The aftermath of Hurricane Katrina

[Details]

Do you honestly believe those people had NOTHING to eat in their homes? Nonsense. If that had been the case, I guess they would've starved to death while waiting for their check even if the storm hadn't hit.

Nope - although I had a roomate who often enough only had a bag of potatoes to get her through the last few days until her paycheck came sometimes. What I do think is that they may not have tended to have food in their homes (fast food is sometimes cheaper, and doesn't require a refrigerator), and probably didn't have 3 days worth of food in their home (doubly so, not 3 days of food that didn't require refrigeration).

Not that the food matters - you don't starve to death in a few days or week.

 

[Details]

What is Newsmax?

An extremely biased and unreliable news site. Doesn't mean it can't be right, but with them you always have to read elsewhere to get the full story.

 

[tybee204]

I read it. Lets keep to mainstream /legitimate News Sources. For partisan politics we have a Political Forum Available. Keep the left or right wing extremes there please.

 

[Ntegrity]

I can't think of any that I have - some tupperware - but that'd crack open if filled with water and put in a bag - but nothing else with a real top that would hold the water through being carried around (and 3 days of water is a lot - that's pretty heavy - especially if you are carrying it for a few kids - what do you have at your house that can hold this kind of water?)

And you still aren't adressing the homeless.

I've got tupperware (which hasn't cracked open yet!), old plastic 2-liter coke bottles, plastic pitchers ($1 at Dollar General). The notion that these "poor" people don't have those things is ridiculous. Even homeless people can pick through the garbage and find an old coke bottle. It doesn't take that much water just to survive.

As a Florida resident, I've been through hurricanes my entire life. Even when I was a "poor" young married woman with small children, I was capable of putting together a survival package before heading to a shelter.

I'm not saying this absolves the government (city, state, federal) of responsibility, but I am saying that people need to take some responsibility for themselves.

 

[fran]

I read it. Lets keep to mainstream /legitimate News Sources. For partisan politics we have a Political Forum Available. Keep the left or right wing extremes there please.

Ok, I deleted it.

fran

 

[kgeaux]

I missed the very first part, sorry. The part that caught my attention was when a reporter was asking him something about criticism heard from a political head (Senator? Not quite sure, someone else will correct me, I'm sure!) about how he was hearing that heli pilots were having a hard time with red tape, getting authorization to fly, etc. and I guess, causing delays.

He was NOT happy about that and said that is all BS, that this Senator (?) didn't know what he was talking about, he wasn't down there knowing what was happening, that they've got over 300 heli's down there and they're doing it well. He said they're getting criticism because they're receiving emails from people saying, "I'm here, come rescue me." He said they can't work like that. But, they need phones and better communcations down there.

Anyone else catch the rest?

Did he manage to mention how people who are in an area where all electricity is out and cell phone towers are down are managing to email him?

That's like the story Mr. Boudreaux told on Fox the other night--where his bosses mom called every night from the old folk's home asking if help was coming, and she drowned on Friday. How the heck did she call? There was NO phone service!!

 

[Ntegrity]

Why delete NewsMax, yet say it's okay to quote the NY Times which is notoriously liberal in all their stories.

 

[kgeaux]

I've got tupperware (which hasn't cracked open yet!), old plastic 2-liter coke bottles, plastic pitchers ($1 at Dollar General). The notion that these "poor" people don't have those things is ridiculous. Even homeless people can pick through the garbage and find an old coke bottle. It doesn't take that much water just to survive.

As a Florida resident, I've been through hurricanes my entire life. Even when I was a "poor" young married woman with small children, I was capable of putting together a survival package before heading to a shelter.

I'm not saying this absolves the government (city, state, federal) of responsibility, but I am saying that people need to take some responsibility for themselves.

Especially if you like in a disaster prone area, you need to be sure you've got survival supplies at hand. I feel very sorry for these people, and I understand that poverty makes it much harder to provide for themselves, but there has to be some level of responsibility for one's self and family. No one can expect the government to have total responsibility for them.

