The 90 minutes Terri spent driving around--Do you believe it?

[Trident]

The child could be teething, but if you are driving for 90 minutes with a sick baby, and then you decide to take her to a public daycare and expose her to germs, well, then thats disgusting. Just because the child was teething does not mean she was automatically sick, and if my child wasn't pacified after 90 minutes, there would be a drive to a hospital, not a gym so I could selfishly get my cardio in.

There are many ways to parent. I followed the old fashioned way and it worked out well for me. My daughters race their kids to the doctor and they're always sick - I think they catch it in the doctor's office sometimes. I can't put Terri down for not running to the doctor or the emergency room. If the baby was teething it would have been rather pointless, expensive, and would have taken time away from a possibly sicker child.

But, this is just my opinion, and each must do what they must do.

 

[BeanE]

It was a KATU article, BeanE.

http://www.katu.com/
news/99151549.html

Between 10:10 in the morning and 11:39, Terri claimed she drove her daughter BabyK around on rural roads in the family’s white truck because BabyK had an earache. She claimed she was trying to soothe the toddler with the motion of the vehicle.

Thank you so much, Tuffy! :blowkiss:

 

[YellowSubmarine]

At the moment, I don't believe she drove baby for 90 min to soothe her. I would possibly change my mind, however, if we hear that this is something she did quite often, or, as necessary.

My oldest (14), used to fight falling to sleep like no other. He'd get so tired and miserable that I would drive him around - BUT only for about 10-15 min. I couldn't imagine driving a baby around for 60-90 min for the sole purpose of soothing them.

I especially don't believe this because baby was sick. JMO, but it almost seems cruel to strap a sick baby into a carseat and drag them around that long. When my kids are sick, the last thing I want to do is take them anywhere. My 5 y/o has been sick with a fever, earache and sore throat the last few days. I've put as much as possible on hold so that I don't have to make him sit in the uncomfortable car and get in and out.

I *might* believe this story if TH had taken baby right home. Couldn't be soothed at home and took her out for a drive. NOT drug her around to two different FM's (for the record, I DO NOT believe whatever otc med TH wanted was not at the 1st FM), then to Starbucks and the gym. Plus, when Kaine got home, it seems there was no mention of baby being sick. No questioning whether she was too sick to make the long drive to drop Kyron off.

There's just too many factors here that don't make sense for me to believe it. As Ms. Judge Judy says "If it doesn't make sense, then it isn't the truth!"

 

[STEADFAST]

THE THIRD FOCUS IS SEEKING ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE TRUCK AT TWO FRED MEYER STORES (LOCATIONS AND TIMES PHOTOGRAPHED AND LISTED ON THE NEXT PAGE)

Here's the time listed on the next page:
Walker Rd - DID YOU SEE THE TRUCK AT APPROXIMATELY 10:00 AM?


AS WELL AS ON OR NEAR SKYLINE BOULEVARD BETWEEN APPROXIMATELY SPRINGVILLE ROAD & NEWBERRY ROAD INCLUDING ON OR AROUND GERMANTOWN ROAD AND / OR OLD GERMANTOWN ROAD AT APPROXIMATELY 10:15 AM TO 11:30 AM

LE says approximately 10:15 to 11:30. That's a 75 minute timerange. What's important about that is that LE doesn't say that Terri drove around for 75 minutes or 90 minutes or anything else. They don't mention Terri around these roads at all. They simply ask, quite vaguely actually, for "any additional information about the truck".

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf

I'll start digging for the first reference to 90 minutes.

IMO, the roads they listed are the roads Terri claimed to have been driving on. I don't think LE believes she was on these roads necessarily.

 

[epiphany]

Vincent Iannelli, M.D.,: Keep in mind that many experts do believe that teething doesn't cause any symptoms for most children and that 'teething is the scapegoat for many other events occurring between about 6 and 24 months of age.'

