Ted Haggard now "completely heterosexual"

[BarnGoddess]

Sorry, but the Rocky Mountain News doesn't say anything about his miraculous "cure".

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5330690,00.html

It does say he admits to being a sex addict and is still seeking therapy.

 

[IrishMist]

Could you please refrain from saying simply and clearly what I am trying to say in a long-winded fashion?

Thank you in advance. :waitasec:

If you will agree to stop saying what I want to say so much better than I do!

 

[spclk]

Nova, I indeed did not mean to compare drug addicts to homosexuals other than their behavior as you stated. I just find human nature an interesting study and wondered what the opinions from others was regarding using therapy to help change behavior "IF" change is desired in the case of someone who is homosexual. We don't really know if he is homosexual, bi-sexual, or was just experimenting. We also don't know if these are feelings he has had his whole life or if they result from a life experience.

I personally believe, that yes, many people are born "homosexual", but I also believe that many turn to that due to experiences in their life that have influenced it (though far fewer). Thanks for your excellent response!

 

[southcitymom]

I agree that human sexuality is a wide and varied spectrum that is influenced by everything from genetics to personal choice. By adulthood, most of us have a pretty good idea of where we float on the spectrum.

 

[Nova]

Nova, I indeed did not mean to compare drug addicts to homosexuals other than their behavior as you stated. I just find human nature an interesting study and wondered what the opinions from others was regarding using therapy to help change behavior "IF" change is desired in the case of someone who is homosexual. We don't really know if he is homosexual, bi-sexual, or was just experimenting. We also don't know if these are feelings he has had his whole life or if they result from a life experience.

I personally believe, that yes, many people are born "homosexual", but I also believe that many turn to that due to experiences in their life that have influenced it (though far fewer). Thanks for your excellent response!

You're right. We don't know. But for a man of Haggard's generation to risk divorce, ruin and public stigma, the desire must have been pretty strong. (We aren't just talking about one drunken evening, after all.)

Given the shame that still attaches to homosexual behavior - particularly among those of Haggard's religious community - I find it hard to believe he was just "experimenting." (Were we talking about a teenage boy, I would feel differently.)

In my experience, it isn't uncommon for women to turn to lesbian relationships after a difficult heterosexual marriage or just because they really care about one particular woman. In my 35 years as an out, gay man, I have never met a gay man who claimed anything of the kind. (Yes, I've heard a yokel on TV claim he was "turned gay" when he was molested as a child, but oddly, I've never heard a self-accepting gay man say that.)

Pretty much every gay man I've ever met says he knew he was "different" long before he reached puberty. Even once-gay men I know who eventually settled into an open and honest marriage with a woman say the same.

So (a) I doubt the sexual relationship with what's-his-name was Haggard's first; and (b) I doubt he risked so much for something that was opposed to his basic nature. (Turning it around again, there are many women I love very much. And I'm certainly not repulsed by women physically. But risking my home and relationship with my partner to have sex with a woman is very, very hard to imagine. (No offense to any of the great women here at WS!))

 

[Nova]

I agree that human sexuality is a wide and varied spectrum that is influenced by everything from genetics to personal choice. By adulthood, most of us have a pretty good idea of where we float on the spectrum.

Please see my post above to Irish Mist about upstaging my meandering with clarity and brevity. I simply will not stand for it!

 

[Jessiebell]

Could you please refrain from saying simply and clearly what I am trying to say in a long-winded fashion?

Thank you in advance. :waitasec:

LOL!!!

 

[southcitymom]

Please see my post above to Irish Mist about upstaging my meandering with clarity and brevity. I simply will not stand for it!

Only if you will quit beating me to the punch with your undeniably correct and fluidly eloquent assertions!

 

[Nova]

Only if you will quit beating me to the punch with your undeniably correct and fluidly eloquent assertions!

Well, I did want to acknowledge that we do seem to have a phenomenon of women becoming lesbians in middle age. I have a number of friends who either are such women or are partnered with such women, and I don't make any assertions that they are anything but what they claim to be (i.e., women who "became" gay late in life).

But I have never seen the equivalent in men. Maybe it's because the taboo against male homosexuality is still so strong; or maybe it's because men are wired differently sexually.

 

[southcitymom]

Well, I did want to acknowledge that we do seem to have a phenomenon of women becoming lesbians in middle age. I have a number of friends who either are such women or are partnered with such women, and I don't make any assertions that they are anything but what they claim to be (i.e., women who "became" gay late in life).

But I have never seen the equivalent in men. Maybe it's because the taboo against male homosexuality is still so strong; or maybe it's because men are wired differently sexually.

I agree with this, Nova and have that own experience in my life. One of my dear friends was married twice to men, then was in a 10-year relationship with another woman (who had been lesbian-oriented most of her life) and now she is in a relationship with a man.

I've always found labels of gay, straight, lesbian, etc....to be limiting at best. People fall for people. Where it goes from there is determined in part by sexual comfort and proclivities. I do know people who appear to be 100% straight or 100% gay, but they are the minority.

I've never bought the argument that all gays are born that way and that's why we have to accept them. All people are people and all humans are also sexual beings - I don't care who you are kissing on or why - but I believe in respecting people's paths (as long as those paths don't harm others) - whether chosen or inherited!