 

[tybee204]

Why delete NewsMax, yet say it's okay to quote the NY Times which is notoriously liberal in all their stories.

Ntegrity

I have come across many blogs and left and right wing "News" sites in the last few days covering the Politics of this Disaster with a vengence and passed on them. This isnt a Liberal/Conservative debate. Lets try to avoid turning it into one.

 

[tybee204]

In the days leading up to Hurricane Katrina, Mayor Ray Nagin did not use hundreds of buses that were sitting in bus yards, some less than a mile from the Superdome, to evacuate citizens who were too poor to make their way out of the city. Louisiana Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco commented, "The buses could have saved an estimated 20,000 people if they had been used for emergency evacuations which President Bush had declared two days before Katrina hit." Thursday, after the storm, Blanco by executive order used school buses for evacuation.

The 2000 edition of the southeast Louisiana evacuation plan on page 13, paragraph 5 states:

5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating.

Source

I saw on one of the News stations that the photo of the flooded bus's are not in New Orleans or the Mayors district. The photo is from one of the other Parish Districts.

 

[Details]

I've got tupperware (which hasn't cracked open yet!), old plastic 2-liter coke bottles, plastic pitchers ($1 at Dollar General). The notion that these "poor" people don't have those things is ridiculous. Even homeless people can pick through the garbage and find an old coke bottle. It doesn't take that much water just to survive.

As a Florida resident, I've been through hurricanes my entire life. Even when I was a "poor" young married woman with small children, I was capable of putting together a survival package before heading to a shelter.

I'm not saying this absolves the government (city, state, federal) of responsibility, but I am saying that people need to take some responsibility for themselves.

What type of tupperware is that? Mine is pretty good, but I wouldn't trust it to hold my drinking water if it shifted sideways and had a little pressure put on - the lid would probably pop off. No old coke bottles, no pitcher (which wouldn't matter, since they don't have watertight lids.

However - tupperware costs money - I wouldn't count on a poor family having that. Coke bottles are a good choice - but maybe one is there, and may be it isn't. If you are living hand to mouth, soda is a luxury. And it does take a fair amount of water, in terms of weight, per person, per day in that 120 degree weather. Of course, they have to find and assemble this while getting ready to hop on those free buses whenever they are coming by, and getting all of their other essentials (medicine, children) together.

I'm all for responsibility - but I also think you have to look at individual situations, panic, all the human vagaries that reasonable and intelligent people even have. Being unable to think of where to find old coke bottles in a rush to evacuate before your home is destroyed to me seems a very minor and understandable failing. Looters, people who could leave and chose to stay - they've made real errors in life and judgement. A single mom gathering kids and supplies and trying to find out when the buses get there - this doesn't seem like a real failing of personal responsibility.

 

[Details]

I heard that there was some phone service. Some only in, some only out, intermittent, but there was some.

Likewise, I know several people have managed to continue communications with Blackberry devices (blackberries do email). That's where a lot of information came from at the start of the hurricane. I'm not sure if that means some cell phone towers remain, or what - but I think the news media was using them.

The police have communcation problems because their batteries died, and there was no way to recharge.

 

[marrigotti]

Especially if you like in a disaster prone area, you need to be sure you've got survival supplies at hand. I feel very sorry for these people, and I understand that poverty makes it much harder to provide for themselves, but there has to be some level of responsibility for one's self and family. No one can expect the government to have total responsibility for them.

I have to agree with this statement. I don't think that all of these people were so totally helpless that they couldn't even prepare by assembling some bottles of water. I am certainly sorry about the outcome, but I believe much of it could have been prevented by people assuming more responsibility at an individual, local and state level.

 

[JBean]

I have to agree with this statement. I don't think that all of these people were so totally helpless that they couldn't even prepare by assembling some bottles of water. I am certainly sorry about the outcome, but I believe much of it could have been prevented by people assuming more responsibility at an individual, local and state level.

Well you know I agree with this.
I have restocked my supplies today, so that I have time to wait for the local authorities to do what they can as fast as they can. But I must rely on myself first and foremost to make sure I can sustain while waiting for the big guns.

