Terri Horman retains criminal defense attorney!

[miabellamoure]

Could she have weighed it down -- perhaps with weights?

Is it possible with TH's past history of body building she may have had some "weights" in her vehicle to do just that?

 

[scandi]

Hi everyone. This is my first time posting, but I've been a long time lurker. Kyron's case has certainly pulled at my heartstrings & I hope he is found soon. I can't wait to see if her attorney will be making any statements to the press.

My mother had Bloodhounds when I was growing up. I remember that one of the famous Bloodhounds from the early 1900s tracked over 600 subjects & one trail over 100 hours old. My fiance & I have Weimaraners, now, & while they have an excellent nose, it can't compare to a bloodhound's. The dog that our blue weims are descended from was a very prolific & well known tracker in his lifetime, Casar von Gaiburg. There are stories & newspaper articles of him tracking cases that were 9 or 10 days old, & in some cases it's said he was more accurate than LE.

My fiance is a vet & he says that the canine nose & it's effectiveness is still somewhat a mystery. So, it might be possible for a dog to trail the scent of a person missing for 4 weeks, but after that long & especially depending on the weather I doubt it'd be very likely. I would think that a cadaver dog would be more effective. IMO it certainly couldn't hurt anything for LE to call in a couple of them just in case.

Hi Clintsangel, WELCOME to WS and thanks for such an interesting first post.

There is relatively little on the web about sniffer dogs IMO. Drives me nuts when I go looking for something.

But I did once find the most fascinating article about how the scent wafts through the air and enters the dogs nose. I wish I'd have copied it as it explained the complexity of the dogs nose and how the odour hits different parts of his nose.

Thanks to your hubby too ! xox

 

[clintsangel]

Thanks for the nice welcome, Scandi! You're right there isn't as much info about the science behind tracking/trailing on the internet as there should be. But I know the American Bloodhound Club & the National Police Bloodhound Assoc both have quite a lot of info about their breed & links to other websites. It is all interesting when you consider that dogs' noses are used to detect everything from bedbugs & termites to explosives.


I'm not sure, but I think I read on a news site that SM's attorney hasn't been known to be very talkative to the media in past cases. So, I wonder if we'll be hearing anything at all from her anytime soon.

 

[GrainneDhu]

They are using dogs today and yesterday in the Jacob Wetterling search and it has been 22 years.......

I'm not challenging you, I'm just interested in this case. Do you have a link?

Without any other information, I'm betting that those dog handlers are not demanding the Wetterlings turn over something that belonged to Jacob.

Depending on many factors, dogs can detect human remains that are over a century old. Such dogs are not looking for a specific person, they are trained to indicate human remains in general. It is widely believed amongst dog handlers that each living human being smells different and every dead human being eventually (after 2-4 hours or so) smells the same.

 

[raeann]

I'm not challenging you, I'm just interested in this case. Do you have a link?

Without any other information, I'm betting that those dog handlers are not demanding the Wetterlings turn over something that belonged to Jacob.

Depending on many factors, dogs can detect human remains that are over a century old. Such dogs are not looking for a specific person, they are trained to indicate human remains in general. It is widely believed amongst dog handlers that each living human being smells different and every dead human being eventually (after 2-4 hours or so) smells the same.

The Jacob W. discussion is under the cases from the 80's threads, IIRC. I am sure the dogs used in the Jacob W. search would have been some sort of cadaver dogs. I was just amazed that they were still felt to be effective so long after! The search was being done by LE there on a farm, and they were digging up what was supposedly an area where ashes from a wood burning furnace have been dumped over the years. I have no clue whether that would help the dogs or make it more difficult for them.

 

[SuziQ]

They are using dogs today and yesterday in the Jacob Wetterling search and it has been 22 years.......

I believe those are cadaver dogs being used in the Wetterling search. The poster was talking about scent dogs.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The Jacob W. discussion is under the cases from the 80's threads, IIRC. I am sure the dogs used in the Jacob W. search would have been some sort of cadaver dogs. I was just amazed that they were still felt to be effective so long after! The search was being done by LE there on a farm, and they were digging up what was supposedly an area where ashes from a wood burning furnace have been dumped over the years. I have no clue whether that would help the dogs or make it more difficult for them.

Warning: explicit information about human remains follows.

