Teachers Pay To Be Based On Students' Test Scores

[Lynni]

Thank you very much! I knew my post was long but felt I really had something to say!

Another point, they do evaluations of teachers, but in my district,they have to give the teachers a certain number of hours notice before they can come in and do an observation for an evaluation. Kind of defeats the purpose of an objective observation. Who wouldn't be on their best behavior when you know the minute of the hour the principal is going to watch you! In order for myself to get an objective eval, I tried my hardest to just be myself and teach and run my room the usual way without trying to be fancy for the principal. That's the best way to get honest feedback about how I could improve.

I have to add that I did resign from teaching after I got the child who screamed all the time. I had lost my edge and was really struggling to give my classroom 100% of myself. I didn't enjoy teaching as much as I had in the past. I had always told myself that once I could no longer give 100%, I would resign so I did. It wouldn't be fair to the kids. Teachers do have the power to affect kids' lives negatively or positively. I didn't want kids to dislike school because of me.

 

[lynie]

Hi :blowkiss: Lynni and all!!

I also worry about the schools in the district that are hard to teach because of migrant families...dysfunctional families...located in lower social/economic areas. What kind of teacher is going to want to teach in a school with a high
mobility rate? So you are going to have the cream of the crop teachers trying to get jobs in the cream of the crop school...there are only so many martyrs in the world that don't need the $$ to pay off student loans!

 

[KatherineQ]

I feel both ways about this. Apparently the plan is a bonus, up to 3K per year. So it's not like the whole salary is based on performance -

On the other hand, I have a child who struggles with tests, he's a sweet bright guy, and teachers love to have him in their classes. He's cooperative, enthusiastic, and excels on some areas and sucks at math. ;D I would hate for teachers to dread getting him because he doesn't score well in math, no matter how hard he or the teacher try. He doesn't get math easily. Period.

And my sister teaches algebra in Houston. This year, they've been really hard hit by Katrina evacuees, and she had to fail more kids than she ever imagined this fall. What can you do? You can't pass kids who don't get algebra at all. She's a great teacher, the katrina evacuees by and large failed her math classes. Stress and trauma and maybe a bad math foundation from the New Orleans school district, who knows.

There's a teacher at my son's school whose classes always score markedly higher than other classes, due to excellent teaching, in my opinion. It would be great to see that teacher get a whopping bonus for doing such a great job.

*shrug* pros and cons

 

[Marthatex]

My sister teaches high school math in a poorer area, and she received alot of Katrina victims as she is teaching some remedial classes. Unfortunately there was a huge gap between the Texas students and the Katrina victims, from Lousiana I assume. It has been a very difficult situation for the entire school. You can't just "catch kids up" in a half-year's time, or even a year; when they haven't had a good background and are way behind.

Education is a cumulative thing.

I feel sorry for my sister - she gave up being an Attorney after 12 years, thought she might enjoy teaching math (she has aMasters in Math), and is now in her first year of teaching and it's no piece of cake.

 

[SewingDeb]

I think this would force the teachers to "teach to the test" even more than they do now.

That's what I'm thinking.

 

[Lynni]

Hi Lynie, same to you! I was going to post that same smiley, but I can't find it! BTW, I like your name!! And I think you're right-the best teachers would get the best jobs... etc.

School is really such an odd thing-we've all been to it so we all have experience with it. But what we base our opinions on a lot of the times is according to that experience. I loved school. I went to the "worst" school in our city, very low income, very tough kids. Imagine my surpise when I ran into one of my teachers 20 years later (her husband works for my husband now-how odd!!). Anyway, she said the class she had me in was so hard, she hated to come to work everyday. I loved it, thought it was a fun class. She had a completely different opinion.