 

[Dara]

Coke bottles are a good choice - but maybe one is there, and may be it isn't. If you are living hand to mouth, soda is a luxury.

If LA is like Massachusetts and many other states (I Googled and found some references to suggest it is, but nothing definitive) it has bottle deposit. It might be prudent to keep the bottles for such emergencies, but if you're trying to buy food and don't have the money, you might just take the fifty cents or so to buy a box of spaghetti.

I am glad we're getting the information contained in this thread (though I do look askance at sites called JuiceeNews) I want to know if the SuperDome should have been used and about Mayor Nagin's actions. But as far as saying people should have had supplies, as if that exempts the government from doing ALL THAT THEY COULD, which they clearly didn't, I have to ask a couple of questions.

Does an edict for people to bring supplies for X days exempt the government from providing any supplies until those days are over?

What personal responsibility do the rape victims bear? Should they have hit the nearest BDSM shop and stocked up on chastity belts? When we knew rapes were happening and help still didn't come for days, who is responsible?

How about those who were killed? If they were killed for the food they brought, maybe that's their fault, too?

And last, if a similar disaster struck with no warning, is it ok to help people then?

The response was far below what was possible in this situation. Not the ideal response, but the best possible response. How can we not question that and be troubled by it?

 

[concernedperson]

There are still people who won't evacuate. The reporter describes it as a kind of numbness. They are expecting the reality will set in and if it doesn't they will be forced to leave.

This is all so sad anyway we look at it. Were there failings.....absolutely 100%....will blame fall.....absolutely 100%....is now the time.......NO. Get the help needed and protect the refugees and get them kick started...protect the rescuers and anyone who is involved in this toxic waste. Serious, serious health situations are going to effect a lot of people. The faster work is done the lessening of the consequences.

Gen. Honore with his no BS is a very good choice. Don't know who made him in command but kudos to them. He isn't a politician which is a very good thing right now. The politicians have so many ruffled feathers it would be funny if it weren't so sad.

 

[concernedperson]

I heard that there was some phone service. Some only in, some only out, intermittent, but there was some.

Likewise, I know several people have managed to continue communications with Blackberry devices (blackberries do email). That's where a lot of information came from at the start of the hurricane. I'm not sure if that means some cell phone towers remain, or what - but I think the news media was using them.

The police have communcation problems because their batteries died, and there was no way to recharge.

Early on the reporters were talking about limited use of cell phones but were in use at times to a degree.They then switched to satellite phones. Also was mentioned that some land lines were operable. Most were out though.

 

[Dara]

Did he manage to mention how people who are in an area where all electricity is out and cell phone towers are down are managing to email him?

That's like the story Mr. Boudreaux told on Fox the other night--where his bosses mom called every night from the old folk's home asking if help was coming, and she drowned on Friday. How the heck did she call? There was NO phone service!!

Aaron Broussard. It wasn't his boss; it was the man running the emergency management building. That's the building Broussard was in. It's possible since the man is in emergency management, there was some form of communication. Don't facilities like nursing homes and hospitals sometimes have means of emergency communications?

Just asking.

 

[concernedperson]

Aaron Broussard. It wasn't his boss; it was the man running the emergency management building. That's the building Broussard was in. It's possible since the man is in emergency management, there was some form of communication. Don't facilities like nursing homes and hospitals sometimes have means of emergency communications?

Just asking.

Yes. Certain emergency band radios. Particularly in Louisiana because of all the marine activity.( Not military but lots of ocean going and offshore rig activity)

 

[lorann]

I think they have given us a real look as things were happening and before they were edited a lot. I was trying to form my opinion on the politics of this and have just about given up on that part for now. It will be spin spin spin by everybody trying to sway our thinking. But I will never forget, never, the horror. There is one picture in my mind of a young mother hodling her baby with the most hopless look on her face. And I was at home watching on TV 24 hours/day for awhile - they lived it and how will they ever get past some of that. There but for the Grace of GOD...