Terrorist Attack at Boston Marathon #10 One Suspect Dead; One in Custody

[BigCat]

The DM is a tabloid and sells gossip and sensationalism. I take their 'news' with a large pinch of salt.

I hear ya. But since the ex-girlfriend is not anonymous, I think that matters little in this case.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Re: Second autopsy, body storage

Second autopsy can confirm results of first autopsy or has sometimes turned up new findings. Seem to be done most often in high profile murder cases, sometimes years after original burial. (Wife #2 of Murderer Drew Peterson exhumed after 5 years or so and evidence of bruising not noted at first autopsy was found.)

Condition of body would be dependent on several factors, including quality and thoroughness of the initial embalming process and quality of the vault into which coffin was placed.

In a hospital, at the morgue, and initially at the funeral home, a body is stored in a refrigerator. Most have seen a TV show where someone goes to a morgue and the attendant pulls open a "drawer" on which lays the covered body of the deceased. The body is NOT frozen.

A well embalmed, continuously cooled body can last for a long, long time. During my Anatomy & Physiology studies embalmed cats were dissected. (And I am a cat lover!)
We used the same cat throughout the semester (lab partner and I named him Scruffy), keeping the cat outside the cooler for 1 1/2 hours at a time, 3 days per week. He was fine, no odor but the overwhelming smell of formaldehyde.
--------------------------

Homicide is the "manner of death". Meaning killed by another "man" . As opposed to Suicide, Accident, Natural causes, or Unknown.

I have seen death certificates more than two causes of death listed. Usually when death
was from natural causes. Sometimes a person has multiple illnesses and the ME isn't sure exactly which killed the person.

"Cardiac arrest" is a catchall term meaning the heart stopped. Anyone who is dead had a cardiac arrest. More specific are things like "myocardial infarction" or "severe coronary artery disease", etc.
-----------------------

"Katie's" parents need to sit her down and have the heart-to-heart, "tough love" type of talk they have likely never had with her. This woman is treading into dangerous waters by discontinuing cooperation with the FBI.

They also need to obtain legal advice for themselves, from a source separate than the guy (family attorney?) who is representing their daughter.

Quite frankly, were it my daughter under these exact circumstances I would be telling her "First of all, if you think you are staying in my house any longer, you are going to immediately rip that scarf off you head! After that, you are going to CALL the FBI yourself and tell them you will give them ANY and ALL information they want, WHENEVER they want it.

If this is not acceptable to you, then YOU can leave this house. Right now. And DON'T plan on taking that baby with you. Because I think it is likely that you have already exposed her to a LOT of potential danger. Do you realize that you are putting yourself in a position to possibly having your child taken away from you? Of going to jail for obstruction of justice?"

IMO

 

[CuriousGrace]

The car jacked man is not a key witness. He didn't see anything other than his SUV and ATM card getting taken away. what DT and TT told him in the car is really of no relevance. The Feds don't need his testimony to make the case.

I would say his statements are significant to the case, he is currently the only witness included in the criminal complaint. All other allegations are based on video footage at the Boston marathon and that particular footage outlined has not been released to the public yet.

 

[tezi]

Clearly more people want to commit such acts than actually do. So that's not really a sufficient answer.

Well, apparently for me it is. It may not be for you.

We can agree to disagree.

JMO, IMO, :moo:, and all other disclaimers.

 

[Elainera]

Yes, there is a reason for me to want to know what killed him. Because I'm curious, because it will give more clues as to what happened during the shootout, it will help me to understand if he was indeed a suicide bomber or if he made any attempt to live, it will tell me if the bombs they made in his kitchen and that they were throwing at police exploded early or too close to him (which we've heard rumors of) and contributed to his death, because that will help me to understand in part how skilled they were at making bombs, which will help me to understand in part how experienced, how practiced, how trained they were. It will give me some peace to know if/that he was close to being taken alive by police. And if police were being honest when they reported that his brother killed him. It will tell me if his crazy mother will be forced to acknowledge that one of her sons contributed to the death of the other son, which will give me some sense of personal satisfaction considering the offensive things she's said about the "fake" bombing and the accusations of my government and my police force "murdering" her son. That's just off the top of my head.

I can't even fathom why someone would assume that if anyone wanted to know the cause of death, it's because we somehow think he didn't deserve it? That makes no sense to me.

I also don't understand why people keep posting arguments insisting these two are terrorists as if someone is actually arguing against them? Who is debating this? Who has said they are not guilty, are not terrorists, or don't deserve punishment?

Thank you Ami, another great post.

There have been a lot of excuses made for their actions.
Especially DT's.

No, not excuses. Explanations.

