Tech Forensics, computers cel phones, texts,

[SherlockHomey]

It seems we have all the SWs from the search of the home so I am assuming there was no data recovered in the form of computers. They probably ditched them OR gave them to someone they trust or have something they can hold over their head. MOO

 

[tlcya]

I too think they ditched them. Don't they know that LE can still get alot about their online activities by simply subpoena'ing the records of the sites they likely visited?? Notice we saw plently of those listed in search warrants.

ETA no, I do not think we are dealing with folks smart enough to realize that.

Also on another subject - anyone want to lay odds on whether LE has been reading RBF's little Q & A session on WS? Pretty sure there will be some things stated there that they will be able to impeach via his phone records and a little poking into his online activities if what is stated in SW is true about ongoing contact between him and EB

 

[SherlockHomey]

Per Hickory Daily Record today:

Police said because Elisa had lied about her relationship with Young and because of the GPS and cell tower locations of their cell phones on Sept. 25, they think it is important to obtain Young’s phone records as it “will likely provide information substantially related to this homicide investigation.”

BBM

. Aaron Young was contacted to comment for this story, but did not return phone calls.

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/...baker-had-ongoing-relationship-ex--ar-677965/

 

[tlcya]

I am very anxious to learn not only about the telltale pings on the 25 (day EB says remains were dumped and pings suggest she was in those areas) but also the number and frequency of phone calls and texts between them.

 

[Hickory Born]

In one of EB's post (maybe MS,I can't remember) it said posted by "Mobile." I don't have one of those fancy phones, but my children do and they use them for emails all the time instead of computers.

For some reason I thought the first set of warrants, regarding the house and cars, listed a computer. Can anyone find those warrants, they would have been at the very beginning of the investigation.

 

[Flakes]

I have some questions about mobile phones in the region we're discussing. Can anyone enlighten me please?

I noticed that a large number of phones were confiscated from the AB/EB residence, and there have been 2 (that I know of) phone numbers investigated that belonged, or seemed to belong, to EB.

– How practical and affordable is it to have multiple mobile phones and accounts?
– Do numbers/accounts require a plan?
– Can you buy prepaid SIM cards for a phone?
– What information is required to obtain a legal phone/plan/pre-paid SIM?
– Is there a big business in black market mobiles or SIM cards?

Reasons I ask:
In Australia we have the following:
– Mobile phones supplied with a plan - eg 18 months or 24 months plan @ $ per month which includes the phone. If you lose phone in that time you still have to pay the $ per month (or whatever agreed to amount which is often $300-ish/month). Most individuals choose this system.
– Plan for existing phone. You are just given the SIM card. Costs exactly the same as a plan with new phone, so everyone chooses to accept the offer of an updated phone. If you lose the SIM card you pay out the plan until the duration is up. Generally people give the old phone to someone with an older model phone who's still stuck on an older plan, or hand in for metal/plastic recycling.
– Pre-paid SIM card which you pay a monthly fee for. Typically approx $30 a month for total calls and SMS, after which you can only receive calls and SMS but not send. This is available either with a new phone (cheaper model so usually a couple of hundred dollars outlay at the start). You can also use an older phone that you already own. A monthly top-up payment is required. This system is used by parents of children who don't want to risk the child amassing hundreds of $ in calls over their plan limit, and by adults on a very strict budget.

All these plans and SIM cards require you to present a range of forms of ID: for example
– driver's license
– banking info (for auto debits)
– name/address/landline or other mobile # for cross referencing your payment history, etc
– employment details
– etc.
They will do a credit check on you before agreeing to the plan/pre-paid.
If you are a minor then the adult in charge is responsible for this information at purchase.

So, in Australia there are strict procedures in place to supply a mobile phone/SIM card on either a plan or pre-paid. You cannot walk in and walk out without providing such information. This way everything is traceable regarding primary ownership of the phone/plan.

Plans (the most common choice) are generally quite costly, so people generally only have one phone (plus occasionally an additional work phone).

I have no idea how the system works in the region where EB and AB lived. It may explain what I consider to be an unusual number of operational phones in EB's possession. I gather she had a Blackberry in addition to the two phones? Or was this one of the numbers?

Thanks!

 

[Peliman]

I have some questions about mobile phones in the region we're discussing. Can anyone enlighten me please?

I noticed that a large number of phones were confiscated from the AB/EB residence, and there have been 2 (that I know of) phone numbers investigated that belonged, or seemed to belong, to EB.

– How practical and affordable is it to have multiple mobile phones and accounts?

Not always practical but sometimes necessary, I've carried both a plan phone and pre-paid phone because when traveling one provided coverage to an area the other phone received no signal.

– Do numbers/accounts require a plan?

No, a plan is a contract (usually two years) detailing the type of services one agrees to. One can also add phones to a plan for family members or friends for an additional fee.