My mentoring teacher when I was student teaching was one of the worst I've ever encountered. All she did all day long was run back & forth to the lounge and eat. She made her aides do all the grading, report cards, teaching and even writing lesson plans. Needless to say, she went through aides more rapidly than I change my socks. She had tenure so they couldn't get rid of her and the principals tried to get her to do a better job, but it was fruitless. She barely taught me anything. She was way more concerned with how she looked- "Don't you think I look young? Don't you think I'm in great shape?"
I got a really good sped job right after I graduated, but felt sooo unprepared for it. She was a horrible teacher and an awful mentoring teacher. And you're only supposed to get one student teacher per year, but she got one every semester (we figured it was to carry her-so the students had someone to teach them besides the aides). Anyway, a few years ago she won a very prestigous award. She must've sucked up to the right people. I was astonished that that half wit could actually win anything she was so incompetent. So the community and parents thought she was wonderful, but the rest of us in the trenches knew better. It made me lose my faith in those awards, I'll tell you that.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I watched 20/20 tonight and learned in other countries the amount spent to educate a child is attached to the child. There is competition because children's parents get to chose the school. No monopoly, no tenure, makes for a far better system and education. Crappy teachers get fired.
Even the poorer countries out scored American kids...buy a lot! Here a child must attend school in their own zone or district, rotten teachers make as much as the excellent ones.

 

[Becba]

The teachers at my kids schools were often the dumbest people I have met.

It doesn't take much to be a teacher and if you become one you should know what you are teaching.

Once a child puked in my sons 10th grade class. The teacher said don't touch it or put it in your mouth because it has diseases. My son said "It's vomit, who's gonna eat it?"
Another teacher that is a close friend teaches 5th grade. On the weekends she helped at her husbands store. She could not use a cash register or even make change. She also could not spell.

 

[Taximom]

I'm fortunate that all the teachers affecting our family's life have been very smart, caring people. They work hard and don't get credit for all the hours most of them put in. When YOU leave work, you leave your work on your desk. Teachers take it home and work on it for hours.:clap:

I'm sure there are some bad apples (no pun intended!), but our family has truly been blessed and we make sure they know it.

We even pray for them! Once I prayed with my then-kindergartner that his teacher would be "well rested". After we finished he looked up at me and said he didn't want his teacher arrested!

If this program is indeed a bonus-type deal, then that's not so bad. You saying thank you to your child's teacher once in a while would probably mean a lot more to them than a bonus though. :twocents:

 

[ellen13]

The teachers at my kids schools were often the dumbest people I have met.

It doesn't take much to be a teacher and if you become one you should know what you are teaching.

Once a child puked in my sons 10th grade class. The teacher said don't touch it or put it in your mouth because it has diseases. My son said "It's vomit, who's gonna eat it?"
Another teacher that is a close friend teaches 5th grade. On the weekends she helped at her husbands store. She could not use a cash register or even make change. She also could not spell.

Some of the parents of kids I've taught were some of the dumbest people I've ever met. A lot of parents these days don't teach discipline or respect to their kids. It's reflected in our society. Or, the parents were in big time denial about their perfect little angels. I've learned the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Let's face it, parents don't need any college or high school for that matter to become a parent. It took me eight years to become a teacher-5 years of college (including one year of student teaching) and 3 years to obtain a master's degree, which I chose to do because teachers are required every year to get credits for continuing education, as are doctors and then the experience of many years in the classroom and a Teacher of the Year award.
And most interesting, it was the parents of kids who came from other countries who had the most respect for the teacher and the children with the best discipline.
I think the bottom line is this:
Teachers don't want to be generalized as dumb or it doesn't take much to become a teacher.
Parents don't want to be generalized either.
Every teacher, child, and parent is unique. I think we'd all (including you as the parent and us as the teacher) like the respect we deserve and I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your child's teachers. It's not always like that everywhere.

 

[ellen13]

I'm fortunate that all the teachers affecting our family's life have been very smart, caring people. They work hard and don't get credit for all the hours most of them put in. When YOU leave work, you leave your work on your desk. Teachers take it home and work on it for hours.:clap:

I'm sure there are some bad apples (no pun intended!), but our family has truly been blessed and we make sure they know it.

We even pray for them! Once I prayed with my then-kindergartner that his teacher would be "well rested". After we finished he looked up at me and said he didn't want his teacher arrested!