Why these two men became terrorists is a very vital and potent question in this case.

What evidence is there that TT became disaffected with the US? I have only seen some suggestion that at some point he decided to live more in accordance with his Muslim faith and that occasionally he disagreed allegedly with some opinions of some others of his faith. Nothing extraordinary there IMO.

There are also some suggestions that he found some aspects of western culture difficult and there's an apparent (undated) comment by him that he 'didn't have any American friends' but there's nothing unusual about immigrants feeling more comfortable with people of their own ethnic or cultural backgrounds. Was his 'radical' viewpoint (if there was one) really directed at America, or at oppressions and perceived injustices in his homeland? We don't know yet.

I also don't make anything of the fact that he was the main caregiver for his child. Someone had to work and it's likely that KR's chances of employment were much better than his because of his lack of full citizenship. Reversed roles are very common these days for various reasons and it eliminates having to pay for childcare. I just don't see being a 'stay at home dad' as evidence of laziness, any more than I would for a mother to do it.

bbm - I recall an interesting point an expert on jihad and Islam made in a CNN interview: that for extremists the cause becomes globalized, it's not about a particular country, government or faith anymore. That they will attack just about anybody, anywhere.

Devon, I read your posts and they are interesting. You certainly have the right to ask questions and analyse known facts. However, sometimes it is helpful to let yourself be guided by your feelings and your intuition too and infer from there to reach probable and likely scenarios.

For example, you say "I just don't see being a 'stay at home dad' as evidence of laziness, any more than I would for a mother to do it." The fact that TT was a 'stay at home dad' is certainly no evidence for anything but we can assume, given the male oriented culture and family he grew up in, and given the macho image of himself he tried to portray, that this situation likely frustrated and angered, maybe even embarrassed him very much. A frustrated person, harbouring anger and resentment inside, is much more likely to resort to aggression and violence than a happy and fulfilled person. Even in court such inferring and reasoning is allowed and used to present a better and fuller picture of perps, witnesses, and victims alike, and the likely scenarios and circumstances surrounding a crime.

Hard fact are not always needed to understand the truth.

 

[stmarysmead]

I would love to see him denied a Muslim burial. Because I do believe that this perversion of the true Muslim faith has not only done such horrific damage to the many victims of its terror...but it has done real damage to all who practice the peaceful true faith.

In the same way, I would hope to see a Catholic who blew up an abortion clinic, killing and maiming, denied a Catholic burial.

There used to be a concept of refusing to bury on "sacred ground." I dont know if any such thing exists in the Muslim faith, but I would like to see this Terrorist denied by fellow Muslims in the way that Amish used to shun their own.

Let this Bomber be anathema....a lesson to all on the fringes from the Islamic community in America. Rejected and denied by the true adherents of the Faith that he blasmephimized with his twisted views.

 

[Minette]

Keep in mind that information posted by the news media, even if it is 'leaked by a source close to the investigation' is not the same as a fact presented in court. So whatever Danny might have said on CNN, what is important is what he told LE in official statements. But I think there will be more than enough forensic evidence as well as video evidence and eye-witness statements to prove beyond a shadow of any doubt that the brothers T. committed all the acts of which they are accused.

It is interesting to speculate on why they did what they did, but I don't find that any of the factors brought up mitigate their guilt in any way whatsoever.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

 

[danzn16]

Can someone please link me to the posts where it discusses what type of heart surgery TT is said to have had? I missed those posts and can't find them. I know a poster has said they are tired of talking about what killed TT so I apologize for my post. But I am in the medical field and have not ever seen an incision site right there, although I am not a heart surgery expert whatsoever, but I am interested in learning about the procedure if there is one. I would greatly appreciate the help

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

 

[ctkid]

http://tinyurl.com/brg4zwj

Legal experts say feds are pressuring widow, friends to co-operate in marathon bombing probe


Russell's lawyers say she's speaking with FBI agents. The students' attorneys say their clients didn't know about the plot.

 

[ctkid]

http://tinyurl.com/c2j7z4y

Tsarnaev Wife Refuses To Talk: Widow Katherine Russell Refuses To Talk To FBI; Lawyer Amto DeLuca Says She Is Still Mourning

 

[ctkid]

So which one is it? Talking or not?

 

[tezi]

Therein lies the rub. Fortunately most people in society have a moral and ethical CONSCIENCE.

Exactly. And apparently, it was severely lacking in both TT and DT. Plus, the other three who were arrested. And TT's wife seems to have lost her conscience as well.

JMO, IMO, :moo:, and all other disclaimers.

 

[tezi]

So which one is it? Talking or not?

