GUILTY Thailand - David Miller, 24, & Hannah Witheridge, 23, Koh Tao, 15 Sep 2014

[ChuckieD]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/terrified-pal-murdered-brit-pair-4303495

brand new video of SM from the telegraph newspaper:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-crgOK3QOw

Thanks for that, I didn't want to create an account on the Telegraph site.

I'm still :fence: This is all very odd. An exceptionally busy week for him from the very outset.

Does anybody have a link his original TV interview earlier during the week?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Have a look at the fb Koh Tao Community page.

Not a shred of support for SMc. Weird?

 

[sar2them1984]

Mmmm he certainly doesn't seem flavour of the month. I asked last night when it was happening whether it was for real. Something just does not add up for me

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I watched it all unfold late last night (midnight ish UK time) but most of the comments have bee removed this morning. SMc has made the mistake of getting his name out there, which could be misconstrued as attention seeking or guilt. Last night I was worried for him and thought he was brave for outing the alleged killer/s, today I am scratching my head as to why he has zero support from the community. Interesting he has been pictured with his guitar - weren't they looking for a group of people singing western songs on the night of the murder.

Whenever someone comes to the fore of a murder case, by speaking to the press etc, I think of Ian Huntley

 

[sar2them1984]

He seems to have gotten a bit of a reputation on the island... Not saying hes lying just that I think most people on the island who know him don't believe he is trustworthy

 

[ChuckieD]

Have a look at the fb Koh Tao Community page.

Not a shred of support for SMc. Weird?

Seems everybody thinks he's a lunatic. JMO, I think he's full of crap. His very first post on Dave Miller's page sat uncomfortably with me and so has everything he's done since.

Dressed as a pirate for a month?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I saw that bit about the pirate, Chuckie. He could well have take too much of something over the years (on another forum there is mention of his twitter posts mentioned red pills) .... but I'm on the fence. I assume he has been DNA tested and time will tell. Damning comments from other westerners though, really odd.

I do believe the Thai police will want the killer to be non Thai - better for tourism and I understand that. However, I'm still leaning towards the "argument in bar / saving face" theory. For now!

 

[jellybeanz]

Looking at pic of poi with dark hair on left and wondering if that is actually a man wearing a woman`s wig...

I think that is the same guy on the left of two men SMcA photographed from inside the shop. Same hairstyle.

this all adds up to me and seems extremely likely re the mafia and gangsters in cahoots with local police. As i wrote a few days ago-finding a scapegoat is customary.very interesting forum discussion here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic...-may-have-argued-in-bar-with-gangster/page-15 let's hope this all blows up and reveals the sordid truth and there is real justice.

Again, I think the guy they are talking about (shown in the attachment pic. post 351) is the same guy in the pic SMcA photographed from the shop that I just mentioned in the reply to dotr. He also has very small feet.

He is seen in a few media pics/video now, hanging about the crime scene.

 

[dotr]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...urders-of-two-British-backpackers-in-Thailand

"During a 2012/13 New Year's Eve party, Stephen Ashton, 22, from London, was killed in a bar on Haad Rin beach on the Thai island of Koh Phangan - a resort where the FCO warns British travellers to beware "vicious, unprovoked attacks by gangs".

Such attacks are particularly common around the time of the popular full-moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars in Haad Rin, according to the FCO.

Violent assaults and robberies have also been reported in the resort town of Chaweng in Koh Samui, as well as attacks in other tourist districts of Chiang Mai, Pattaya and Krabi.

In July last year an American man was stabbed to death, while his son was left seriously injured in an vicious attack in a bar in Krabi.

Travellers are also warned to beware scams, pickpockets, bag-snatchers and credit card fraud.

bbm

 

[gia2]

SMcA stated that the man on the left of the picture he posted was the owner of AC Bar and was responsible for the murders. Several local people have stated that the man pictured is NOT the owner of AC bar, in fact he owns a different club all together. SMCA's story seems to be really unclear.

Reading the local people's comments online seems to be very insightful. From local accounts, things didn't go down last night the way SMcA has reported they did. The strange FB posts combined with the local reports of SMcA's character and disputes about the events of last night make me think he is not a healthy, well functioning person.

I feel very sad for David and Hannah's families if this is indeed fantasy.

 

[sar2them1984]

On my phobe and its not letting me link atm but the Daily mail have run with this story. As far fetched as it is u was willing to believe it until I got to the part where Sean stated he spent the night wandering the forest to hide from them amd sleeping under a pool table. There and then I thought this is somebody who is not fully mentally stable.

