Terri obtained new cell phones from friends to avoid investigator's scrutiny

[bessie]

Personally, I would use 2 phones. Keep the old one in case a kidnapper or whatever called, and use a bat phone for talking with my attorney. The article doesn't mention if the original phone was functional or not*, and whethor or not she was using both. Not sure KH would have had the original number dropped.

*There's a lot about this article that bothers me. I am still quite uncomfortable with the "sources" issue of the article I mentioned before.

A big MOOO!

bbm That would be the most logical and prudent scenario, IMO. And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if KH and DY have bat phones themselves by now. There are reasons to own them besides "avoiding (LE) investigators' scrutiny". For instance, Houze might have his own PI's snooping around KH and DY. And then there's the media. Ugh!

I would think that the original number would be kept active to monitor incoming calls, but KH might've taken the phone from TH. As you point out, we lack sufficient information to form solid opinions.

 

[gwenabob]

That's a little different than if someone were to use spyware without your knowledge.

We have no evidence whatsoever that Terri's phone was bugged. This is all unsubstantiated supposition.

 

[ami]

Really? We all talk to friends and family about our troubles, and personal affairs. So, if a friend calls you to talk about something very personal, you wouldn't mind having those details be monitored and possibly become public? Are you going to advise your friends before each and every conversation that anything you say might be intercepted and recorded?

Are you sure that you really want everything in your life, and that of your friends and family, to not be private, but accessible? Say your daughter is in the hospital on emergency status, your BFF calls, or your minister, and you're so upset and you ask for help not only because of her health but because she's there because of a serious problem after an abortion? And maybe she's a minor child, too? You're willing to have that information be accessible?

Please understand that when I say "you" I am *not* meaning you, personally. Not at all. I am using "you" in a theoretical sense for purposes of discussion.

And frankly, I have never known anyone who doesn't have any secrets at all. I've even lived part of my life in front of media (and while in media was a well-known "personality" with my face all over town!) and I can tell you--I'm open, I'm honest, and I have secrets that are none of anybody's business. Except those who I decide to confide in.

And today, no one keeps their worries and their personal conversations restricted only to face-to-face. That time is long past.

Sorry for the length, but I think that whatever bits of privacy are left to us are something that we shouldn't give away. I understand the "I have nothing to hide", as I've said that myself, in theory, but in reality--even something innocuous, if taken out of context, can sound awful.

Let's say I have a friend who's such an activist that friends laughingly refer to her as a "zoning law terrorist" because she gives the city heck all the time. So one day I say on the phone "I can't believe this! I gotta go 'cause I have to pick my terrorist friend up at the airport. She's only here long enough to drop off a package and then she's outta the country.

I'm speaking to a friend who's part of that circle. She knows who I'm taking about, a 75-year-old activist who's dropping off a package of care items for our prenatal unit and visiting friends before heading off to France for her annual vacation.

What comes out of that, that gets picked up and leaked is "Kat010 was overheard discussing plans for a terrorist to drop off a package." Well, kiss my reputation goodbye!

I know that sounds exaggerated--but it's not really in this day of snooping. And we all have personal conversations. We all have words that we use for kidding around in certain circles.

That might hold true under normal circumstances, but this is a child murder/abduction investigation. And let's face it - it's not "everything in your life, your family's lives" - it's a cell phone conversation filled with whatever you choose to fill it with. A friend who calls you to talk about something personal when your child is missing and perhaps murdered and there's an investigation focusing primarily on you is simply not thinking straight. Any friend should understand that as Tony Young said within hours of Kyron missing: yes, for the duration of this investigation you will not have a lot of privacy. You will be investigated, and any secrets that might help find Kyron's abductor will be exposed, for the chance of getting him back. Would there really be a family member who wouldn't understand that and choose to keep their highly personal utterances for a more appropriate time?

 

[angelmom]

Aww, poor thing, she lost her sexual privacy, and Kaine and Desiree have lost their child. What is more important here?

If you use a sarcastic enough tone of voice, almost anything can be trivialized.

"Aww, poor thing, she wants equal pay for equal work, and women in Muslim countries are stoned to death for leaving the house unchaperoned."

"Aww, poor thing, insurance doesn't cover her experimental chemotherapy, and children in Africa don't even have clean water."

Wanting Kyron to be found and wanting your civil liberties are not mutually exclusive.

 

[ami]

If they haven't ruled *anyone*out, then let's compile a suspect list based on that provision. Wow. There are going to be some interesting names on it!