Got me, I would think that she would want to help the authorities if she wants to see her daughter grow up with at least one parent. Because, IMO, things aren't looking too good for that right now.

IMO, JMO, :moo:, and all other disclaimers.

 

[sorrell skye]

What evidence is there that TT became disaffected with the US? I have only seen some suggestion that at some point he decided to live more in accordance with his Muslim faith and that occasionally he disagreed allegedly with some opinions of some others of his faith. Nothing extraordinary there IMO.

There are also some suggestions that he found some aspects of western culture difficult and there's an apparent (undated) comment by him that he 'didn't have any American friends' but there's nothing unusual about immigrants feeling more comfortable with people of their own ethnic or cultural backgrounds. Was his 'radical' viewpoint (if there was one) really directed at America, or at oppressions and perceived injustices in his homeland? We don't know yet.

I also don't make anything of the fact that he was the main caregiver for his child. Someone had to work and it's likely that KR's chances of employment were much better than his because of his lack of full citizenship. Reversed roles are very common these days for various reasons and it eliminates having to pay for childcare. I just don't see being a 'stay at home dad' as evidence of laziness, any more than I would for a mother to do it.

BBM1: When TT traveled to Russia last year for 6 months & told his father that he didn't want to return to the US, but wanted to bring his wife & child over to Dagestan to live, that is possible evidence that TT had become dissatisfied with living in the US. Anzor Tsarneav has stated in interviews that he forced Tamerlan to return to the US. If he had to be forced to return, this suggests to me that Tamerlan was likely disaffected with the US.

When TT said "I don't have a single American friend. I don't understand them" - that is possible evidence that he was unhappy living in the US & felt no kindred spirit with Americans. Thousands of ex-pats manage to "settle themselves" (using Uncle Ruslan's words) in the US & make American friends. Tamerlan married an American - did he not consider his American wife his 'friend'? At any rate, I think Tamerlan was unhappy because he chose to be unhappy, rather than devote energy to creating a happy life when he had every opportunity to do so.

BBM2: I don't consider a stay-at-home parent lazy, either. I think it's best if a child can be home with a parent during the first few years of their lives. Raising a child (if done properly) is challenging, yet rewarding work.

However, I DO consider a father lazy if the mother is working double-shifts 7 days a week (as reported by KR's attorney) to support her family & misses out on sharing time with her child.

Lack of full citizenship wouldn't have prevented him from gaining employment. Thousands of determined immigrants manage to find jobs to support themselves & their families. IMO, TT didn't work because he didn't want to work.

Instead, he chose to spend his time & energy constructing bombs that he used to murder & maim innocent people.

 

[noodled1]

Keep in mind that information posted by the news media, even if it is 'leaked by a source close to the investigation' is not the same as a fact presented in court. So whatever Danny might have said on CNN, what is important is what he told LE in official statements. But I think there will be more than enough forensic evidence as well as video evidence and eye-witness statements to prove beyond a shadow of any doubt that the brothers T. committed all the acts of which they are accused.

It is interesting to speculate on why they did what they did, but I don't find that any of the factors brought up mitigate their guilt in any way whatsoever.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Bingo, well said

 

[noodled1]

Can someone please link me to the posts where it discusses what type of heart surgery TT is said to have had? I missed those posts and can't find them. I know a poster has said they are tired of talking about what killed TT so I apologize for my post. But I am in the medical field and have not ever seen an incision site right there, although I am not a heart surgery expert whatsoever, but I am interested in learning about the procedure if there is one. I would greatly appreciate the help

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

You might try searching on google "reviving TT" or some variation on that. using his actual name of course

i have no idea where it is here. I know we discussed it at length and there's a detailed post on the efforts they used to revive him explaining the large slit in his side they cut (there's even a couple graphics) but that was a number of days ago in a thread long since locked

 

[Elainera]

"Katie's" parents need to sit her down and have the heart-to-heart, "tough love" type of talk they have likely never had with her. This woman is treading into dangerous waters by discontinuing cooperation with the FBI.

They also need to obtain legal advice for themselves, from a source separate than the guy (family attorney?) who is representing their daughter.

Quite frankly, were it my daughter under these exact circumstances I would be telling her "First of all, if you think you are staying in my house any longer, you are going to immediately rip that scarf off you head! After that, you are going to CALL the FBI yourself and tell them you will give them ANY and ALL information they want, WHENEVER they want it.

If this is not acceptable to you, then YOU can leave this house. Right now. And DON'T plan on taking that baby with you. Because I think it is likely that you have already exposed her to a LOT of potential danger. Do you realize that you are putting yourself in a position to possibly having your child taken away from you? Of going to jail for obstruction of justice?"