I know it is amazingly difficult to completely burn a human body. Professional crematoriums use extremely high heat and then they run the results through a machine that pulverises them into particles of a certain maximum size (quite small) so that if the family decides to scatter the "cremains" (as they are called), they won't be freaked out by finding anything that is recognisably a bone or tooth fragment.

So if human remains were burned in that stove, I would expect there to be bone or tooth fragments. Once such fragments were spread in the environment, they would resume decomposing and would then give off a scent detectable by a HRD dog.

One interesting case I read about (but can't find the link for, sorry!) was a cadaver dog that alerted on a tree. Kept going back and alerting on this one tree. They checked the immediate area of the tree and couldn't find anything, so they chalked it up to a false alert by the dog.

Several months later, someone discovered remains coming out of the ground on the slope uphill of that tree. There had been rain and the soil above the body had eroded, exposing the remains.

When they took the dog back, it alerted on the tree again. Then as the handler encouraged the dog to work the rest of the area, the dog eventually alerted on the actual grave.

The theory was that the remains had decomposed and some of the products of decomposition had dissolved into the ground water, which moved downhill and was taken up by the tree.

 

[cluciano63]

I am trying to think of legit reasons why LE has been unable to move past Terri, without it meaning that she must be guilty. Is it because she cannot verify 100% where she was from 8:45-1:30PM or so (possible FB use time)? And that everyone else concerned seemingly can (even though LE says no one has been ruled out, I think it is clear their focus is on Terri.)
Or is it that, combined with a possible failed or inconclusive LD test/tests?

I guess I am just trying to figure how she might, without guilty reason, be unable to satisfy LE so that they could move on. Could she have done errands at places without cameras, and could she have left her phone elsewhere on that day? I mean it is possible, but those two factors alone could keep her from being cleared, right

Just trying to figure out what LE knows that is not enough for charges, but is enough to keep her front and center...

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Just trying to figure out what LE knows that is not enough for charges, but is enough to keep her front and center...

First LE has to choose a crime with which to charge her. We'd have to read the Oregon criminal law statutes to find a crime that would fit despite the facts that LE doesn't know where Kyron is or whether he is dead or alive. From what I can tell, LE has ruled out some things in their investigation, but have not got enough affirmative evidence which would lead them to Kyron or to the person who took him.

Then they have to make sure they have probable cause to arrest Terri. Mere suspicion is not enough. A person's status of being the last person known to have seen a missing child is not a crime. That status is not the same as being the last person to actually have seen the child.

From the actual facts we know about Terri, she has not committed a crime. These facts, in my view, only come from LE. People lie to reporters and the media doesn't always report all the facts or just the facts. We cannot, in fairness, just assume that everyone associated with the case (except Terri) is telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth either to the public directly or to the press.

People also lie to LE, including innocent people. Add that to the notorious unreliability of eyewitness testimony, which may be the bulk of what they have, and it is no wonder that this case is confusing to everyone.

 

[K9Snoop]

Warning: explicit information about human remains follows.

One interesting case I read about (but can't find the link for, sorry!) was a cadaver dog that alerted on a tree. Kept going back and alerting on this one tree. They checked the immediate area of the tree and couldn't find anything, so they chalked it up to a false alert by the dog.

Several months later, someone discovered remains coming out of the ground on the slope uphill of that tree. There had been rain and the soil above the body had eroded, exposing the remains.

When they took the dog back, it alerted on the tree again. Then as the handler encouraged the dog to work the rest of the area, the dog eventually alerted on the actual grave.

The theory was that the remains had decomposed and some of the products of decomposition had dissolved into the ground water, which moved downhill and was taken up by the tree.

This is not a theory but a fact. Water will move downhill dragging odor and dissolved particles of the body with it. It is known that the vegetation (trees, bushes, etc) takes up the nutrients proved by the human remains. Due to the gas exchange from the leaves the human scent is released into the air. Frequently the alerts will normally be on the vegetation first, actual grave second. I guess this is because the vegetation is releasing a larger scent mass then the smaller amount working it's way out of the ground. What I find fascinating is that the "human" scent survives the plant's processing and use of the nutrients.

 

[Kat]

I'm very curious as to why TH's attn hasn't spoken out yet. Usually we see defense attn's speak out and make statements in situations like these where there are pressers and they feel their client has been cast in an unfair light.
JMHO


Wonder what he's up to?