Respectfully, I disagree with the premise that because you acquire a lawyer instead of talking to LE diectly is an indication of guilt. We've had long discussions here at WS about our right to an attorney, and BeanE has posted information on videos where both an attorney and a cop tell people not to talk to LE without an attorney present. The first video in that series forthrightly addresses the "but it will seem like I'm guilty if I get a lawyer" viewpoint.

I ride with the cops on patrol when I can. I support LE. But if it were anything other than say, being a witness to a fender-bender, or what I'm legally required to potentially testify to in court if a case we're goes to court and they need me, I would "lawyer up" if asked to discuss say, a felony level crime. And after seeing what's happened in this case, I'd run to call the lawyer. (An aside--one of the legal responsibilities I take on and sign a binding document to is to be a witness for an incident in court for anything that happens while I'm on patrol with LE. Which means I've also signed away my right to an attorney in that instance.)

You reversed that, so it wasn't my premise. I didn't say because she hired an attorney it means she was guilty. I said if she is guilty, it would make sense to speak through her lawyer. Those are two different premises.

 

[debs]

One of the first things a woman should do in the midst of a divorce is get a phone in her name that the husband doesn't have the legal right to access. I can only assume Kaine would have granted LE permission to access the phone and records, and since we know more about what Terri discussed with MC than anyone wanted to know, getting her own phone seems smart. Keeping it out of the "marital financial hassle" is also smart.

This isn't just about a missing child anymore. This is now also about someone's rights. No one has to like that Terri is protected under law while a child is missing. But there is currently no proof that she had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance and any invasion of her privacy because it's legal to do it when her husband says they can invade her life is something her lawyer would work rapidly to close up. The law must show cause to invade a person's life.

 

[Chablis]

If you use a sarcastic enough tone of voice, almost anything can be trivialized.

"Aww, poor thing, she wants equal pay for equal work, and women in Muslim countries are stoned to death for leaving the house unchaperoned."

"Aww, poor thing, insurance doesn't cover her experimental chemotherapy, and children in Africa don't even have clean water."

Wanting Kyron to be found and wanting your civil liberties are not mutually exclusive.

If she needs a secret phone to satisfy her loss of sexual freedom, fine, if thats the reason, which I have no idea, I think it will be used in a trial to show her true character and what was most important to her after Kyron went missing. I hope she continues to act so absurd and suspicious it strengthens the States case.

 

[debs]

That might hold true under normal circumstances, but this is a child murder/abduction investigation. And let's face it - it's not "everything in your life, your family's lives" - it's a cell phone conversation filled with whatever you choose to fill it with. A friend who calls you to talk about something personal when your child is missing and perhaps murdered and there's an investigation focusing primarily on you is simply not thinking straight. Any friend should understand that as Tony Young said within hours of Kyron missing: yes, for the duration of this investigation you will not have a lot of privacy. You will be investigated, and any secrets that might help find Kyron's abductor will be exposed, for the chance of getting him back. Would there really be a family member who wouldn't understand that and choose to keep their highly personal utterances for a more appropriate time?

yes. A person who is being accused with no proof, whose private utterances were laid out for the whole world to see. As of this moment, there is no proof that Terri is involved, no matter all the speculation and probability. To have her rights trampled on, nee insist that she should have no rights, is a dangerous dangerous slope to slide down.

I should hope it never happens to any citizen of these United States that LE follows the insistence of the masses to violate a person's rights to get the job done.

 

[nursebeeme]

One of the first things a woman should do in the midst of a divorce is get a phone in her name that the husband doesn't have the legal right to access. I can only assume Kaine would have granted LE permission to access the phone and records, and since we know more about what Terri discussed with MC than anyone wanted to know, getting her own phone seems smart. Keeping it out of the "marital financial hassle" is also smart.

This isn't just about a missing child anymore. This is now also about someone's rights. No one has to like that Terri is protected under law while a child is missing. But there is currently no proof that she had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance and any invasion of her privacy because it's legal to do it when her husband says they can invade her life is something her lawyer would work rapidly to close up. The law must show cause to invade a person's life.

more power to terri moulton horman if as a divorced woman she wants to get a cell phone in her own name. I agree with that.

What the thread is about however is the fact that investigators became interested in her friends when they learned that they have purchased her a cell phone... I am not getting how her civil liberties, etc have anything to do with why LE would obtain search warrants for her friends homes, their relatives homes, their computers and phones, etc...


snip from article:

Investigators have been focusing on Terri Moulton Horman's close circle of friends after learning that one of them obtained new cell phones for her

 

[debs]

When her phone was on Kaine's phone bill, it was his phone to offer to LE. They can focus all they want. They'll have to show cause to get the records. That is all.