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/teething/a/0107_teething.htm

Time to change beliefs
The study did not confirm the expected strong association between tooth eruption and a host of teething symptoms in children six to 30 months old. These findings "contrast with strong parent and professional beliefs to the contrary," noted the lead researcher, Dr. Melissa Wake. Such beliefs might actually be harmful because they get in the way of optimal management of common illnesses and behavior in children. "It is time to relinquish our long-held cultural beliefs about teething… and to start to manage the issues of late infancy and toddlerhood more effectively," she wrote.

http://www.ynhh.org/healthlink/pediatrics/pediatrics_1_01.html

If it took 90 minutes to soothe teething baby>get her to the pediatrician.

If Terri felt there was no infection>take baby out of the car, and find an activity to do with her to keep her occupied.

 

[tehcloser]

IMO, the roads they listed are the roads Terri claimed to have been driving on. I don't think LE believes she was on these roads necessarily.

That's what I thought too at first....but would those be considered rural roads? So now I'm thinking just the opposite. She said rural but someone said they saw her in the area they are asking about...but who knows. :crazy:

ETA Quote:

Between 10:10 in the morning and 11:39, Terri claimed she drove her daughter Baby K around on rural roads in the family’s white truck because Kiara had an earache


http://www.katu.com/news/99151549.html

 

[Emma Peel]

IMO, this sort of speculation is interesting only to make the point that not everyone here thinks the same way, or has the same personal life experiences with children and babies and working out, etc.. And thank goodness for that - it's why I'm here.

I certainly have thoughts about this question, but I can not for certain say one way or the other because I don't know Terri or the baby or Kyron.

IMO, all we know is that Terri had a work-out goal that folks in her life knew about, she had a plan to get to the gym that day, and she very likely had a fussy baby she was tending to - cold or teething or ear pain or all of the above. Choices about how to manage your SAHM time & your soothing technique with a fussy baby are highly personal and, frankly, who are we to judge?

The same with the choice to skip they talent show in favor of gym time, if the baby decided to cooperate finally. SAHM's who volunteer already are involved enough in school events to pick & choose which ones are important for them to be at for their children ... again ... who are we to judge?

Especially when no one has come out and criticized Terri's day to day care of the children and the home in her charge.

Anyhoo, I'm not taking part in the poll for reasons stating above - plus I am reluctant to judge given what we have for facts...

IMO, a fact-based analytical/logistical thread about these 90 minutes would be more productive for sleuthing purposes. But it would require the participation of locals who could help clarify the reality of the logistics we analyzed. Hoping a local starts such a thread... right now we know Highway 30 is involved, per Terri's statements...we know we want to look at the 2nd Fred Meyers stop and the gym location(s) ... we want to look at the location where Dede was working ... and we want to measure how to spend 90 minutes of time...

 

[liz b.]

I've driven around for more than an hour to soorhe a colicky baby. I have held a fuusy,teething baby with earache on top of the clothes dryer,while it is operating. Wrapped the baby in a soft blankie. The warmth and repetative movement of the dryer worked like a charm... Bottom line is that moms do whatever will help with babies who are teething etc. I don't automatically disbelieve this part of the narrative. I would wonder why she didn't have a more sturdy alibi.... This is weak,if she planned the whole thing,IMO

All JMO

 

[BeanE]

Two questions -

- Has anyone besides Andrea said baby K was sick? I don't recall that from anyone else.

- For those of you with babies, is a teething baby considered 'sick' nowadays? I've never heard of teething being considered sick, but I'm learning that things have changed since my son was a baby.

 

[epiphany]

If Terri, a SAHM, worked-out 7 days a week, I would not have a problem with that. If Terri skipped out on the talent show, I do not have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with Terri driving around for 90 minutes to soothe her irritable baby on the same day Kyron went missing. Don't buy it for a minute.

 

[Calliope]

Vincent Iannelli, M.D.,: Keep in mind that many experts do believe that teething doesn't cause any symptoms for most children and that 'teething is the scapegoat for many other events occurring between about 6 and 24 months of age.'