If this program is indeed a bonus-type deal, then that's not so bad. You saying thank you to your child's teacher once in a while would probably mean a lot more to them than a bonus though. :twocents:

Taximom,
I think you have truly grasped how hard teachers work!! Your child's teachers must have sensed your appreciation, which made them want to work even harder! We all want to feel validated in what we're doing!

 

[ellen13]

In addition, I don't believe in the incentive pay for test scores. I think

admin. needs to do a better job at finding quality people, if poor quality

teachers are the case.

 

[Mr. E]

It doesn't take much to be a teacher and if you become one you should know what you are teaching.

What do you mean? Teachers have to go to college. There are three tests called the Praxis tests a teacher must pass. The first one is taken in order to be accepted into the ed school; the second is taken near graduation; the third is taken within the first three years of teaching. That third Praxis test was one of the hardest tests I've ever taken.

If you are National Board Certified, that requires more testing.

Teachers are required to keep up with their certificate, taking classes and tests to stay current.

In some states, teachers must go through a mentoring program during their first two years of teaching. The first year involves teaching alone but having a mentor -- meeting with him/her, being evaluated, etc. Also, a first year teacher might have to take some sort of "induction" class to prepare them for teaching. Sort of like going to college to learn what you should know, then going to the induction class to find out how it is in the real world while at the same time experiencing the real world first hand. The second year involves a rigorous evaluation process in which the teacher is evaluated on a regular basis by a team of master teachers. This is the year of hell and almost made me quit teaching.

Oh, and about evaluations. In many schools, including the one where I teach, a teacher should be prepared to be evaluated at any time. I have had my principal and any one of the many assistant principals walk into my classroom and sit through a lesson. They write up my evaluation, then I get a copy, they get a copy, and a copy goes to the superintendent. All teachers should expect at least one monthly evaluation.

I think it takes quite a lot to become a teacher. And to stay a teacher, especially in today's classrooms (I have had more than one seasoned teacher tell me that if she were to go into teaching today, she wouldn't stay).

You want to know how to raise standards in the classroom, to bring the best of the best into the teaching profession (many of the best teachers quickly go for that administration position to get out of the classroom and make more money)? Pay teachers like the professionals they are instead of the unbelievably low salaries they get now. Treat them (and teach your children to treat them) with the respect they have earned through years and years of service, rather than calling them dumb and worthless. If you talk about how dumb the teachers at your kids' school are, how do you think your children will see them? How do you expect your child to sit in class and willingly learn from a person his/her own parent openly has no respect for?

 

[deanws]

The teachers at my kids schools were often the dumbest people I have met.

It doesn't take much to be a teacher and if you become one you should know what you are teaching.

Once a child puked in my sons 10th grade class. The teacher said don't touch it or put it in your mouth because it has diseases. My son said "It's vomit, who's gonna eat it?"
Another teacher that is a close friend teaches 5th grade. On the weekends she helped at her husbands store. She could not use a cash register or even make change. She also could not spell.

Excuse me? Doesn't take much to become a teacher? What rock are you living under!?!?!!? It takes 4-5 years to become a teacher depending on what state you live in. Most school districts push you to get your master's degree as well. I think you should learn a little about the degree required for becoming a teacher before you say stuff like this! Just because you can do first grade math doesn't mean you are qualified to teach it.:loser: :loser:

 

[deanws]

What do you mean? Teachers have to go to college. There are three tests called the Praxis tests a teacher must pass. The first one is taken in order to be accepted into the ed school; the second is taken near graduation; the third is taken within the first three years of teaching. That third Praxis test was one of the hardest tests I've ever taken.

If you are National Board Certified, that requires more testing.

Teachers are required to keep up with their certificate, taking classes and tests to stay current.

In some states, teachers must go through a mentoring program during their first two years of teaching. The first year involves teaching alone but having a mentor -- meeting with him/her, being evaluated, etc. Also, a first year teacher might have to take some sort of "induction" class to prepare them for teaching. Sort of like going to college to learn what you should know, then going to the induction class to find out how it is in the real world while at the same time experiencing the real world first hand. The second year involves a rigorous evaluation process in which the teacher is evaluated on a regular basis by a team of master teachers. This is the year of hell and almost made me quit teaching.