 

[PoppyH]

If she needs a secret phone to satisfy her loss of sexual freedom, fine, if thats the reason, which I have no idea, I think it will be used in a trial to show her true character and what was most important to her after Kyron went missing. I hope she continues to act so absurd and suspicious it strengthens the States case.

IIRC TY sat them all down and laid it out on the line it is, how things were going to go down, lives would no longer be private, Yet she, Terri, started up a love fest on her phone with Kaines old high school buddy, friend, classmate, whatever he was, who in thier right mind does that?? Could EVEN think about that?? Terri knew, yet she did it anyways. Kyron it seems was the last thing on her mind, Kyron who?? JMO:furious:

 

[JustyThoughts]

Goodness there are so many suppositions and theories about the cell phone. Fact is... we don't know the facts about who or why or when or even if .... related to cell phone.
Interesting information on cell phone spyware; kinda scary too. If LE want/need to learn the "new" cell number (in order to track or monitor) there are spy devices that they would have already used. One can sit in a car across the street from the house she is living in - use thermal imaging; use electronic device mics to pick up on the cell phone electronics; and basically learn all they may choose to know. I am unaware whether the LE subpoenas included use of such technology - if such is required.
Guess we will just continue to ponder and wait..... until facts come to light.

 

[BeanE]

more power to terri moulton horman if as a divorced woman she wants to get a cell phone in her own name. I agree with that.

What the thread is about however is the fact that investigators became interested in her friends when they learned that they have purchased her a cell phone...

BBM. That's not a fact. The reporter doesn't even bother saying where the info came from.

 

[Calliope]

We have no evidence whatsoever that Terri's phone was bugged. This is all unsubstantiated supposition.

I don't think we need evidence that it was. I'm saying that given how her number was published on the internet, and how this spyware works it's reasonable to assume it's a risk and therefore IMO her attorney would advise her to get another phone.

Or to be less paranoid, Kaine deleted her from his calling plan.

Either way. I just don't see why her getting a new phone has people up in arms.

 

[Chablis]

yes. A person who is being accused with no proof, whose private utterances were laid out for the whole world to see. As of this moment, there is no proof that Terri is involved, no matter all the speculation and probability. To have her rights trampled on, nee insist that she should have no rights, is a dangerous dangerous slope to slide down.

I should hope it never happens to any citizen of these United States that LE follows the insistence of the masses to violate a person's rights to get the job done.

So now her rights are being violated because shes the last known person to see a missing child and her phone could be bugged, understandably, and thats a crime against her? She lost her privacy? Thats the main concern?

 

[Jasmine_xoxo]

In fact, the more we sleuth these cases, the more concerned I become about people refusing to get involved for fear of their lives being turned upside down. At what point are we doing more harm than good?

I was wondering the same thing myself.

 

[SurfieTX]

BBM. That's not a fact. The reporter doesn't even bother saying where the info came from.

I guess from the same "reliable source" or "unnamed sources" other news outlets use?

 

[Charlie09]

It would be interesting if, after the publication of the sexting incident, her attorney told her to get throwaway phones.

but....
why would friends get it, why wouldn't she get them?

 

[debs]

So now her rights are being violated because shes the last known person to see a missing child and her phone could be bugged, understandably, and thats a crime against her? She lost her privacy? Thats the main concern?

Until there is proof that Terri committed a crime against Kyron, yes. That is her main concern, as it should be for anyone who hasn't been charged with a crime.

 

[nursebeeme]

yes. A person who is being accused with no proof, whose private utterances were laid out for the whole world to see. As of this moment, there is no proof that Terri is involved, no matter all the speculation and probability. To have her rights trampled on, nee insist that she should have no rights, is a dangerous dangerous slope to slide down.

I should hope it never happens to any citizen of these United States that LE follows the insistence of the masses to violate a person's rights to get the job done.

debs,
respectfully, those "excited utterances" of tmh... are you referring to the sexts? if so, they were in direct relation to violation of a restraining order that a judge signed against her.
1) basis of RO Kaine states wife trying to kill him
2) RO granted by a judge
3) TMH violates restraining order by showing it to MC and allowing him to take pictures of it. Furthermore the sexts, which the lawyer stated was told to Her by LE were similar to the texts that she sent to the landscaper who tried to kill Kaine...

Right there is your tie in and why the sexts to MC are included in violation of the restraining order which was granted.

What rights are being violated of Terri Horman? I don't get it? No one said she couldn't buy her own phone in her name. According to the article that wasn't the issue to begin with

What the article said was that investigators were interested in her friends when they purchased cell phones for her.

They are allowed to be interested! I expect them to be interested... and it seems that it is leading them somewhere because they have enough of a case to try it on for size in front of a Grand Jury. (whether that be mfh or Kyron's vanishing)

moo