Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #2

[jandkmom]

I'm sure I read that she smoked and think it was in the phone transcripts.. I have also read she was a non smoker, but I think she may have smoked some times socialy. I will try to find where it mentions she did.

I was in one of the transcripts with TL's roomate. He said that during the time that Tony was in class that KC started smoking at night with them. He sounded like she was trying to pretend that it was her first time, but that he didn't seem to believe it.

 

[BeanE]

In regards to KC smoking, I thought I had read that she smoked a cigar. I'm still trying to find something in writing about it, but meanwhile I found this picture of her. I have no idea how to determine if this cigar is lit, and if she's actually smoking it, or just posing with it for the picture. (Which is why I'm trying to find something in writing that someone might have said about seeing her smoke.)

 

[Valhall]

In light of the fact Tony Pipitone has confirmed what all the uber-brains on this thread came up with...

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21576734/detail.html

down to the order of magnitude estimates made here. I'd just like to say it really is neat to hang with a bunch of folks that work toward "the facts" instead of toward hyperbole and sensationalism.

Let's all have a back-slapping party later! I'll bring the keg!

 

[3doglady]

I was in one of the transcripts with TL's roomate. He said that during the time that Tony was in class that KC started smoking at night with them. He sounded like she was trying to pretend that it was her first time, but that he didn't seem to believe it.

I think you may be talking about Cameron Campina. He was talking about KC smoking pot in a pipe. pg 5 http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18974300/detail.html

 

[cecybeans]

Quiet Storm - these could not be gasoline additives could they? I keep thinking about KC stealing gas every ten seconds.

There is something so hinky here - to me it all looks like a plant. Let's face it, KC didn't even need duct tape to kill Caylee - she could have done it with her bare hands. And if duct tape was actual COD, why did she need a syringe and a deadly cocktail? What if that was done to set someone up and the Disney bag with syringe was originally in the black plastic bag with Caylee? KC could have put that together on the 18th, when she backed into the garage. I just don't see this as a recreational mix of any kind and whoever did it went to great trouble to make sure the needle was sealed off from the elements, ie: preserved for evidence.

(This just reminds me of the computer searches - none of the subjects researched were necessary to kill a toddler, but all of them would work well on an adult.)

If she did, I think there are three possibilities; a) she stole the needle from a friend (we all know who); b) she took the needle from home and the chemicals from home (perhaps the foodstuff is traces from Gatorade liquid) or c) she took the needle from a tattoo parlor friend hoping it would lead back to ZFG.

Frankly I think the second option makes more sense - get rid of her parents by framing them so she could inherit the house. It would certainly explain the body being right down the street. And she may have put this together a day or two later thinking she might need to CYA her CMA. Something about this just looks odd odd odd to me.

 

[Mendara]

She may have been trying to put together a deadly cocktail for Caylee and failed - then killed Caylee in a different manner- using the duct tape to keep her quiet and dumped everything together in the woods. This can explain the little chloroform found in each instance - she may have not done it correctly. The disney bag is important - I hope there is a connection to the A's home and that bag.

JMO

 

[Harmony 2]

Quiet Storm - these could not be gasoline additives could they? I keep thinking about KC stealing gas every ten seconds.

There is something so hinky here - to me it all looks like a plant. Let's face it, KC didn't even need duct tape to kill Caylee - she could have done it with her bare hands. And if duct tape was actual COD, why did she need a syringe and a deadly cocktail? What if that was done to set someone up and the Disney bag with syringe was originally in the black plastic bag with Caylee? KC could have put that together on the 18th, when she backed into the garage. I just don't see this as a recreational mix of any kind and whoever did it went to great trouble to make sure the needle was sealed off from the elements, ie: preserved for evidence.

(This just reminds me of the computer searches - none of the subjects researched were necessary to kill a toddler, but all of them would work well on an adult.)

If she did, I think there are three possibilities; a) she stole the needle from a friend (we all know who); b) she took the needle from home and the chemicals from home (perhaps the foodstuff is traces from Gatorade liquid) or c) she took the needle from a tattoo parlor friend hoping it would lead back to ZFG.

