for his blood. He was also very ”mean” in his rhetorical style - basically blew his opponents to smithereens to the point people just really hated him. And he had some deeply communist ideas that he was able to implement. Up to a point. And now we have that memorial plaque to remind us of where that journey ended.

And since he didn’t have his body guards present - unlike Trump - the killer got up to him and pressed the gun at the part of the back where the bullet would obliterate his spine and aorta all at once. Hard to miss at that distance.

The only chance is if there was blow back into the gun and the killer kept it as a trophy.

Kind of as likely as peace on earth.

 

[snarast]

So, further to my previous; the police have always stated that a Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver was used due to the nature of the two recovered bullets. If they are basing that on the bullets alone then they cannot say definitively that that particular type of firearm was used.

The .357 Magnum cartridge is identical to the .38 Special cartridge except for the former is slightly longer. This is done primarily in order that the former cannot be chambered in a revolver designed for the latter as .357 is loaded to significantly higher pressures. Pressures that lots of older .38 revolvers, which might date back to 1899, will not be able to safely handle. The extra length also provides for a greater internal volume so that more propellant can be used.

.38 Special

.38 Special - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.357 Magnum

.357 Magnum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The particular 158 grain Winchester-Western metal piercing bullets which were recovered from the scene have been loaded into both .357 Mag and .38 Special ammunition. I have some of the latter which I'll post pics of in due course. In one of the old news reports in the documentary they were described as "armour piercing" which is not correct - they were intended to penetrate car doors and windscreens more effectively than other rounds.

This being the case, I don't know how the police arrived at a definitive decision of them being fired from a .357 weapon without having a cartridge case (which revolvers don't expel) or them having other reasons which haven't been elaborated on.

So, it could be either a .357 or a .38 revolver which was used. Personally, I would err towards being a .357 based on the witness interviews; one guy (a taxi driver, I think) described it as an extremely loud bang which tends to suggest a .357.

In addition to the above, the police have stated very definitely that the gun was a revolver made by Smith & Wesson. They called in every licensed .357 made by S&W for testing but never identified any gun as being the murder weapon. My question would be - how do they know that it was definitely made by S&W? Now, it's possible that they can identify the particular rifling pattern on the bullets as being one used only by S&W but I've seen nothing to back that up.

I seriously wonder whether it was actually a gun made by S&W at all. It's only my suspicion but I'm concerned that something may have been mixed up here; as is described on the above Wiki link, the full name of the cartridge is ".357 Smith and Wesson Magnum" because it was developed by them and a few other guys in the 1930's. Is it possible that the investigators got mixed up and assumed that only S&W make guns for this round so were only looking for S&W guns, I wonder? The cartridge has been chambered by Colt, Ruger, Dan Wesson, Starr, Astra and Taurus to name just a few. There will be dozens of others. Unless they have info to confirm it as being an S&W I'll remain skeptical.

As a point of interest, I'm loosely connected to this (very loosely); my ex, who was 5 at the time, lived about two streets away and told me years ago that she remembers hearing the sirens and commotion going on at the time.

Engström is unlikely for so many reasons:

1. He has no resemblance to Christer Pettersson, the man identified by Lisbeth Palme as the shooter. When I say that I mean there is no similarity.

2. OP was shot at a slightly downward angle. How would the diminutive Engström do that. OP wasn’t tall but probably not that short.

3. Given the eye witness Lisbeth, it is unlikely that Engström would have drawn attention to himself if he was the actual assassin. Engström wäs on TV as a witness in the days after the murder.

4. The assassin was allegedly standing in wait rather than running up behind OP. How would he have known OP would cross the street from the right side to the left (in the direction toward Sergels torg)? Certainly, if Engström did this alone there is a lot of luck involved.

Also - he was shot pretty much at the very city center, like Times square. The street where it happened is called Sveavägen for a reason. Svea is an olden word for Sweden - ”Svea
Rike” was concatenated to Sve-rige. If you had to pick the most important/central street in Sweden it is probably this one.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Engström is unlikely for so many reasons:

1. He has no resemblance to Christer Pettersson, the man identified by Lisbeth Palme as the shooter. When I say that I mean there is no similarity.

2. OP was shot at a slightly downward angle. How would the diminutive Engström do that. OP wasn’t tall but probably not that short.

3. Given the eye witness Lisbeth, it is unlikely that Engström would have drawn attention to himself if he was the actual assassin. Engström wäs on TV as a witness in the days after the murder.

4. The assassin was allegedly standing in wait rather than running up behind OP. How would he have known OP would cross the street from the right side to the left (in the direction toward Sergels torg)? Certainly, if Engström did this alone there is a lot of luck involved.

Also - he was shot pretty much at the very city center, like Times square. The street where it happened is called Sveavägen for a reason. Svea is an olden word for Sweden - ”Svea
Rike” was concatenated to Sve-rige. If you had to pick the most important/central street in Sweden it is probably this one.

Not trying to be argumentative here but I'm not really seeing what relevance your post has to the one of mine you quoted?

 

[snarast]

Not trying to be argumentative here but I'm not really seeing what relevance your post has to the one of mine you quoted?

Because I’m sloppy. I had another thought about the bullet but got side tracked by the absurdity of Engström as a suspect. And also by sadness, thinking about how bizarre this case is.

And then I forgot to remove the quote. Sorry about that.

Oh yeah the bullet that grazed LP’s back was not too damaged as it hit something far away on the other side of the street. I don’t have much expertise in the area but that bullet looks fairly intact?

Source: wpu.nu