Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #2

[Valhall]

Lots of solvents and cleaners listed. I am going to study this list more when I get home. But I had a thought today about testosterone and syringes. I have read that meth users who are still sexually active use testosterone to counteract the ill effects of meth on their male "working parts." Do any of these chemicals come from meth ingredients? I see a few cigarette ingredients in this list but I am not familiar enough with meth to know how it's made or what chemicals its ingredients break down into.

Great info. I am excited to look these chemicals and compounds up and think more about them.

I actually looked into what was needed for the "shake and bake" meth process and it's just not coming up right. I looked at the contents of both the Gatorade bottle and the Crystal lite bottle and neither one seem to hit right.

 

[USARDOG]

Wasn't there a search for something like house hold products as a weapon on her computer?

I'm a Doctor, but not the on the MD side.

 

[Imbackon]

OK, let's move on from chloroform since that proved to be a dead end. :banghead:

I took a look at what was found in the Gatorade bottle, the syringe, and the Crystal Light bottle. Here I summarize what the chemistry lab found. Later I will try to do the same for the toxicology lab (which is where the testosterone was noticed). I have sorted the compounds in order of greatest to least abundance, and I have added a little comment as to the possible purpose of the compound.

From the Gatorade bottle:

ethanol - Denatured ethanol is a solvent
dodecanol - Surfactant
limonene - Solvent
turpineol - Herbal oil
n-tridecan-1-ol - Used in cleaning solutions
2-methyl-1-undecanol - Used in cleaning solutions
7-Octen-2-ol, 2,6-dimethyl - Aromatic used in soaps
dodecane - Solvent
tetradecyl trifluoroacetate - Used in insecticides
1,7,7-trimethyl-bicyclo[2.2.1]hept-2-yl ester - ?
tert-butanol - Used to denature ethanol
eucolyptol - Frangance, insecticide
acetone - Used to denature ethanol
​

IMHO, it looks to me like the Gatorade bottle contained a household cleaner or possibly something like a degreaser. There may have been a mixture of cleaners. Clearly it was not Gatorade or anything one would want to ingest.

From the syringe:

dodecanol - Surfactant
Butylated Hydroxytoluene - Anti-oxidant used in food preservation and other industrial purposes
ethanol - Denatured alcohol is a solvent
limonene - Solvent
turpineol - Herbal oil
dodecane - Solvent
undecane - Attract moths, cockroaches
tetradecane - Cosmetic use?
​

As with the Gatorade bottle, the syringe contents suggest some form of a cleaner is present, although it does not appear to be identical to the contents found in the Gatorade bottle. Again, this appears to be a set of chemicals one would not expect to find in a syringe.

Given the testosterone was found in the toxicology analysis, my initial reaction is that the syringe was used to inject steroids and discarded. It was later found and used to hold a caustic substance.

From the Crystal Light bottle:

2-Butanol - Solvent, also converted to Butanone
methyl ethyl ketone - Solvent, denaturing agent, cleaning agent
Methyl Alcohol - Solvent
Disulfide, dimethyl - Insecticide - contributor of urine smell
P-cresol - Disinfectants, insecticides
Anisole - Aromatic in perfumes and insecticides
Methyl Isocyanide - Pesticides
cyclohexane, [(1-methylpropyl)thio]- - Fungicide, insecticide?
Trimethylamine - Manufacturing use. Main source of urine smell
Phenol - Antiseptic, herbicide
2-Nonanol, 5-ethyl- - Fungicide, insecticide?
Benzothiazole - Industrial use - binding agent?
1-Methoxycycloheptatriene - Use unknown, seems to be a neurotoxin
​

Once again, what appears to be cleaning fluid, insecticide, deodorizer, or some mixture of the above is found in the Crystal Light bottle. Not what one would expect to find.

From things taken from the Anthony Home
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4359374...-Office-Evidence-Property-Forms--02-18-09_001
Item 64 taken from Storage shed.