Frankly I think the second option makes more sense - get rid of her parents by framing them so she could inherit the house. It would certainly explain the body being right down the street. And she may have put this together a day or two later thinking she might need to CYA her CMA. Something about this just looks odd odd odd to me.

I vaguely recall in one of the search warrants of the Anthony home there was a list of medications taken. I remember looking at the medications Cindy takes. Does anyone else recall that or was it a dream LOL?

I wonder if the testosterone was listed on that search warrant?

ETA: OK it wasn't a dream... here is the thread with discussion about the medications... I am looking through it now...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78948&highlight=medications+search+warrants

 

[USARDOG]

....(If she did, I think there are three possibilities; a) she stole the needle from a friend (we all know who); b) she took the needle from home and the chemicals from home (perhaps the foodstuff is traces from Gatorade liquid) or c) she took the needle from a tattoo parlor friend hoping it would lead back to ZFG.

Frankly I think the second option makes more sense - get rid of her parents by framing them so she could inherit the house. It would certainly explain the body being right down the street. And she may have put this together a day or two later thinking she might need to CYA her CMA. Something about this just looks odd odd odd to me.

Edit for brevity.

By needle do you mean syringe and needle? A needle is of no value without a syringe. As to the needle coming from a tattoo parlor, I have never gotten a tattoo, and so could be wrong here, but I don't think they use the same kind of needles that are used on syringes. A shorte syringe needle is 5/8's. I think the tattoo places use special, and very short needles. Perhaps someone who has gotten a tattoo will post and provide this info.

If the needle relates to KC and I think it does, my best guess is it came from the A's house. I am thinking someone in that house hold is using Testoserone replacement.

 

[cecybeans]

I vaguely recall in one of the search warrants of the Anthony home there was a list of medications taken. I remember looking at the medications Cindy takes. Does anyone else recall that or was it a dream LOL?

I wonder if the testosterone was listed on that search warrant?

ETA: OK it wasn't a dream... here is the thread with discussion about the medications... I am looking through it now...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78948&highlight=medications+search+warrants

I don't see that hormones were on the warrant, but that is not to say that they were still in the home. When this search was done in December I am sure that many, many items were either replaced or gone.

 

[cecybeans]

Edit for brevity.

By needle do you mean syringe and needle? A needle is of no value without a syringe. As to the needle coming from a tattoo parlor, I have never gotten a tattoo, and so could be wrong here, but I don't think they use the same kind of needles that are used on syringes. A shorte syringe needle is 5/8's. I think the tattoo places use special, and very short needles. Perhaps someone who has gotten a tattoo will post and provide this info.

If the needle relates to KC and I think it does, my best guess is it came from the A's house. I am thinking someone in that house hold is using Testoserone replacement.

Yes, sorry, I meant a syringe. And I meant to imply that perhaps someone at a tattoo parlor had been indulging in hormonal "therapy" - not the actual needles used for tattoos. There is some other info on this thread or the earlier one that indicates why syringe-type needles might be found at a tattoo parlor, IIRC. I'll look for them.

 

[Mendara]

Can't you buy a needle and syringe? Or do you need a prescription? Does anyone in her circle have diabetes?

 

[Valhall]

All this chemistry stuff goes over my head, so while I was waiting to hear back from a chemist friend, I decided to google 'tobacco' along with each of the chemicals detected in the crystal light bottle individually.
And guess what?

Every single one on the list is associated with tobacco.

2-Butanol - Solvent, also converted to Butanone- Found in tobacco

methyl ethyl ketone - Solvent, denaturing agent, cleaning agent-Found in tobacco

Methyl Alcohol – Solvent- Found in tobacco

Disulfide, dimethyl - Insecticide - contributor of urine smell- Found in tobacco

P-cresol - Disinfectants, insecticides-Found in tobacco

Anisole - Aromatic in perfumes and insecticides-Added to tobacco for aroma

Methyl Isocyanide – Pesticides- Found in tobacco

cyclohexane, [(1-methylpropyl)thio]- - Fungicide, insecticide? Adds flavor to tobacco (eeeew!)

