The accusation that TH tried to abduct the baby

[Calliope]

JMO but I don't think it was ever claimed that she attempted abduction that day, because it seems like the baby wasn't even there when she came to the gym. At most she made some anticipatory movements to get the possibility to do so on some date in the future. The document says "looking to", not attempt.

Thanks. At that point in time, she didn't know of the RO or divorce filings.

 

[TopTop]

Anyone have a link to the thumbs up video? I haven't seen that one...

 

[Snowball58]

Here's what I think is possible (again, pure speculation):

Friday/Saturday - Kaine finds out about the MFH plot and flips out, police tell him to act normal and calmly prepare to get himself and Baby K out of the house.

Saturday: Kaine leaves with the baby, the 911 calls occur (one of which is about a custody issue, so seems TH knew he was taking the baby). Rumors are circulating about Kaine leaving her but she acts as if everything's normal because she plans to nab Baby K and doesn't want to tip anyone off. Also allows her to play the victim card.

Monday - She goes to the gym, presumably knowing the people who work there pretty well, and thinks she can charm either the baby (if she was there) or info about Kaine's next gym visit out of the childcare worker. Childcare worker immediately reports it and Kaine gets the emergency RO pushed through that same afternoon and Terri is served that evening.

Is this possible or have I screwed up all the dates, lol?

 

[Donjeta]

Thanks. At that point in time, she didn't know of the RO or divorce filings.

She hadn't been served the papers yet but IMO she knew. I doubt very much that she just thought that he left to have a spa holiday.

 

[Calliope]

Why are we all assuming that TH didn't know anything about the RO until it was served? I know she gave reporters the thumbs-up sign, but that seemed so artificial to me. Are we to believe that she just thought these were rumors? That's a bit naive. With the 911 calls and the info that came out about the MFH plot, I don't buy it that she didn't know what was happening until she got served.

Buh-loney.

The petition and order were signed on the 28th, and filed at 4:39 pm. It's possible Kaine hollered at Terri "I'm getting a restraining order against you!" but I seriously doubt that. I doubt she knew about it until she was served. After the botched sting, and when Kaine didn't return with baby, I'm sure she figured out he wasn't planning on coming back, but I don't see that she necessarily knew he'd be filing the RO.

 

[Snowball58]

The petition and order were signed on the 28th, and filed at 4:39 pm. It's possible Kaine hollered at Terri "I'm getting a restraining order against you!" but I seriously doubt that. I doubt she knew about it until she was served. After the botched sting, and when Kaine didn't return with baby, I'm sure she figured out he wasn't planning on coming back, but I don't see that she necessarily knew he'd be filing the RO.

She may not have known about the restraining order, per se, but I bet when she showed up at the gym she darn well knew she wasn't supposed to be taking the baby.

 

[ami]

If she called 911 to report a custody/abduction ("my H took my baby away! help!") - they would have to have said something to her in response. Don't know what they said, but 2 polygraphs, missing step-son, accused of MFH against K, K and baby K gone - there is little chance she was "blindsided" by the RO. My guess is LE told her that they knew for a fact that K and baby K were safe and she would be contacted shortly about it.

 

[Emma Peel]

remember the saturday morning press junket with desiree & kaine...Terri was still officially on their team that morning...although kaine did not seem entirely enthusiastic about Terri's turn at bat...

IIRC, Kaine found out about the murder-for-hire that day after the press interviews while Terri was called to an LE interview of her own.

I think Kaine was very likely advised by LE to get himself & baby out of the house for their own safety, to do it immediately, and without warning, while they had Terri otherwise occupied Saturday with an LE interview and then a little sting op.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

She may not have known about the restraining order, per se, but I bet when she showed up at the gym she darn well knew she wasn't supposed to be taking the baby.

I agree. Whatever her intentions were, they probably weren't on the up and up. If she had innocently wanted to see Kaine or the baby, she would have called Kaine. He's not answering? Try his parents. No luck there? Go to LE or your lawyer. Try child services. Although I'm not sure exactly if she was attempting to abduct baby, I will never believe that there was no ill-intention behind her going to the gym and asking about his schedule or to be alerted when he was there.

 

[Snowball58]

Thank you for those links, Calliope.

I am both amazed but not amazed.

I think I'm gonna go give my husband another huge hug and kiss for being a great guy.

Great idea and advice I will heed - hug and appreciate my husband and daughter a little extra for Kyron

 

[Calliope]

She may not have known about the restraining order, per se, but I bet when she showed up at the gym she darn well knew she wasn't supposed to be taking the baby.