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/teething/a/0107_teething.htm

Just above that quote:

Teething Symptoms

In addition to drooling, other teething symptoms can include:

• a decreased appetite for solid foods
• biting
• ear rubbing
• gum rubbing
• irritability
• a rash on your child's face
• sucking
• waking up at night

Time to change beliefs
The study did not confirm the expected strong association between tooth eruption and a host of teething symptoms in children six to 30 months old. These findings "contrast with strong parent and professional beliefs to the contrary," noted the lead researcher, Dr. Melissa Wake. Such beliefs might actually be harmful because they get in the way of optimal management of common illnesses and behavior in children. "It is time to relinquish our long-held cultural beliefs about teething… and to start to manage the issues of late infancy and toddlerhood more effectively," she wrote.

http://www.ynhh.org/healthlink/pediatrics/pediatrics_1_01.html

If it took 90 minutes to soothe teething baby>get her to the pediatrician.

If Terri felt there was no infection>take baby out of the car, and find an activity to do with her to keep her occupied.

Regarding the study in the 2nd link:

Analysis was performed to compare reports of the following with tooth eruption:

• mood
• wellness/illness
• drooling/dribbling
• sleep
• diarrhea
• strong diapers
• red cheeks
• rashes/flush

Minor symptoms, such as drooling, irritability, mild temperature elevation and wakefulness, were all statistically associated with the days just before, during and after teething. More serious problems, however, such as congestion, stool looseness, high fever and cough, were not.

Additionally:

http://www.babymd.net/teething.htm#top

SIMILAR ILLNESSES

EAR INFECTION: Ear infection is most frequent reason to visit a pediatrician for an illness. You are about to learn something that will save you at least one visit to the pediatrician. Teething can mimic an ear infection quite closely except for a few distinct and easy to see differences. Teething gives episodic (comes and goes) pain that is mild, associated with a fever no higher than 102, is not associated with hearing loss and gives a mild runny nose. Ear infections give almost continuous and worsening pain, temperatures above 102, occasionally hearing loss and worsening cold symptoms. Ear infections are rare before 6 months of age (I have seen about 30 in 4 years). Babies below 5 to 6 months of age developmentally cannot reach for a painful ear (In other words, they can't locate the pain and then selectively reach for it, they simply cry and flail their arms and legs). There are always exceptions to the above and sometimes the differences are subtle. Please remember, 60% of ear infections go away on their own and in Europe many doctors don't treat ear infections unless their is no improvement without antibiotics for 2 to 3 days. The problem with the last sentence is that we can't tell which 60% go away on their own and Europe has seen more complications from under treating ear infections (mastoiditis). One more tidbit, most (95%)children with ear infections get their ear pain 2 to 3 days into a cold and the few (5%) that show up with ear pain alone and have an ear infection have very bad pain. The point to take away from this is that closely observing your child and simply watching a few more hours may save you a trip to the doctor.

http://www.medicinenet.com/teething/article.htm

http://www.dentistry.com/daily-dent...eething-guide-for-new-and-experienced-parents

"Ear" pain during teething can be d/t referred pain from the gums. What you've posted discusses other symptom NOT associated with teething.

 

[Trident]

Two questions -

- Has anyone besides Andrea said baby K was sick? I don't recall that from anyone else.

- For those of you with babies, is a teething baby considered 'sick' nowadays? I've never heard of teething being considered sick, but I'm learning that things have changed since my son was a baby.

Yes, yes, they have, and I have two daughters to back that up. Every time you don't take a child to the doctor is a fee out of their pockets, or so "I" have concluded.

I'm not a doctor, nor do I give medical advice. I just comment on what I see and my 6 healthy, grown-up children who didn't add to the wealth of the medical establishment. But that's probably another thread.

 

[DairyGirl]

If Terri, a SAHM, worked-out 7 days a week, I would not have a problem with that. If Terri skipped out on the talent show, I do not have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with Terri driving around for 90 minutes to soothe her irritable baby on the same day Kyron went missing. Don't buy it for a minute.

I agree. If it were Terri's habit to drive with her daughter often for 90 minutes to sooth her it's one thing. But to have a 90 minute chunk of her time unaccounted for on the very same day her step son goes missing is not a coincidence to me.

 

[human]

what if the driving around had a purpose...but not a guilty one?