Oh, and about evaluations. In many schools, including the one where I teach, a teacher should be prepared to be evaluated at any time. I have had my principal and any one of the many assistant principals walk into my classroom and sit through a lesson. They write up my evaluation, then I get a copy, they get a copy, and a copy goes to the superintendent. All teachers should expect at least one monthly evaluation.

I think it takes quite a lot to become a teacher. And to stay a teacher, especially in today's classrooms (I have had more than one seasoned teacher tell me that if she were to go into teaching today, she wouldn't stay).

You want to know how to raise standards in the classroom, to bring the best of the best into the teaching profession (many of the best teachers quickly go for that administration position to get out of the classroom and make more money)? Pay teachers like the professionals they are instead of the unbelievably low salaries they get now. Treat them (and teach your children to treat them) with the respect they have earned through years and years of service, rather than calling them dumb and worthless. If you talk about how dumb the teachers at your kids' school are, how do you think your children will see them? How do you expect your child to sit in class and willingly learn from a person his/her own parent openly has no respect for?

Great post! I almost fell out of the chair when I read that some don't think it takes "much" to become a teacher. :doh: I taught for 20 years. It took me 7 years to pay back my student loans. Dang...ya mean I could have taught without a degree? I guess some parents must be a lot smarter than I am. I did it the hard way...spent several years at college studying. :hand: What was I thinking? Geeze...LMAO

 

[deanws]

I watched 20/20 tonight and learned in other countries the amount spent to educate a child is attached to the child. There is competition because children's parents get to chose the school. No monopoly, no tenure, makes for a far better system and education. Crappy teachers get fired.
Even the poorer countries out scored American kids...buy a lot! Here a child must attend school in their own zone or district, rotten teachers make as much as the excellent ones.

Linda...in case a TEACHER forgot to tell you this...I will. YOU are responsible also for the education of your child. It is a three way partnership between the teacher, parents and the student. If any one of these people are not doing their job...the whole system falls short of achieving the best results. It isn't just the "crappy" teachers that are responsible for our low scores. Also, not all countries educate ALL of their children. In America...EVERY child has the right to an education, and we do our best to provide them with one. As long as you are promoting us getting paid for our student's progress....I think it is only fair that we get to pick the children by meeting their parents. This would tell us a lot about the kind of year we were going to have and how well the students were going to perform.

 

[Taximom]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
(so how many smilies am I allowed to post?!)

http://www.needlenookoflajolla.com/designers/petei/images/744-love-teachers.jpg (since I couldn't post the pic)

 

[deanws]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
(so how many smilies am I allowed to post?!)

http://www.needlenookoflajolla.com/designers/petei/images/744-love-teachers.jpg (since I couldn't post the pic)

Thank you! I loved my kiddos too! I didn't care if they were the gifted or the learning disabled...I loved them all. All I wanted was a kiddo who wanted to learn, and took joy and pride in their accomplishments. A step for one child...is the same as a leap for another child. I expected each child to do their best. After all, we all want to be loved and respected for our efforts. Kids need to hear that we respect their best. It is what the love of learning is all about.:angel:

 

[Ntegrity]

Mr. E, this post says it all. Brilliant. :clap: :clap:

 

[Marthatex]

Obviously Mr. E knows about teachers and teacher training.

Being a teacher takes skilll, organization and the patience of Jobe. She or he has to be very flexible; sometimes the best laid plans go awry, because of "cut-up" kids, a bad day, or some children who simply have not gotten the foundation necessary for your grade, so you have to start all over with them.

A teacher must have a very good knowledge of curriculum, psychology, child development or any subject he/she teaches. They are under alot of pressure to perform and can be evaluated on a whim. Around here, the poor teachers are weeded out.

THEIR PAY IS THE WORST OF ALL PROFESSIONALS. That is why many leave. For myself, the relationship I have had with children and many parents has made it all worthwhile. I wouldn't trade teaching for anything. But teachers shouldn't be doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They deserve more. Around here at least, the parents are very good and supportive of the teachers.