Zep degreaser ingredient from their site for the one that has citris scent

http://www.zepcommercial.com/msds/ZUCIT.pdf

D-LIMONENE - orange distillate; citrus terpene;
cyclohexene, 1-methyl-4-(1-methylethenyl)-, (R)-
5989-27-5 1 - 5 Not established
MONOETHANOLAMINE; 2-aminoethanol; MEA 141-43-5 1 - 5 OSHA PEL / ACGIH TLV
(United States).
TWA: 3 ppm 8 hour(s).
OSHA /ACGIH (United States).
STEL: 6 ppm 15 minute(s).
DIETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOBUTYL ETHER;
2-(2-butoxyethoxy)-ethanol; butyl carbitol
112-34-5 1 - 5 Manufacturer (United States).
TWA: 35 ppm 8 hour(s).
DIPROPYLENE GLYCOL N-BUTYL ETHER; 1-(2-
butoxy-1-methoxy)- 2-propanol; glycol ether dpnb
29911-28-2 1 - 5 Not established

The columns on their pdf don't come out right, but basically it is ingredients/ case number (internal info?)/percent by weight/exposure limits, but after the ingredients just ignore this.

I see a couple of things, but just putting this out there. Not saying it means anything as I am sure these are common elements of many cleaners. Interesting though that LE did take this from the home the same day the body was found.

 

[RR0004]

The trimethalymine is the worst thing in the Crystal lite bottle. It can drop you dead.




OSHA sets the safe limit on this stuff at 5 ppm (that aint squat). After that you have to have a respirator if you're going to be working in it for any length of time.

Is that the correct spelling, Valhall?

Ok...got it. Anyway to distinguish it from this?

trimethylamine A nitrogenous compound, (CH3)3N, that acts as an osmolyte in the cells of the kidney. This compound can also be converted to trimethylamine oxide, which is excreted by many marine fish and gives them their characteristic odour.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O6-trimethylamine.html

 

[USARDOG]

Perhaps NG has the correct scenario, but the wrong chemical elements. Perhaps Caylee was killed with a mixture of cleaning products, not Chloroform. Could be she was not skilled enough to make Chloroform?

 

[RR0004]

From things taken from the Anthony Home
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/4359374...-Office-Evidence-Property-Forms--02-18-09_001
Item 64 taken from Storage shed.


Zep degreaser ingredient from their site for the one that has citris scent

http://www.zepcommercial.com/msds/ZUCIT.pdf

D-LIMONENE - orange distillate; citrus terpene;
cyclohexene, 1-methyl-4-(1-methylethenyl)-, (R)-
5989-27-5 1 - 5 Not established
MONOETHANOLAMINE; 2-aminoethanol; MEA 141-43-5 1 - 5 OSHA PEL / ACGIH TLV
(United States).
TWA: 3 ppm 8 hour(s).
OSHA /ACGIH (United States).
STEL: 6 ppm 15 minute(s).
DIETHYLENE GLYCOL MONOBUTYL ETHER;
2-(2-butoxyethoxy)-ethanol; butyl carbitol
112-34-5 1 - 5 Manufacturer (United States).
TWA: 35 ppm 8 hour(s).
DIPROPYLENE GLYCOL N-BUTYL ETHER; 1-(2-
butoxy-1-methoxy)- 2-propanol; glycol ether dpnb
29911-28-2 1 - 5 Not established

The columns on their pdf don't come out right, but basically it is ingredients/ case number (internal info?)/percent by weight/exposure limits, but after the ingredients just ignore this.

I see a couple of things, but just putting this out there. Not saying it means anything as I am sure these are common elements of many cleaners. Interesting though that LE did take this from the home the same day the body was found.

Well, let's remember they had the can from July 16th. Didn't they also take pesticides (insecticides?) of some sort as well? Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[butwhatif?]

Lots of solvents and cleaners listed. I am going to study this list more when I get home. But I had a thought today about testosterone and syringes. I have read that meth users who are still sexually active use testosterone to counteract the ill effects of meth on their male "working parts." Do any of these chemicals come from meth ingredients? I see a few cigarette ingredients in this list but I am not familiar enough with meth to know how it's made or what chemicals its ingredients break down into.

Great info. I am excited to look these chemicals and compounds up and think more about them.

BBM-
Hmmmm...interesting. Wonder if they are found in chewing tobacco too?
Anyone remember the brand found in the trash?
Or ashing cigs in the crystal light could explain several of these chems being detected i guess.
Just thinking out loud.