Trimethylamine - Manufacturing use. Main source of urine smell- Found in tobacco

Phenol - Antiseptic, herbicide- Found in tobacco

2-Nonanol, 5-ethyl- - Fungicide, insecticide?-Found in tobacco

Benzothiazole - Industrial use - binding agent?- Found in tobacco

1-Methoxycycloheptatriene - Use unknown, seems to be a neurotoxin-Found in tobacco

It's still unknown if all of these are added to Copenhagen specifically, but I don't think we'll ever know for sure since the tobacco industry does not want consumers to know of all the toxins they add.

If nothing else, it's a good reason for smokers and chewers to quit. Here we are discussing this lethal mixture and all of them are used in tobacco and consumed daily.

In my mind, I'm pretty much convinced now that the brown liquid was spit from the copenhagen, but I know others feel differently, and am still open to other ideas.

Am happy to provide links if requested, but right now I'm off to take my lil princess to the park. It's a beautiful day here.
JMO

I think websleuths has just busted another myth thanks to butwhatif. When I read this post I remembered I had a professor that I actually had twice for two different classes. In both classes on certain questions he would ask...

"Now, identify and classify the contents of a spit cup." As a cute comment to get you to thinking.

Considering this was a recurring question from him, I submitted this question to him:

"I'm coming to you, because I remember in both
classes I have taken under you, you stated a funny comment along the lines
of "okay, how would you classify the contents of a spit cup?"

I'm hoping you ask that because you already know the answer! So here's my
question.

You find an empty plastic pop bottle (i.e. empty of original contents)
and there is a brown fluid (let's say about an 1/8 of cup or less) in it
that has a smell of urine. So analytical returns this:

From the Crystal Light bottle:
2-Butanol
methyl ethyl ketone
Methyl Alcohol
Disulfide, dimethyl
P-cresol
Anisole
Methyl Isocyanide
cyclohexane, [(1-methylpropyl)thio]-
Trimethylamine
Phenol
2-Nonanol, 5-ethyl-
Benzothiazole
1-Methoxycycloheptatriene

So, of course, it's not urine...I guess the smell is coming from the
Trimethylamine. When I look at this list I see a lot of solvents, some
which could be used as propellants, but also, it appears a great deal of
these are used in the processing of tobacco.

My question: Is the contents of this bottle spit from a Copenhagen user?"

His response:

"Without researching the exact chemical composition Copenhagen spit versus any one of the other 40+ manufacturers of dip, my initial guess would be yes, this is a spit cup."

He went on to qualify himself as to why he has experience at this...He has provided guidance in cleaning up major league baseball stadiums after games. He says, on average, there's easily 100 to 200 spit cups that have to be properly handled from a waste disposal aspect.

So I think we've nailed another one!!!

I guess I'll get party hats to go with the keg.

 

[cloud9]

In light of the fact Tony Pipitone has confirmed what all the uber-brains on this thread came up with...

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21576734/detail.html

down to the order of magnitude estimates made here. I'd just like to say it really is neat to hang with a bunch of folks that work toward "the facts" instead of toward hyperbole and sensationalism.

Let's all have a back-slapping party later! I'll bring the keg!

WELL SAID!!! Thank you!

 

[Harmony 2]

I don't see that hormones were on the warrant, but that is not to say that they were still in the home. When this search was done in December I am sure that many, many items were either replaced or gone.

I agree!! Reading through that thread I noted that no prescriptions for George or Casey were taken and I find that extremely odd. :waitasec:

 

[Wudge]

WELL SAID!!! Thank you!

I can't imagine how Tony came to be aware that Nancy Grace told such a boldfaced lie.

"HLN cable news personality Nancy Grace stated on her show the syringe was “loaded” with chloroform, and legal analysts have called the chloroform discovery a “smoking gun” or otherwise damaging to the defense."

(snicker)

 

[JWG]

I can't imagine how Tony came to be aware that Nancy Grace told such a boldfaced lie.

"HLN cable news personality Nancy Grace stated on her show the syringe was “loaded” with chloroform, and legal analysts have called the chloroform discovery a “smoking gun” or otherwise damaging to the defense."

(snicker)

I sent him excerpts of the relevant portions of the documents on Saturday - the images of the plots I posted. He took those to a chemist, because he likes to check his facts first. Kind of old school, I guess.