PURE SPECULATION: Lets say she did buy 2 drinks at starbucks and then she drove around for a while ending up at DD's work. She 'hung out' with DD for awhile (sitting in the car listening to the radio, venting, whatever). And she wanted to protect DD by saying she was just driving around.
I can't remember the timeline (gaw I need to go to bed!) BUT, if she wanted to protect DD from getting fired and decided to just say " I drove around for awhile" it would be stupid (imo) but also innocent.

ALSO what if that was the question she failed on the poly? "Did you drive around because your baby was sick after leaving fm?" she answers yes-because it is partly true, but not really b/c she drove around so that she could vent to her friend.

AND then Kyron becomes missing she thinks if she tells people about being w/ dd then her friend loses her job and TH KNOWS she is innocent, so she is vague and says "I was driving around for awhile and then went to the gym".

DD and TH are both MIA-but innocently. And now, no one is ever going to believe them if they come clean (heck I won't either because they read it off the internet )

Do I think it happened this way? Naw, but the problem w/ this case is that everything can be (at least) partially explained innocently.

an hour and a half...

2 coffee drinks means mucho potty breaks.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I've driven around for more than an hour to soorhe a colicky baby. I have held a fuusy,teething baby with earache on top of the clothes dryer,while it is operating. Wrapped the baby in a soft blankie. The warmth and repetative movement of the dryer worked like a charm... Bottom line is that moms do whatever will help with babies who are teething etc. I don't automatically disbelieve this part of the narrative. I would wonder why she didn't have a more sturdy alibi.... This is weak,if she planned the whole thing,IMO

All JMO

Yes, but would you have drug your colicky or teething baby around town? To two different stores, Starbucks and the gym?

Two questions -

- Has anyone besides Andrea said baby K was sick? I don't recall that from anyone else.

- For those of you with babies, is a teething baby considered 'sick' nowadays? I've never heard of teething being considered sick, but I'm learning that things have changed since my son was a baby.

1. It was stated in the KATU article TH stated she had an earache - of course, that's the media "saying what TH said" :crazy:

2. Going off my most recent experience with my 16 m/o niece, there were many times we thought she was sick - cold or whatnot - then, several days later, a tooth popped out and we'd say "oh, I guess she was teething!". So, there are similar symptoms which should be eased with otc ibuprofin or acetamenephen - but, all babies are different.

Although, wasn't baby about 18 months at the time? That would be too old to be teething. Or am I off on the age?

If Terri, a SAHM, worked-out 7 days a week, I would not have a problem with that. If Terri skipped out on the talent show, I do not have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with Terri driving around for 90 minutes to soothe her irritable baby on the same day Kyron went missing. Don't buy it for a minute.

I agree with all you said! And, if TH wasn't involved in Kyrons disappearance, she's got to be the unluckiest person in the world to choose the same time Kyron went missing to drive aimlessly on rural roads.

 

[human]

Baby K wasn't feeling well the day before either.

So just go ahead and haul the kid around like a sack of potatoes. Whatever.

A cranky kid is not a fun kid in public. I've been to the grocery store. I've been shopping.

I see those frustrated parents who probably have no choice in bringing their children with them. I always make a pleasant comment just to let them know that I understand.

But to bring a cranky kid all over when one does not have to? Why why why?

 

[Emma Peel]

If Terri, a SAHM, worked-out 7 days a week, I would not have a problem with that. If Terri skipped out on the talent show, I do not have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with Terri driving around for 90 minutes to soothe her irritable baby on the same day Kyron went missing. Don't buy it for a minute.

I certainly understand how it looks like it's too coninkidy in the context of this particular day. Especially given that it was strangers-in-the-school Science Fair day and Terri could have attended the Talent show if she wanted to give up a workout. Especially given that we now THINK we know that Dede was not at work for some of this time frame too.

However I go back to the fact that it's 90 minutes, and Terri seems determined to get to the gym this day even though the baby is fussy. And I just don't think THAT's weird. At all. On any day of life with a toddler - that your day could be detoured and plans could be waylaid by 90 minutes of fussy. LOL. Oh my. Don't get me started. Or I'll tell you in detail why it takes 5 hours to get groceries with a toddler and the crib sheets still aren't washed, and the dog hasn't been walked when the school bus brings the older one back home in the afternoon. There is NO better wasted TIME alibi than a toddler, IMO. :floorlaugh: Those were the days! And heaven knows why I miss them!