She's her mother, without a court order how could she not be allowed access to her own child?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've seen several individuals refer to KH taking Baby K as basically reversing what TMH was trying to do at the gym.
I'm not trying to hold myself up as an expert but I have served as a Guardian Ad Litem on a few cases that have involved one parent suspected of harming a child. In my state, in NC, when a restraining order is involved or domestic violence is suspected DSS or LE suggests to the non-offending parent that they separate from the offending parent.
While there is a CHOICE in this matter if one doesn't choose properly the child(ren) are removed and the non-offending parent is advised of this in no uncertain terms, either in open court, in front of a magistrate or by DSS privately.
We have no way of knowing if there is an open DSS investigation at the moment. There may very well be. KH may have been instructed by LE or other officials to remove the child and if that is the case then if TMH tried to remove her from the gym it could be violating something other than a restraining order and there are most certainly consequences to this for the offending parent whether there is an RO in place at the time or not.
I would be very surprised if a safety assessment by DSS had not been done in this situation, especially with a prior allegation that we know of. (There could have been many unsubstantiated ones we do not know of as well)

BBM

I'm not sure I am understanding this.

How can one be in violation of court orders that one has not been served with?

If TMH is factually innocent in Kyron's disappearance, the MFH plot, etc, then to her, there would be no valid reason she should not have custody of baby K. From that point of view, then, she would have merely been doing what KH had already done to her.

 

[Snowball58]

She's her mother, without a court order how could she not be allowed access to her own child?

I think she knew that the divorce filing and custody issues were imminent (after all, there was the custody related 911 call just 2 days prior) and was prepared to take Baby K that day (Monday) but Baby K wasn't there. So she wanted info on when Kaine would next be at the gym so that she could return to try again.

Without having been served the RO she may not have been breaking the law, but I feel strongly that she was going to take the baby because she knew she was about to lose custody over the MFH plot.

I completely believe she knew she was about to lose her parental rights and planned to abduct Baby K preemptively.

 

[GrainneDhu]

THIS NOT TO SAY I FEEL HIM TAKING THE CHILD WAS UNJUSTIFIED. I am simply saying that I do not find it damning that Terri attempted to find out where he and/or the baby were on June 28th BEFORE she was served the RO and divorce papers. Why wouldn't she want to know where they were, particularly, if as I suspect, Kaine wasn't answering her calls.

SBM

That is what I've been fumbling around trying to say and failing dismally. Thank you.

 

[GrainneDhu]

One of the spy features most of those programs tout is the ability to trace the GPS location of your subject. I can't imagine, were Kaine completely innocent, that he wouldn't have handed that info over to LE if he had it at the outset.

That only works if the cell phone has GPS, though.

 

[desquire]

She's her mother, without a court order how could she not be allowed access to her own child?

I totally agree. Absent the restraining order she has every right to walk into that daycare and take her daughter. Taking her daughter from the gym day care before the issuance of the RO would not have been a violation of any law. If anything, it was KH who arguably violated the custodial interference laws by taking the baby away from TH for several days before the RO was issued.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have wondered what a child therapist would say, I know children who have been in horrific situations and the courts bent over backwards to keep children with their parents, I wonder what the little girl is thinking and feeling. I don't know what it would do to a child this young to be taken from their primary caregiver like she was. I just question why she wasn't given supervised visits until it's proven she did something. Heck, people in jail get to visit with their children and those visits are ordered by judges everyday....something about this part of it continues to STINK for me.

Research indicates that even children who have been removed from their parents' home due to abuse do better if they are allowed regular supervised contact with their parents.

I don't know if this applies to a 20 month old child, though.

 

[Mylou]

How exactly does asking when KH is next at the Gym, even become attempted abduction? Don't you actually have to attempt, like try to get out of the building with the baby to be attempted abduction ? Seems the baby wasn't even there ?

 

[Donjeta]

How exactly does asking when KH is next at the Gym, even become attempted abduction? Don't you actually have to attempt, like try to get out of the building with the baby to be attempted abduction ? Seems the baby wasn't even there ?

The word attempt is not used in the court document.

 

[TxLady2]

She's her mother, without a court order how could she not be allowed access to her own child?

Exactly. Doesn't matter what was in her mind, if she had not been served with the RO at that point, the court cannot say she violated the order.
Nobody is going to be able to prove that she knew about it. Kaine might have told her he would get one, but she might not have taken him seriously. Men make threats sometimes that they don't follow through with.