 

[USARDOG]

Can't you buy a needle and syringe? Or do you need a prescription? Does anyone in her circle have diabetes?

I buy 100 at a time to use with my dogs, no prescription needed over the internet, and have bought boxes in feed stores also. Many pet owners, livestock and horse owners use them to treat their animals, so they are not hard to come by.

Of course this could all be a coincidence, but with the Disney bag being close to the place the body was recovered, I'm thinking it is related. If it were not in a Disney bag, but of course, it was.

 

[JWG]

I think websleuths has just busted another myth thanks to butwhatif. When I read this post I remembered I had a professor that I actually had twice for two different classes. In both classes on certain questions he would ask...

"Now, identify and classify the contents of a spit cup." As a cute comment to get you to thinking.

Considering this was a recurring question from him, I submitted this question to him:

"I'm coming to you, because I remember in both
classes I have taken under you, you stated a funny comment along the lines
of "okay, how would you classify the contents of a spit cup?"

I'm hoping you ask that because you already know the answer! So here's my
question.

You find an empty plastic pop bottle (i.e. empty of original contents)
and there is a brown fluid (let's say about an 1/8 of cup or less) in it
that has a smell of urine. So analytical returns this:

From the Crystal Light bottle:
2-Butanol
methyl ethyl ketone
Methyl Alcohol
Disulfide, dimethyl
P-cresol
Anisole
Methyl Isocyanide
cyclohexane, [(1-methylpropyl)thio]-
Trimethylamine
Phenol
2-Nonanol, 5-ethyl-
Benzothiazole
1-Methoxycycloheptatriene

So, of course, it's not urine...I guess the smell is coming from the
Trimethylamine. When I look at this list I see a lot of solvents, some
which could be used as propellants, but also, it appears a great deal of
these are used in the processing of tobacco.

My question: Is the contents of this bottle spit from a Copenhagen user?"

His response:

"Without researching the exact chemical composition Copenhagen spit versus any one of the other 40+ manufacturers of dip, my initial guess would be yes, this is a spit cup."

He went on to qualify himself as to why he has experience at this...He has provided guidance in cleaning up major league baseball stadiums after games. He says, on average, there's easily 100 to 200 spit cups that have to be properly handled from a waste disposal aspect.

So I think we've nailed another one!!!

I guess I'll get party hats to go with the keg.

Makes sense...because the chemicals did not line up at all with the trunk odor. Good thing too, because Cindy would have claimed one of TL's friends spit in the trunk, causing it to smell like a dead body.

 

[legalmania]

I'm starting to wonder if this even had anything to do with Casey and Caylee there was tropical storm Fay with 50 mile an hour winds and up to 30 inches of rain, can it be proved that the bottle didn't float in from somewhere else? Remember there was some clothes and I think a backpack found, I can't remember if these were linked to Casey or Caylee. It's just a thought.

http://www.mahalo.com/hurricane-fay-projected-path

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb6JBuD6HF0"]YouTube- CAYLEE ANTHONY BODY FOUND IN WOODED AREA JUST BLOCKS FROM THE ANTHONY HOME[/ame]

 

[cecybeans]

I'm starting to wonder if this even had anything to do with Casey and Caylee there was tropical storm Fay with 50 mile an hour winds and up to 30 inches of rain, can it be proved that the bottle didn't float in from somewhere else? Remember there was some clothes and I think a backpack found, I can't remember if these were linked to Casey or Caylee. It's just a thought.

http://www.mahalo.com/hurricane-fay-projected-path

YouTube- CAYLEE ANTHONY BODY FOUND IN WOODED AREA JUST BLOCKS FROM THE ANTHONY HOME

It did rain heavily, but the 30 inches was in places nearer the east coast. Yes, there was also strong wind, but I would think that the dense foliage would have protected some of the garbage on the ground, particularly in that specific area. What will be interesting is if the forensic botany types have done studies on the bag to see if it shows it was there as long as the remains. Another possibility is that the Disney bag could have initially been inside the garbage bag (if there is indeed a connection) and was not subject to the elements of Fay at the time.