599 (of 4000+) ingredients added to cigarettes-
http://www.tobacco.org/Resources/599ingredients.html

 

[Valhall]

Is that the correct spelling, Valhall?

Ok...got it. Anyway to distinguish it from this?

trimethylamine A nitrogenous compound, (CH3)3N, that acts as an osmolyte in the cells of the kidney. This compound can also be converted to trimethylamine oxide, which is excreted by many marine fish and gives them their characteristic odour.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O6-trimethylamine.html

Here you go:

http://www.vngas.com/pdf/g83.pdf

 

[USARDOG]

Well, let's remember they had the can from July 16th. Didn't they also take pesticides (insecticides?) of some sort as well? Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, I remember them walking out of the garage carrying a couple of those big pressure sprayers that dispense pesticides.

 

[QuietStorm]

I actually looked into what was needed for the "shake and bake" meth process and it's just not coming up right. I looked at the contents of both the Gatorade bottle and the Crystal lite bottle and neither one seem to hit right.

Another reason I was wondering: the reference to urine. I was going to rent a house once, but the smell of urine was very strong in the living room. Could have been a pet, but I was told that the smell of urine is another sign of meth use or production.

Thanks for the response.

 

[USARDOG]

Suppose if you will, the killer did not understand that Chloroform could kill, but only used it to render Caylee unconscious Then, administered a solution of cleaners and pesticides as the fatal dose.

 

[Valhall]

Another reason I was wondering: the reference to urine. I was going to rent a house once, but the smell of urine was very strong in the living room. Could have been a pet, but I was told that the smell of urine is another sign of meth use or production.

Thanks for the response.

Maybe it's an incomplete batch. And I'm being serious. There is no lithium, or presence of lye. Maybe it's the "stock". Wonder if shake and bakers run around with a "rue" of sorts.

 

[RR0004]

Yes, I remember them walking out of the garage carrying a couple of those big pressure sprayers that dispense pesticides.

They obviously knew what they were looking for.

 

[TakeNote]

i dont want to go off topic....but i keep thinking of those tiny holes on the side ends of the duct tape..........injection sites? in the neck?

 

[carrie]

I havent even looked at the crystal light info yet, so I have no idea how it factors in.
Was it in the disney bag with the syringe? TIA

No, it was from the trash bag taken from KC's car.

 

[USARDOG]

Just my opinion, but I don't think GA or CA would ever allow meth production in their home, and I haven't heard any evidence that KC or any of her friends were involved with meth. Further, the chemicals involved smell, and KC would not be able to get away with hiding them in her room, IMO.

I don't think meth has any role in this killing.

 

[carrie]

The trimethalymine is the worst thing in the Crystal lite bottle. It can drop you dead.




OSHA sets the safe limit on this stuff at 5 ppm (that aint squat). After that you have to have a respirator if you're going to be working in it for any length of time.

Is this chemical easily obtained? Would it be present in some typical/common household cleaners? Or would one have to go out of one's way to get it?

 

[carrie]

Suppose if you will, the killer did not understand that Chloroform could kill, but only used it to render Caylee unconscious Then, administered a solution of cleaners and pesticides as the fatal dose.

This is probably horrible to say, but here goes anyway.

The problem I see with this scenario is that there are so many easier ways to kill a two year old child. KC seems like the type to take the easiest and most convenient route (like smothering, just as an example).

 

[MD MOMMY]

They obviously knew what they were looking for.

If they took all that stuff the day Caylee was found, I wonder what tipped them off to take that stuff? It's not like the lab results were back b/c the items in question were just found. Hm..I'm sure someone has some insight.

 

[TakeNote]

This is probably horrible to say, but here goes anyway.

The problem I see with this scenario is that there are so many easier ways to kill a two year old child. KC seems like the type to take the easiest and most convenient route (like smothering, just as an example).

i was thinking the same thing.....unless she was trying to frame someone else......then she would need something to link that person to the crime.....

having that cyrstal light bottle left in a bag from TonE's house....left in the trunk of the car....car left at amscott.....hmmm....

just thinking out loud here