ETA: I also agree that it's easier for women to "jump the fence" so to speak and certainly a component of that is that women's "gayness" is somehow more accepted, less threatening (heck - sometimes downright desired!) by the general population at large.

 

[scandi]

No need for that. Just throw a few pics of Johnny Depp or Brad Pitt in front of him and watch for a.....reaction. :liar:

Great one Mable. I doubt it is the miricle of the century LOL :slap:

Scandi

 

[Nova]

I agree with this, Nova and have that own experience in my life. One of my dear friends was married twice to men, then was in a 10-year relationship with another woman (who had been lesbian-oriented most of her life) and now she is in a relationship with a man.

Pretty common, as some of my life-long lesbian friends have learned to their sorrow. There's even an expression for a "temporary lesbian" in the community, but it escapes me at the moment.

I've always found labels of gay, straight, lesbian, etc....to be limiting at best. People fall for people. Where it goes from there is determined in part by sexual comfort and proclivities? I do know people who appear to be 100% straight or 100% gay, but they are the minority...

I think those labels have quite a bit of political meaning, which isn't what you are talking about, of course. But that is why I am somewhat reserved about all the studies trying to find the "biological" basis of homosexuality. There does appear to be one for many people, but the intersection of biological categories and social constructions is never an easy one.

ETA: I also agree that it's easier for women to "jump the fence" so to speak and certainly a component of that is that women's "gayness" is somehow more accepted, less threatening (heck - sometimes downright desired!) by the general population at large.

Well put. By and large, women are also more sensuous in their connections (whether for biological or social reasons), where men tend to be more hung up on genitalia. It may be an easier adjustment for a woman to make.

 

[Jessiebell]

I've always found labels of gay, straight, lesbian, etc....to be limiting at best. People fall for people. Where it goes from there is determined in part by sexual comfort and proclivities? I do know people who appear to be 100% straight or 100% gay, but they are the minority...

I agree. For instance I consider myself to be pretty heterosexual, as I have never met a woman that made me think of her in a sexual manner and am happily married, until the moment Angelina sees that she really wants to make-out with me....

 

[southcitymom]

I agree. For instance I consider myself to be pretty heterosexual, as I have never met a woman that made me think of her in a sexual manner and am happily married, until the moment Angelina sees that she really wants to make-out with me....

LOL...she has that effect on people, no?

 

[BarnGoddess]

I agree with your above post, Nova. I do not believe one word about those in that "church" who come out and say he's "cured". Pardon me, but it's BS. Nothing more than a "face-saving" exercise on the part of this group. Let's put it this way, he was caught in that particular relationship.

Whether or not he continues his marriage, time will tell. To continue his education in psychology may be good for him. We may find out a year or two down the line, he has accepted his homosexuality and others may benefit from his knowledge about himself.

I do know that some married transexuals continue to live with their former spouses. I do not know any gay/lesbians that are married, so I can't comment on those relationships. I have known gay men who have had very stable relationships over many years.

I sincerely hope Haggard finds peace, without the church's interference.

 

[Ang50]

Hubby and I just watched "Jesus Camp" about how the evangelicals are indoctrinating children. I thought it was quite well-balanced - didn't resort to cheap cliches, really portrayed the children sensitively and so forth.

However, it's quite dated already b/c of the totally blind support for Bush (which even evangelicals have to be backing off from) and the appearance of Haggard. In fact, part of his speech even talks about homosexuality. Every statement he makes is so ironic now b/c of his current circumstances. Plus - you see what a power and following he had, and now he couldn't pack a room at the Holiday Inn.

 

[Nova]

Hubby and I just watched "Jesus Camp" about how the evangelicals are indoctrinating children. I thought it was quite well-balanced - didn't resort to cheap cliches, really portrayed the children sensitively and so forth.

However, it's quite dated already b/c of the totally blind support for Bush (which even evangelicals have to be backing off from) and the appearance of Haggard. In fact, part of his speech even talks about homosexuality. Every statement he makes is so ironic now b/c of his current circumstances. Plus - you see what a power and following he had, and now he couldn't pack a room at the Holiday Inn.

The reviews I read said the same thing, Ang. Of course, some people think the irony only enhances the message, but it may well detract from the balance.

I look forward to seeing it.

 

[Mabel]

My ex husband, unbeknownst to me at the time of our marriage, was ending a 23 year long sexual relationship with a man. When I learned of it he denied that he was a homosexual, he said it was just a bad habit, like alcoholism. He also said that he fought the urge to be with a man every single day. Church "cured" him of wanting men, he said. He hated me and treated me like dirt. I feel that he resented me for being a woman and he resented living the lie that I represented. He has now remarried and treats his new wife the same way.

 

[LionRun]

http://www.wbir.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=41985

"A fellow minister says the Reverend Ted Haggard has come out of intense counseling, convinced he's "completely heterosexual."

more at link

Yup. And, I own Texas.

Lion

 

[samhoney]

Ummm yeah right...just 'cause he said so don't make it true....:snooty:
:laugh:

As Polk said in Gone With The Wind, "Askin' ain't gettin'."