Terri Horman, Getting Death Threats, Lawyer Says

[Mylou]

IMO, I believe it is a witch hunt, and I believe that death threats always follow them.

 

[Calliope]

I think the 'give up custody' was the reporter's interpretation. He says 'initially' ...

I think he's referring to this:

http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/0712/24228332.pdf

 

[RoughlyCollie]

It's what lawyers do. They shield and protect their client and their reputations by lying.

I am a retired criminal defense attorney, and I am related to and know plenty of others who are currently in this profession. They don't lie about their clients. In fact, they do not seek out media attention, and if they receive it, they do not comment much, if at all, on their cases. Their clients, however, frequently lie to them.

I know that sometimes high publicity cases attract lawyers who act in a less than ethical manner.

But to say that criminal defense attorneys, in general, lie to protect their clients and their reputations is not accurate. That would be unethical.

 

[adh74]

I'm sorry, I just find the irony that TH and her atty are concerned about a few random death threats, given that the whole reason they are having the hearing in the first place is because KH had to get a RO against TH because she, his WIFE, tried to PAY someone to kill him. Really???

No worries, Terri. Don't let those big, bad, scary, whackadoos frighten you. Tell you what...you tell us what you did with Kyron, and we, the taxpayers of America, will pay 100% of your room, board, and living expenses for the next 50 or so years. Deal?

 

[wondering1]

Possible, I guess. But I don't see him making this statement without first verifying it for himself.

Nah. Even if he's talking about specific threats from an identifiable source, which I kinda doubt (at least wrt threats beyond 3, anyway), I don't think he would necessarily bother to verify it. If he doesn't confirm that it's not true, he can continue to state it with conviction based on what his client has told him. If he looks into it, and it turns out to be false or questionable, he couldn't continue to spout about it -- at least in court.

And on that subject, I would be very interested in the way he makes these statements on the record. There is no doubt in my mind that he would flat out lie in the media, but maybe not in court on the record (although I've seen it done). If he identifies the threat and the threatener to the court, then at least he believes what he is saying. Personally, I think if he brings up threats to the court, the court will want to know the details. If his response to the court is wishy-washy, meh, he's just posturing and spinning.

 

[nursebeeme]

I am a retired criminal defense attorney, and I am related to and know plenty of others who are currently in this profession. They don't lie about their clients. In fact, they do not seek out media attention, and if they receive it, they do not comment much, if at all, on their cases. Their clients, however, frequently lie to them.

I know that sometimes high publicity cases attract lawyers who act in a less than ethical manner.

But to say that criminal defense attorneys, in general, lie to protect their clients and their reputations is not accurate. That would be unethical.

bbm except for Jose Baez (sorry couldn't resist

eta: thanks for your service RC! Sincerely!

 

[Calliope]

If either option results in her not seeing the baby for at least one year, I'm not seeing what the difference is. Please could you enlighten me?

I explained in the other thread why I believe her attorney isn't going to address any of this.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5395506&postcount=81"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Terri Horman Agrees to Leave the House & is not contesting the RO[/ame]


Bottom line is, to do so would risk tipping his hand to his defense in any criminal trial regarding Kyron. That is his priority. There can always be proceedings down the line to vacate the RO, award visitation and custody, etc. But if he screws up now and risks whatever he may need to use in her (probable) trial, she will lose custody for good.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

If she doesn't fight custody of the baby, then I think it is likely she cannot produce Kyron.

If she is a sociopath who got rid of Kyron, then she does not care about her baby like most mothers would.

 

[wondering1]

If either option results in her not seeing the baby for at least one year, I'm not seeing what the difference is. Please could you enlighten me?

I think that's generally true, but under the FAPA as I read it, the judge can drop the order at any time. I'm sure there are criteria for that, but I didn't see them spelled out in the part I was reading. Seems to me that acquittal on the charges that are the basis for the RO would qualify, though. I read the petition and I didn't see any allegations other than her involvement with Kyron's disappearance and the MFH thing. Although I guess we can add attempted obduction of baby girl (although I think that allegation is pretty weak, legally)

Is there any mechanism for her petitioning to change the RO after the 30 days run? I didn't see one, but maybe it's done in practice, idk.

 

[Cher352]

Maybe Terri would lie to her attorney about getting death threats.

If she is a POI by LE then I would think LE would know if she is getting death threads and by whom as I am sure they are monitoring all her calls.

But I suspect she is getting some judging by a LOT of statements I have sent posted after the media articles or other places on the net.