 

[For The Kids]

I'm very curious as to why TH's attn hasn't spoken out yet. Usually we see defense attn's speak out and make statements in situations like these where there are pressers and they feel their client has been cast in an unfair light.
JMHO


Wonder what he's up to?

Probably wondering what the heck he got himself into?

JMO

 

[eyes4crime]

This is not a theory but a fact. Water will move downhill dragging odor and dissolved particles of the body with it. It is known that the vegetation (trees, bushes, etc) takes up the nutrients proved by the human remains. Due to the gas exchange from the leaves the human scent is released into the air. Frequently the alerts will normally be on the vegetation first, actual grave second. I guess this is because the vegetation is releasing a larger scent mass then the smaller amount working it's way out of the ground. What I find fascinating is that the "human" scent survives the plant's processing and use of the nutrients.

Wondering: I thought that once dead there is no human scent (we each have our own) but decomp scent (we all have the same scent when dead). moo

 

[cluciano63]

I believe Drew P.'s attorney was speaking out plenty before Drew was actually charged with anything. But he was named a POI fairly soon, wasn't he, regarding Stacy?
Maybe Terri's lawyer feels it is better to ignore Desiree's accusations and wait for LE to name her or charge her. But I don't know that I have ever seen someone called a liar on TV like this before, in this type of case.

 

[eyes4crime]

I'm very curious as to why TH's attn hasn't spoken out yet. Usually we see defense attn's speak out and make statements in situations like these where there are pressers and they feel their client has been cast in an unfair light.
JMHO


Wonder what he's up to?

What I've read about her crim defense attorney is that not only is he an excellent one, but has great PR skills and hones in on technicalities that were violated. Wonder if the RO being made public is the result of one of the technicalities? I think he's quietly working behind the scenes. moo

 

[Kat]

What I've read about her crim defense attorney is that not only is he an excellent one, but has great PR skills and hones in on technicalities that were violated. Wonder if the RO being made public is the result of one of the technicalities? I think he's quietly working behind the scenes. moo

Yup E4C, I bet he is too. I'm just dying to know what he's doing LOL

 

[loves2bmom]

Yup E4C, I bet he is too. I'm just dying to know what he's doing LOL

If PR is his specialty, I wonder if he's busy digging up dirt on both Kaine and Desiree to deflect all the attention away from his client. I'm betting we hear lots more dirty laundry before this is all over.

 

[K9Snoop]

Wondering: I thought that once dead there is no human scent (we each have our own) but decomp scent (we all have the same scent when dead). moo

Yes, and no. Each human has a unique LIVE scent and once you die elements change. The thought is that the human decomp smell is generic and on the surface it probably is, but its documented that people who have died of drug ingestion, alcohol intoxication, etc are not treated quite the same by the dogs as the "normal" dead person. Also dead animals do not produce the same "odor" as dead humans (possibly due to diet, chemicals we wear or subject ourselves to, etc). And the odor between animal species can also be different. A dead sheep does not smell the same as a dead cow, or the same as a bag of dead cats.

What we have found is that to produce the most effective dog you have to train with a variety of scent samples, in different amounts, from many different sources across the greatest range of decomp that you can find because as the material degrades it will produce different odors at different stages as it breaks down. People normally never get rid of their material. They just keep collecting it because they have to keep getting "fresh" or "fresher" odor supplies.

 

[Calliope]

I'm very curious as to why TH's attn hasn't spoken out yet. Usually we see defense attn's speak out and make statements in situations like these where there are pressers and they feel their client has been cast in an unfair light.
JMHO


Wonder what he's up to?

He's a good attorney.

 

[BeanE]

A quarter of a million dollars. Looks like that's Houze's retainer fee.

That's also the amount Casey Anthony was paid for pictures of her baby Caylee who she murdered. Casey used the money to pay for her defense.

There sure are a lot of pics of Kyron in the media. I wonder if Terri knew what Casey did, and in the early days of this case, struck the same kind of deal, selling Kyron's pics.

I just don't see how she could have come up with $250,000 otherwise.

http://wweek.com/editorial/3636/14268/

A fellow lawyer tells WW that based on jail records obtained as part of another case, Houze last year told a potential client the amount he would charge as a retainer was $250,000. If so, it would easily make Houze one of Portland’s most expensive criminal-defense lawyers.

How Terri Horman, an ex-schoolteacher, could afford a quarter-million dollars up front remains unanswered. Her parents, both former teachers living in Southern Oregon, declined to comment when reached by WW.