I too have read that the individual he has named us not the ac nightclub owner. You would think he would get that right seeings as he supposedly works there

 

[ChuckieD]

I just stumbled on a Thai video which shows Ware ID'ing Dave Miller to the Thai police. He looks dumbfounded, poor guy.

 

[jellybeanz]

plus, in the thai visa forum "gangster" above there is a link to a photo that i think appeared in daily mail right at beginning of investigation with someone pictured with police on sairee beach who several are confirming(including some posters who are either on the island or resident locally) is the same guy who was in the photos posted to s.m's facebook...

to all the doubters of SM:- from my personal experience when i was told my sister was at risk of attack whilst staying on koh phangan-the same guy who warned me then had his dog sleep outside our door every night to protect us.it doesn't sound to me like sm is exaggerating at all in terms of the the very real and justifiable fear he experienced.

I don't think he is exaggerating either.

Also, to people having a pop at the guy, the locals on the FB community page have vested interests and also an element of fear so will comment accordingly.

 

[jellybeanz]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/616813668403897/permalink/709002142518382/

Could hold evidence?

 

[hunch77]

I read that too on the koh tao community fb page.
I'm thinking a few things:
1.There are many people who have an intense "party" lifestyle on these islands-alcohol, acid etc and there are certainly casualties of heavy drug use who haven't fully recovered from strong "trips" they've taken. These places also attract people escaping from various things.In short, plenty of untrustworthy spaced out characters. That's why I don't think, If SM was a bit this way inclined, that it implicitly indicates he was involved in the crime or that he is lying. He is one of many party heads of which many are not very "healthy or well functioning" contextually in that sort of place.
2. I find it feasible that losing a close friend in such a brutal way on your own doorstep could easily induce extreme paranoia. This also does not mean what he has said is untrue. He may be in a state of shock and trauma. If he was very very drunk last night as some on the koh tao fb forum have said he was. This also does not mean what he says is a lie.
I can imagine myself freaking out completely and feeling/believing noone and nowhere is safe in a situation such as this , on a remote island after a brutal murder.. What would a "normal reaction" to an event like this be??? Is there such a thing?
3. I have read that he was a very close friend of DM. I read they lived together whilst at university.
4.I also read that although SM had only been on koh tao for a week and a half or two weeks max he had previously lived and worked there for 18 months.
5. Is it possible that the guys who accosted him genuinely were wondering if he was guilty and were planning some vigilante action?

I'm interested to know what occurs over the next few days, am hoping SM makes it safely out of thailand and that justice is served and the truth discovered.

 

[hunch77]

in this situation many extreme responses eg nervous breakdown, hypervigilance, paranoia would actually be psychologically normal reactions to feeling in danger:fight/flight/fright.desperate times, desperate measures?

 

[gia2]

I read that too on the koh tao community fb page.
I'm thinking a few things:
1.There are many people who have an intense "party" lifestyle on these islands-alcohol, acid etc and there are certainly casualties of heavy drug use who haven't fully recovered from strong "trips" they've taken. These places also attract people escaping from various things.In short, plenty of untrustworthy spaced out characters. That's why I don't think, If SM was a bit this way inclined, that it implicitly indicates he was involved in the crime or that he is lying. He is one of many party heads of which many are not very "healthy or well functioning" contextually in that sort of place.
2. I find it feasible that losing a close friend in such a brutal way on your own doorstep could easily induce extreme paranoia. This also does not mean what he has said is untrue. He may be in a state of shock and trauma. If he was very very drunk last night as some on the koh tao fb forum have said he was. This also does not mean what he says is a lie.
I can imagine myself freaking out completely and feeling/believing noone and nowhere is safe in a situation such as this , on a remote island after a brutal murder.. What would a "normal reaction" to an event like this be??? Is there such a thing?
3. I have read that he was a very close friend of DM. I read they lived together whilst at university.
4.I also read that although SM had only been on koh tao for a week and a half or two weeks max he had previously lived and worked there for 18 months.
5. Is it possible that the guys who accosted him genuinely were wondering if he was guilty and were planning some vigilante action?

I'm interested to know what occurs over the next few days, am hoping SM makes it safely out of thailand and that justice is served and the truth discovered.

The reports state he is off the island now, so thankfully he is safe. Whatever happened he needed to get away from that environment!

I don't think anyone has implied that if SMcA's story isn't entirely accurate it would mean SMcA had something to do with the crimes. There is no evidence at all to suggest his involvement. Much more likely he is in a state of shock and anxiety due to what has happened to his friend.