Pre-paid is just that, you pay in advance for minutes. If you don't top off or pay, service is discontinued, no foul, no credit check. One may need to register the phone for activation and to purchase additional minutes, obtain a phone number etc. Additional minutes can be purchased in stores in the local areas. Run out of minutes, you run out of service.

– Can you buy prepaid SIM cards for a phone?

Complex answer, you can buy the phone from the service provider or retail outlets, department stores. Most come with sim cards in the phone but the phone is generally locked for use by that service provider only. Some phones can be unlocked, some sims are built in hardware. Sims can be purchased on Ebay. If I can unlock a phone, I can use most service providers network by inserting their sim card.

– What information is required to obtain a legal phone/plan/pre-paid SIM?

On a plan, everything you stated. On a prepaid, well your key word is legal here. No credit info required, no pay, no service.

Is there a big business in black market mobiles or SIM cards?

Hmm, they are sold on Ebay regularly.

Reasons I ask:
In Australia we have the following:
– Mobile phones supplied with a plan - eg 18 months or 24 months plan @ $ per month which includes the phone. If you lose phone in that time you still have to pay the $ per month (or whatever agreed to amount which is often $300-ish/month). Most individuals choose this system.

Yes, plans require a time contract. Pre-paids do not.

– Plan for existing phone. You are just given the SIM card. Costs exactly the same as a plan with new phone, so everyone chooses to accept the offer of an updated phone. If you lose the SIM card you pay out the plan until the duration is up. Generally people give the old phone to someone with an older model phone who's still stuck on an older plan, or hand in for metal/plastic recycling.[/quote]

Yes, so someone has agreed to a term of 18-24 months.

– Pre-paid SIM card which you pay a monthly fee for. Typically approx $30 a month for total calls and SMS, after which you can only receive calls and SMS but not send. This is available either with a new phone (cheaper model so usually a couple of hundred dollars outlay at the start). You can also use an older phone that you already own. A monthly top-up payment is required. This system is used by parents of children who don't want to risk the child amassing hundreds of $ in calls over their plan limit, and by adults on a very strict budget.

While they may send you a sims card, I believe you pay for the minutes. Here it is not required to top up. If you don't top up, it's no service. ( no foul) No yearly contract required, no credit checks.

All these plans and SIM cards require you to present a range of forms of ID: for example
– driver's license
– banking info (for auto debits)
– name/address/landline or other mobile # for cross referencing your payment history, etc
– employment details
– etc.
They will do a credit check on you before agreeing to the plan/pre-paid.
If you are a minor then the adult in charge is responsible for this information at purchase.

Pre-paid, some of this info is requested when activating the new phone.

So, in Australia there are strict procedures in place to supply a mobile phone/SIM card on either a plan or pre-paid. You cannot walk in and walk out without providing such information. This way everything is traceable regarding primary ownership of the phone/plan.

Check Oz Ebay for sims cards, most are already pre-registered. Curious if they are sold on Ebay there.

I have no idea how the system works in the region where EB and AB lived. It may explain what I consider to be an unusual number of operational phones in EB's possession. I gather she had a Blackberry in addition to the two phones? Or was this one of the numbers?

Yes, the blackberry was a plan phone she used with an assigned phone number. I think a couple phones they found were expired phones with no service.

Thanks!!!

Welcome, hope that helps our friends in Oz.

 

[Flakes]

Thank you Peliman for such a detailed response

Seems like it is considerably easier to acquire phones in the US than here.

We do have areas that have limited coverage (Australia being so HUGE and with expansive areas of limited inhabitance). Providers provide fractionally greater and lesser coverage, but they are pretty close, so we don't have the need for multiple phones for this purpose. Interesting difference.

Trading of phones on eBay - yes it occurs here, and you can also pick up cheap phones second-hand in pawn shops; generally you need to purchase a SIM in addition to this. Not a terribly popular way of acquiring mobiles though as they're generally free with plans. SIM cards are not generally sold alone on eBay here.

My main interest in this is because as well as the multiple phones seized from the home there were the two mobile numbers for EB and one for AB which were investigated. I find it a little strange that a woman with allegedly minimal funds would have the $ to maintain two mobile accounts (this is what I understand, though this may not be correct regarding her finances). Can we determine if these were plan based or pre-paid? You mentioned the blackberry was on a plan.

ie the number ending in 6664 (which matches EB's birth date, so I presume it was a requested number) and the second ending in 8536 (EB was identified as the "sender or receiver of the messages" in the search warrants).

 

[Peliman]

My main interest in this is because as well as the multiple phones seized from the home there were the two mobile numbers for EB and one for AB which were investigated. I find it a little strange that a woman with allegedly minimal funds would have the $ to maintain two mobile accounts (this is what I understand, though this may not be correct regarding her finances). Can we determine if these were plan based or pre-paid? You mentioned the blackberry was on a plan.