 

[nursebeeme]

If she is a sociopath who got rid of Kyron, then she does not care about her baby like most mothers would.

post of the day~!!

We cannot put ourselves into the shoes of those with personality disorders/disruptions of thought processes and think like them. We say, 'how could she do this' etc... and the plain fact is that it is outside the rational and normal boundaries of thinking for the majority of us.

I agree that if it does in fact turn out to be Terri Moulton with sociopathic behavior resulting in the vanishing of Kyron.. than she also has the same attitude toward her baby... and, to quote you Collie again:" a sociopath who got rid of Kyron, then she does not care about her baby like most mothers would"

putting yourself into the shoes of a sociopath and their way of thinking is a little like trying to fit your size 10 sneaker foot into a size 5 wedge with a 4 inch heel.

MOO

 

[Aedrys]

I am a retired criminal defense attorney, and I am related to and know plenty of others who are currently in this profession. They don't lie about their clients. In fact, they do not seek out media attention, and if they receive it, they do not comment much, if at all, on their cases. Their clients, however, frequently lie to them.

I know that sometimes high publicity cases attract lawyers who act in a less than ethical manner.

But to say that criminal defense attorneys, in general, lie to protect their clients and their reputations is not accurate. That would be unethical.

I am very sorry. I did not mean to offend you. You are right. I guess I have seen so many cases where these unethical defense attorneys are in the spotlight that I just thought that was par for the course. The ones I haven't seen are probably the ones like you, who work hard and don't lie for their clients. I guess I just have a bad taste in my mouth for defense attorneys, at least the bad ones. I had no idea you were one and wouldn't have guessed that. You really are that good!

I went back and added a note to my post clarifying my position and edited my post a bit. Again, I apologize.

 

[Boo Scout]

I find it very hard to believe that people question if in fact TH is receiving death threats. I would be shocked if she was not receiving death threats. Whether or not we like it, I think there's a subset of people out there who make threats like this based on cases like this (or less, for that matter). They may not have the ba!!s to carry it out - but no doubt, there's people, so convinced of her guilt and furthermore convinced there's only one justice for her.

MOO JMHO and such and so...

 

[Mylou]

If TH is a sociopath, then why isn't she acting normal ? Why isn't she mimicking others ? She certainly has been an oddball, how does that make her appear normal ?

 

[RoughlyCollie]

I am very sorry. I did not mean to offend you. You are right. I guess I have seen so many cases where these unethical defense attorneys are in the spotlight that I just thought that was par for the course. The ones I haven't seen are probably the ones like you, who work hard and don't lie for their clients. I guess I just have a bad taste in my mouth for defense attorneys, at least the bad ones. I had no idea you were one and wouldn't have guessed that. You really are that good!

I just don't want you to think that the vast majority of criminal defense attorneys are unethical. They are not. There are bad apples in the barrel, and if you are only exposed to those (they seem to flock to high profile cases), I can see why you would think that.

So far, I am impressed with TH's attorney because he is not a media hound (yet). The minute he starts acting like Geragos, for example, my opinion will flip. Frankly, I think that criminal defense attorneys should always say "no comment" to the media, no matter what.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

If TH is a sociopath, then why isn't she acting normal ? Why isn't she mimicking others ? She certainly has been an oddball, how does that make her appear normal ?

If she is a sociopath, she has been one for most of her life, and has gotten away with it, as most do. Now, IMO, she is coming apart at the seams because she is disintegrating. That's just my opinion, based on extensive reading I've done about sociopaths/psychopaths and their interactions with normal people (meaning people who are not sociopaths).

I have met a couple of sociopaths, and they are very, very good at convincing everyone that they are normal, even when people know better. I think that is because they appear to be fully human and it is hard for people to fully grasp the truth that they are not. By "people", I include attorneys, psychiatrists, FBI agents ... IMO, we are all capable of being fooled by a sociopath.

With one, in particular, I recall the FBI being totally flabbergasted about something he had done on their watch. I was his daily confidant. I talked to him for over an hour every day on the phone, and I was totally flabbergasted, too. It was outrageous -- so flamboyant, and large scale (international), and unpredictable that it was funny. (He was not a violent sociopath.) There were plenty of folks who knew this sociopath who thought he was totally normal -- and he made sure of that, they were his cover and not his targets.

If it turns out she in fact was instrumental in making Kyron disappear, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to convince me otherwise.

If it turns out she is factually innocent of any involvement with Kyron's actual disappearance, then I will take it all back -- not that it matters what I think.

 

[wondering1]

If she is a sociopath who got rid of Kyron, then she does not care about her baby like most mothers would.