IMO

respectfully snipped for space

ITA with you. I would talk to her in that way if she were my daughter.

I would say his statements are significant to the case, he is currently the only witness included in the criminal complaint. All other allegations are based on video footage at the Boston marathon and that particular footage outlined has not been released to the public yet.

Keep in mind that information posted by the news media, even if it is 'leaked by a source close to the investigation' is not the same as a fact presented in court. So whatever Danny might have said on CNN, what is important is what he told LE in official statements. But I think there will be more than enough forensic evidence as well as video evidence and eye-witness statements to prove beyond a shadow of any doubt that the brothers T. committed all the acts of which they are accused.

It is interesting to speculate on why they did what they did, but I don't find that any of the factors brought up mitigate their guilt in any way whatsoever.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Re the video footage from the bombings at the marathon: we have not been shown the full footage and all available photos but in the 17 pages long complaint filed against the three friends it was described. Frankly, I have to say it didn't sound 100% convincing to me. If all they can see in the video footage is what is described in this complaint, I could imagine a clever defence attorney poking holes in it.

I will try and find the link to the complaint again, or if anyone has it at hand please post it again. TY

Can someone please link me to the posts where it discusses what type of heart surgery TT is said to have had? I missed those posts and can't find them. I know a poster has said they are tired of talking about what killed TT so I apologize for my post. But I am in the medical field and have not ever seen an incision site right there, although I am not a heart surgery expert whatsoever, but I am interested in learning about the procedure if there is one. I would greatly appreciate the help

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

He didn't get heart surgery. I'm sorry, I also cannot find any posts right now but I remember that it was somewhere said that during the resuscitation attempt they cut at the side to relieve pressure on the heart due to fluids in the chest cavity, if that makes sense to you.

There is this link to an external site where the EM doctors explained what they had done when TT was brought in.

The trauma team put a breathing tube in the patient’s throat, Dr. Schoenfeld said, then cut open his chest to see if blood or other fluid was collecting around his heart.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-marathon-bombings.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
(you have to scroll down quite a bit)

You could also try and pm Ray_of_hope, he/she was attempting to explain details of the cause of death and the circumstances.

So which one is it? Talking or not?

I'm also confused!

 

[sorrell skye]

The car jacked man is not a key witness. He didn't see anything other than his SUV and ATM card getting taken away. what DT and TT told him in the car is really of no relevance. The Feds don't need his testimony to make the case.

I doubt that "Danny" is considered a 'key' witness (regarding the Marathon bombings), but it's likely he may be called to testify regarding the events of the carjacking & what he may have been told by the 2 terrorists, as well as what he may have observed during the course of his kidnapping. Frankly, I'm surprised that aggravated kidnapping charges haven't been tacked onto DT's other charges (since Danny was allegedly kidnapped @ gunpoint).

 

[jjenny]

You might try searching on google "reviving TT" or some variation on that. using his actual name of course

i have no idea where it is here. I know we discussed it at length and there's a detailed post on the efforts they used to revive him explaining the large slit in his side they cut (there's even a couple graphics) but that was a number of days ago in a thread long since locked

Yes, it was on one of our earlier threads. There was a graphic posted with a person having a cut on his side to explain the procedure.
But I don't feel like looking through all our threads to find it.

 

[Elainera]

Re the video footage from the bombings at the marathon: we have not been shown the full footage and all available photos but in the 17 pages long complaint filed against the three friends it was described. Frankly, I have to say it didn't sound 100% convincing to me. If all they can see in the video footage is what is described in this complaint, I could imagine a clever defence attorney poking holes in it.

I will try and find the link to the complaint again, or if anyone has it at hand please post it again. TY

Quoting myself

This is the link to the complaint:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/138931281/Criminal-Complaint-Against-Azamat-Tazhayakov-And-Dias-Kadyrbayev

What had me worried is on page 6, point 13 onwards. It describes DT's position, action and movements prior and just after the bombings. What concerns me are words such as "it appears that" and "apparently".

And for all who might now think I'm trying to find excuses - I don't! I firmly believe that TT and DT are responsible for these two bombings. I just wonder whether it will hold up in court if they can't actually see him putting his knapsack down, if it only "appears" that he did so, or "apparently" did so. I sounds like the video footage does not clearly show that he had the knapsack on him when he stopped in front of that restaurant. So, defence could argue that he left it somewhere else, and another person put the knapsack with the bomb in that spot.

Again, I don't believe that this is what happened, but what I or anyone else believes is mostly irrelevant in court.

What do you all think? Is the description of DT's action clear? Will it be enough evidence? Or is it only circumstantial?