Welcome Flakes, I'm assuming the blackberry is a plan phone because of the expense to buy one outright without a plan and I don't think EB was credit worthy. She probably used her daughters info or it was an extra phone line on her daughters plan. I also suspect it was a plan phone because she was using it on a data service to make her postings to facebook.

ie the number ending in 6664 (which matches EB's birth date, so I presume it was a requested number) and the second ending in 8536 (EB was identified as the "sender or receiver of the messages" in the search warrants).

Yes, I agree it was probably a requested number. Without certified phone records I cant say with 100% certainty what her setup actually was. The 8536 number could be another phone or AB's phone. She only needed to access it to send messages.

Cheers

 

[Flakes]

...The 8536 number could be another phone or AB's phone. She only needed to access it to send messages.

Cheers

Again, thanks!

According to warrants it was EB's second mobile #. AB's mobile ends in 6874, so there were apparently 3 mobiles active between the couple. I guess LE* will have established if the other mobiles found had active SIM cards and if they had been used.

So EB was using the blackberry for internet postings? I would find it highly unlikely anyone could sustain prolonged, visually rich IMVU chats and activity on one ... even basic status updates on facebook are a hassle on an iPhone! So I presume there were also computers in their possession. As mentioned by other posters, I don't recall any warrants so far that mention removing any a computer from the household. I presume there are many and various items that would have been taken, and which presumably would appear on warrants that have not been released to the public.

– Does anyone know if outstanding warrants (ie that have not been publicly released) remain?
– Do all items taken require listing on papers such as those we have already seen?

*what does LE stand for? I presume it means the investigators?

 

[Flakes]

Another thought – there has been much speculation about whether AB accompanied EB to the locations for the alleged dumping of Zahra's body parts on the 25th Sept without his mobile (as it didn't identify him at those locations). No doubt it will have been quite easy for the investigators to trace the locations of his phone on that date (possibly workplace) which would then be cross-referenced with eye-witness accounts and records.

Same goes for the furniture store that EB and Zahra were seen at (and possibly another woman) on the 25th Sept ... surely EB's phone would identify her location. The warrants I have seen don't go back to that date; however, there may be other warrants for this earlier timeframe that we simply have not seen yet.

I feel it's all info that's released on a "need-to-know-basis" ... and we "the public" really have no need (apart from curiosity) to be privy to it at this stage. I figure they release material at critical points in the investigation to prompt pubic discussion and to place pressure on individuals related to the case. Their behaviour is undoubtedly being monitored and such released materials undoubtedly cause them great stress ... at which times errors of judgement are likely

PS thank you to the many folk here who are welcoming me I hope you all realise that this case is constantly front page stuff in our Australian newspapers, and has caused great grief here. Australians, fwiw, tend to read many international newspapers so we're up-to-date with international news and views. Zahra was what we call "the little Aussie battler" or "the underdog". These are terms of endearment that are used to describe people who we have great affection for who struggle, who don't have life easy, and in spite of this live with dignity and a smile on their faces. Culturally we love these characters – they are national treasures. By contrast those "born with a silver spoon in their mouth" are subject to the "tall poppy syndrome" and get little sympathy and admiration – as soon as they do anything amiss they are unceremoniously flung, kicking and screaming, off their pedestal. Strange culture I realise I'm not sure if you understand this, but it's how we operate, and Zahra was a classic example of this in how she shone through her health and physical struggles. It just makes us love her more.

 

[bessie]

Another thought – there has been much speculation about whether AB accompanied EB to the locations for the alleged dumping of Zahra's body parts on the 25th Sept without his mobile (as it didn't identify him at those locations). No doubt it will have been quite easy for the investigators to trace the locations of his phone on that date (possibly workplace) which would then be cross-referenced with eye-witness accounts and records.

Same goes for the furniture store that EB and Zahra were seen at (and possibly another woman) on the 25th Sept ... surely EB's phone would identify her location. The warrants I have seen don't go back to that date; however, there may be other warrants for this earlier timeframe that we simply have not seen yet.