True enough. But sociopaths are notorious for using their children for their own purposes, e.g., to garner sympathy and/or convey the *mother of the year* portrait that's been posted about before. She can't very well do that if she doesn't HAVE the baby. So even assuming that she is a sociopath, I personally am still a little surprised she didn't go after the baby harder, and I can really only think of one reason for that. Which reason also is consistent with being a sociopath -- going after custody isn't in TH's *own* best interests. Forget about the baby's. jmoo.

 

[MsFacetious]

Is it possible, gasp, LE isn't taking death threats to TH seriously? Maybe I misunderstood?

I think that LE will assess any threats that come in.

The MOSAIC method is what Gavin de Becker developed to more accurately predict when a threat would be acted on. Gavin de Becker has provided assessment and management training of threats and safety hazards for the Central Intelligence Agency, U.S. Supreme Court of Police, U.S. Marshals Service, Federal Reserve Board, FBI, along with many police departments. He has also worked with numerous celebrities as well.

Here is a bit from him on threats in general:

"It’s bad, of course, that someone threatens violence, but the threat means that at least for now, the speaker has considered violence and decided against doing it. The threat means that at least for now, the speaker favors words that alarm over actions that harm.

Though you wouldn’t know it by the reaction they frequently earn, threats are rarely spoken from a position of power. Whatever power threats have is derived from the fear instilled in the victim.

In most instances of terrorist threat, the threat is the terrorist event. It is the end it itself. Speaking generally, those who threaten do not act, and those who act do not threaten.

Our social world relies on our investing some threats with credibility while discounting others. Our belief that they really will tow the car if we leave it here encourages us to look for a parking space unencumbered by that particular threat. The disbelief that our joking spouse will really kill us if we are late to dinner allows us to stay in the marriage. And finally, we are better able to go about our day-to day lives with the knowledge that most of the time, terrorists with the power to act, act, and those without the power to act, threaten.

And we can be certain that terrorist threats are not guarantees of action, and in fact, are usually in place of action."

- Gavin de Becker

https://www.gavindebecker.com/resources/article/apacolypse_not_now/

It makes sense.... many of the non domestic crimes are without much warning. Or committed by someone who had not made a threat.

I also think that his book "The Gift of Fear" should be required reading for every girl when they turn 16-18.

"Protecting The Gift" should be given out in the hospital when you have a child.

Here is some out of "The Gift of Fear" - http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/The-Gift-of-Fear-by-Gavin-de-Becker/1

 

[nursebeeme]

True enough. But sociopaths are notorious for using their children for their own purposes, e.g., to garner sympathy and/or convey the *mother of the year* portrait that's been posted about before. She can't very well do that if she doesn't HAVE the baby. So even assuming that she is a sociopath, I personally am still a little surprised she didn't go after the baby harder, and I can really only think of one reason for that. Which reason also is consistent with being a sociopath -- going after custody isn't in TH's *own* best interests. Forget about the baby's. jmoo.

this is happening so quickly and she is following the advice of an atty. Wouldn't you agree (to some extent) that she is holding on to her baby by not leaving the home the second all this stuff came down (divorce, RO, murder for hire, attempted abduction of the baby, stextual relationship with MC, etc... I say etc because I think I am missing something! She has been BUSY since kyron has gone missing but nothing related to FINDING HIM).

I think, if she is sociopathic, she is at this time trying to garner as much symapthy as possible... and she most likely is getting some. Refer to letters written to Casey Anthony in jail. JMHOO

 

[nursebeeme]

If she is a sociopath, she has been one for most of her life, and has gotten away with it, as most do. Now, IMO, she is coming apart at the seams because she is disintegrating. That's just my opinion, based on extensive reading I've done about sociopaths/psychopaths and their interactions with normal people (meaning people who are not sociopaths).

I have met a couple of sociopaths, and they are very, very good at convincing everyone that they are normal, even when people know better. I think that is because they appear to be fully human and it is hard for people to fully grasp the truth that they are not. By "people", I include attorneys, psychiatrists, FBI agents ... IMO, we are all capable of being fooled by a sociopath.

If it turns out she in fact was instrumental in making Kyron disappear, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to convince me otherwise.

If it turns out she is factually innocent of any involvement with Kyron's actual disappearance, then I will take it all back -- not that it matters what I think.

RC, as a retired defense atty I take what you say very seriously. ((have you been vetted as a professional? just takes a sec of your time... I did it myself as a BSN/RN for other cases I have commented on medically)