Now, if only a reliable source would confirm Terri or Dede's purchase of two bat phones June 4th...our work here would be done.

I still think we need to look at where and how one could burn 90 minutes tooling around the areas Terri recalled driving around in Portland.

In the past, I've killed time during gymnastics lessons (for example) as a homeowner curious about getting ideas from other's homes & gardens or just interested in neighborhoods and real estate in general, by driving all around neighborhoods (baby in car) that are within 10 minutes returning distance of where my oldest was taking her gymnastics class. I wasn't thinking about gas or the environment eek) ...I was mostly thinking about peace and quiet and how it was easier to drive the toddler around than try to discipline them at the gymnastics waiting room...on a fussy day, especially...

LOL, enough about me. I sure am saying a lot in this thread for a person who won't vote. :biggrin: I think I I'll shut up now :shutup: and go work in my own garden since I no longer have toddler alibis for those weeds all over the place...

*guilt setting in* :angel:

 

[human]

I've driven around for more than an hour to soorhe a colicky baby. I have held a fuusy,teething baby with earache on top of the clothes dryer,while it is operating. Wrapped the baby in a soft blankie. The warmth and repetative movement of the dryer worked like a charm... Bottom line is that moms do whatever will help with babies who are teething etc. I don't automatically disbelieve this part of the narrative. I would wonder why she didn't have a more sturdy alibi.... This is weak,if she planned the whole thing,IMO

All JMO

I think the strong alibi was needed from 9-10.

As she said, that's when she thought he went missing. Perhaps a huge truth there.

 

[nurseratchett]

I'm not sure, so I did not vote. Was it really 90 minutes? If she left the 2nd FM at 10, say, and went to Starbucks at some point, it could have ended up being an hour or so, depending upon what time she pulled into the gym lot. As lots of you have said, everything takes longer with a baby, and I guess she did have her with her. If it is an hour or so, yeah, I can buy that. My guess is the baby was teething, so not sick in a way she was infectious but just fussy and Terri did not want to go home and risk missing out on her gym session-selfish, to be sure, but not sure homicidally so.

I am just so not sure about anything in this case and each day, I find more reasons to wait it out, instead of less.

Just jumping off your post for clarification on the Starbux issue- the Starbux manager that was in the news clip the other day "appears to me" to be standing in the parking lot of the Starbux that is next to the first FM, the one on NW Imbrie. Just going by the brief interview, trees, landmarks, etc. that what it looks like to me.
The Walker Rd Starbux next to FM has a different look/landscape, etc. I don't know, I guess you have to drive there to "see" the difference, one area just looks "newer" than the other. Of course, the whole West Side reminds me of California anyway.....but I do drive over there more often than I like. I think she was at the NW Imbrie Starbux.
MOO.

 

[goatman]

If Terri, a SAHM, worked-out 7 days a week, I would not have a problem with that. If Terri skipped out on the talent show, I do not have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with Terri driving around for 90 minutes to soothe her irritable baby on the same day Kyron went missing. Don't buy it for a minute.

This is an innocent 'I am curious question'.

IF TH worked out 7 days a week...and then chose not to that day b/c Baby K was ill, would that have made her less guilty? OR would people be saying..."well she usually worked out but that day she didn't" she would have more time to account for.

IF TH usually drove Baby K around that day to calm her, but then on that day didn't and instead she said something like "I was at home rocking her for 90 minutes" would that make her less guilty?

IS it simply the 90 minute hole in her timeline that makes her guilty/unbelievable or the activities she was doing then...

Is the only way she would innocent is if she had a receipt for every hour, or half hour, or quarter hour after she left the school in order to prove she was busy that day? She may very well be guilty, but if we can concretely say 'this is what makes her guilty' I feel like there should be paremeters for what would make her innocent as well...

did that make sense?


ON another note, has LE requested video from business/gas stations/ banks along the route she supposedly taken? If so, does any of that video show a white truck like hers?