I feel it's all info that's released on a "need-to-know-basis" ... and we "the public" really have no need (apart from curiosity) to be privy to it at this stage. I figure they release material at critical points in the investigation to prompt pubic discussion and to place pressure on individuals related to the case. Their behaviour is undoubtedly being monitored and such released materials undoubtedly cause them great stress ... at which times errors of judgement are likely

PS thank you to the many folk here who are welcoming me I hope you all realise that this case is constantly front page stuff in our Australian newspapers, and has caused great grief here. Australians, fwiw, tend to read many international newspapers so we're up-to-date with international news and views. Zahra was what we call "the little Aussie battler" or "the underdog". These are terms of endearment that are used to describe people who we have great affection for who struggle, who don't have life easy, and in spite of this live with dignity and a smile on their faces. Culturally we love these characters – they are national treasures. By contrast those "born with a silver spoon in their mouth" are subject to the "tall poppy syndrome" and get little sympathy and admiration – as soon as they do anything amiss they are unceremoniously flung, kicking and screaming, off their pedestal. Strange culture I realise I'm not sure if you understand this, but it's how we operate, and Zahra was a classic example of this in how she shone through her health and physical struggles. It just makes us love her more.

It's heartening to know that Zahra's story is being followed so closely in her homeland. Thank you for the explanation, flakes. I find nothing strange about that attitude at all, and daresay it is one shared by most Americans. No matter how the world might perceive us now, as a nation, we were once very much "the underdog" struggling to survive.

The warrant doesn't tell us where AB's phone records place him that day, only that he was not at the burial sites. I agree, LE must have that information. Unless he was away from the house at the time and seen by witnesses who can vouch for him, I'm not giving him a pass. For that matter, even if he has a rock solid alibi for the day of burial (whenever it took place), it still doesn't prove he was not involved in Zahra's death. So, yes, he should be very nervous right now.

I also agree that there is a strategy at play in the timing and content of information disseminated in this case. I sure hope it's working. :crossfingers:

 

[tlcya]

I think LE has the info regarding where AB's phone WAS pinging that day and it was nowhere near the disposal sights. I think this may exlpain why he is not in jail or charged with anything relating to Zahra's disappearance. While his discription(s) of when he last saw Zahra would not seem to match up with EB's tale, they cannot place him at the disposal sites but rather his cel phone places him eleswhere. This could lead LE to be unsure as to exactly what his involvement was or the level of it, hence they are taking a wait and see attitude as more leads are followed and evidence gathered.

 

[ynotdivein]

I think LE has the info regarding where AB's phone WAS pinging that day and it was nowhere near the disposal sights. I think this may exlpain why he is not in jail or charged with anything relating to Zahra's disappearance. While his discription(s) of when he last saw Zahra would not seem to match up with EB's tale, they cannot place him at the disposal sites but rather his cel phone places him eleswhere. This could lead LE to be unsure as to exactly what his involvement was or the level of it, hence they are taking a wait and see attitude as more leads are followed and evidence gathered.

It will be interesting to learn whose fingerprints are on that knife and sheath they took from the home.

 

[westsidefox64]

In regard to computers I think that information is probley on the warrant we havent seen. I dont see anyone in this group being smart enough to get rid of them ahead of time. JMO

 

[tlcya]

Welcome Flakes, great posts, look forward to reading more of your thoughts in the days to come.

 

[SherlockHomey]

In regard to computers I think that information is probley on the warrant we havent seen. I dont see anyone in this group being smart enough to get rid of them ahead of time. JMO

Yeah, I thought the same too until there is nothing on the SWs. I think this witch is a wee bit smarter (read manipulative and street smart) than we give her credit for. Look at how she has manipulated the legal system to her advantage for years and years. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

 

[lauriej]

Did anyone else notice there were no computers or laptops taken from the home? :waitasec:

..it's possible they handed them over willingly on oct.9th to "aid in the kidnapping investigation" for LE to copy the HD , as kc anthony did, so there was no need for a S/W .

http://abcnews.go.com/US/search-zahra-baker-911-tapes-released/story?id=11916819&page=3


Search dogs have been deployed not only in Catawba County, where Hickory is located, but also in nearby Caldwell and Burke counties, the Record reported today.

Police have also combed through woods and fields, and poured through the family's computers and phone records.

 

[LCoastMom]

Using the GPS location in her cell phone, investigators determined that on Sept. 25 Elisa was in the areas where parts of Zahra's body were recovered. Those areas include where a bone and her prosthesis were found on Christie Road and where part of her remains were found on Dudley Shoals Road, both in Caldwell County. According to his GPS location, Adam was not in those areas when Zahra's remains were found.

Police said because Elisa had lied about her relationship with Young and because of the GPS and cell tower locations of their cell phones on Sept. 25, they think it is important to obtain Young's phone records as it "will likely provide information substantially related to this homicide investigation."

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/news/stock-alert/vz_documents-elisa-baker-had-ongoing-relationship-with-ex-husband-his-cousin-1413218.html

So it is not just calls or texts from cell phone pings they are looking at but also GPS from the phone -

 

[diphi]

So it is not just calls or texts from cell phone pings they are looking at but also GPS from the phone -

Help me out, someone...does that mean that the GPS in AB's phone did not reflect that the phone was anywhere near the dump sites? Additionally, there were no calls or texts from his phone from those locations?