There is a big difference between lying and not giving an accurate account of what happened. I don't believe he is lying but I also am not going to accept his story unquestioningly. Same with the comments on the FB pages discussing the reports about it, I read them as a guide to what people are thinking but not as fact in itself. SMcA stated in the video that he had been drinking. He clearly is in a bad way emotionally after what happened. It would be very easy for an extremely distressed, shocked, anxious and drunk person to read too much in to comments made about the murder of their friend. I could imagine them becoming defensive if pressed to answer upsetting questions or pushed too far in a verbal confrontation. If you felt someone had threatened you in those circumstances I'm sure the fear would escalate out of control very quickly. I think this would be a natural response. The account he gave after would of course be true to him, but not objectively so. So that is why I'm suggesting it may not be a true account, not suggesting he is lying.

It's hard to know what people on the island are thinking, but it wouldn't make sense if they believed SMcA had something to do with the crime. It's well known the suspects are Asian men. Still I suppose some people could have been looking for trouble and trying to provoke him into a fight or something, so he could have been responding to being accosted.

It must have been absolutely terrifying last night for him though, to believe you are being hunted by the killers of your friend.

 

[hunch77]

I concur gia2. There is alot of information missing right now. I was just responding in part to some of what comes across like pure venom directed towards him on koh tao fb group and also wanted to offer some objective balance to judgements of his character that are being drawn from his twitter account and fb by contextualising this notion of "crazy."
It may be that he was not popular character in that small community, which would actually make him a very likely candidate for scapegoating....

 

[Lola68]

I read that too on the koh tao community fb page.
I'm thinking a few things:
1.There are many people who have an intense "party" lifestyle on these islands-alcohol, acid etc and there are certainly casualties of heavy drug use who haven't fully recovered from strong "trips" they've taken. These places also attract people escaping from various things.In short, plenty of untrustworthy spaced out characters. That's why I don't think, If SM was a bit this way inclined, that it implicitly indicates he was involved in the crime or that he is lying. He is one of many party heads of which many are not very "healthy or well functioning" contextually in that sort of place.
2. I find it feasible that losing a close friend in such a brutal way on your own doorstep could easily induce extreme paranoia. This also does not mean what he has said is untrue. He may be in a state of shock and trauma. If he was very very drunk last night as some on the koh tao fb forum have said he was. This also does not mean what he says is a lie.
I can imagine myself freaking out completely and feeling/believing noone and nowhere is safe in a situation such as this , on a remote island after a brutal murder.. What would a "normal reaction" to an event like this be??? Is there such a thing?
3. I have read that he was a very close friend of DM. I read they lived together whilst at university.
4.I also read that although SM had only been on koh tao for a week and a half or two weeks max he had previously lived and worked there for 18 months.
5. Is it possible that the guys who accosted him genuinely were wondering if he was guilty and were planning some vigilante action?

I'm interested to know what occurs over the next few days, am hoping SM makes it safely out of thailand and that justice is served and the truth discovered.

I've never been to Thailand and wouldn't dare to post on some of the sites that people have cited, but I've never been judged for expressing my opinion here eace: ! Having read the posts on the Koh Tao FB page, Thai Visa and local news sites, I agree it looks like SM is freaking out (even if he didn't know David, it's a pretty horrific thing to be caught up in, regardless of how "psychologically stable" you may be). - by his own admission, he got drunk; sounds like he then mouthed off about his feelings/theories - possibly throwing out a few wild accusations - which has riled the local expat community (assuming they're not 'in' with the mafia). And now he's terrified of retribution. He's not responsible for what happened to Hannah - he may have witnessed something or just become extremely paranoid, but even if he's lying about this, his DNA has cleared him.

Given the backlash from people on the island, I thought he might just be a media hungry fantasist, but when I read into it, it sounds like he was genuinely scared (he called his mother, girlfriend, Thai police and the British Embassy - although who has their number on speed dial??).

Someone posted earlier that it's interesting that a number of Western news outlets have picked this up but not Thai (this may have changed) - I agree, but it could also be Western journalists clutching at anything they have because the Thai police are not being very forthcoming...

Sorry if this has been posted previously, but is there a link indicating that SM was a friend of DM at uni?

 

[ChuckieD]

Sorry if this has been posted previously, but is there a link indicating that SM was a friend of DM at uni?

There's a picture of them together that he posted on DM's wall and changed his profile pic to. The guy has hundreds and hundreds on pics on his FB page spanning across several years, I scanned through them and didn't see any more of DM or them together. Just because they went to uni together it doesn't mean they were best mates or even very good friends at all, I wouldn't be surprised if SM has exaggerated how close they truly were.

I don't think he has anything to do with the murders. I do, however, think he is an attention seeker and a fantasist and has probably needed some psychological help for some time. JMO.