The Balcony Adjoining JBRs Bedroom

[slug]

I don't remeber anything about a balcony, I wonder did the police look at all possible entrance and exit roots.
Was the whole house fingerprinted or only those places they believe relivent to the crime?

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't remeber anything about a balcony, I wonder did the police look at all possible entrance and exit roots.
Was the whole house fingerprinted or only those places they believe relivent to the crime?

We don't know how thorough police were in dusting for prints, but we DO know that the R friends who were called to the house that morning after he 911 call wiped the kitchen counters and other surfaces with windex. Yep- before they could be dusted for prints and with the possible murder weapon (the flashlight) right there. We don't even know if one of them wiped the flashlight or not. This group of unauthorized people were all over that active crime scene.
Police DID check doors and found them all locked.

Anyone ever see "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil"? That's a really good movie, based on a real crime. The movie was based on the book of the same name. There is a courtroom scene in the movie, where the defense attorney (and for anyone who HAS seen the movie, the judge in the movie is played by the real-life defense attorney for the actual case) is showing the jury crime scene photos. In these photos, there are lots of strange people walking all around the rooms, even a cat is seen walking around the body. The defense attorney uses these very photos as evidence that police did NOT secure the crime scene and thus any evidence gathered there was useless and should be thrown out. There was also evidence of sloppy work by the coroner regrading bagging the decedent's hands.
Bottom line- the suspect was acquitted. He was guilty, BTW.

Smart move by the Rs- calling all those friends over.

 

[madeleine]

You know Dee,I NEVER thought about it this way.I keep banging my head and try to understand why on earth they called the friends over.But it never crossed my mind,maybe this was the reason,so they contaminate the crime scene!Simple as that.Cold and calculated, but possible.
And yes,it's like in that movie IMO.This is not a prosecutable case,RDI,IDI,without a confession, it ends here.Cause ALL the evidence can be disputed,thanks to Eller and his staff in the first place.The friends and the rev. should have been kicked out of the house second one,no matter whether it was a kidnapping or murder.

 

[DeeDee249]

You know Dee,I NEVER thought about it this way.I keep banging my head and try to understand why on earth they called the friends over.But it never crossed my mind,maybe this was the reason,so they contaminate the crime scene!Simple as that.Cold and calculated, but possible.
And yes,it's like in that movie IMO.This is not a prosecutable case,RDI,IDI,without a confession, it ends here.Cause ALL the evidence can be disputed,thanks to Eller and his staff in the first place.The friends and the rev. should have been kicked out of the house second one,no matter whether it was a kidnapping or murder.

Right. Why else would they call them? Obviously, the RN said explicitly NOT to call anyone, not to talk to "even a stray dog". Yet they called lots of people.
To be fair, most people finding a REAL RN would call police, whether or not the note said not to do it.
BUT no one receiving such a note would call their friends over, or even their pastor, especially as the note mentioned they were being "monitored". Right.
There is a time and place to seek the comfort of a pastor and friends. That was NOT the time and place.

 

[claudicici]

thank you,deedee,you've opened my eyes to this as well...it truly is a COLD thing to do and if only for the fact that THESE friends had children of their own! Why did they call them to LEAVE their children alone ,what exactly did these friends do with their children that morning? Kiss them on the cheek and say 'we're off to see the Ramsey's ,there's a small group of foreign individuals on the loose threatening to behead Boulder's affluent children,have a nice day,honey"?

 

[madeleine]

thank you,deedee,you've opened my eyes to this as well...it truly is a COLD thing to do and if only for the fact that THESE friends had children of their own! Why did they call them to LEAVE their children alone ,what exactly did these friends do with their children that morning? Kiss them on the cheek and say 'we're off to see the Ramsey's ,there's a small group of foreign individuals on the loose threatening to behead Boulder's affluent children,have a nice day,honey"?

Not cold but also evil,it means they were USING them,knowing exactly that this will put them in the spotlight as well and maybe ruin their lives.

 

[claudicici]

...and i keep thinking if my friend called me early in the morning ,telling me to come over because their daughter was kidnapped...I don't think there's anyway I would rush over there and leave my child! I mean it's different if they called and said their child was missing,of course you would help look for her,but this child was presumably kidnapped by very bad people that may be on their way to my house....
...and then once the friends got there they start wiping down counters and moving stuff????...who does that?...seriously....what did all these people know?

 

[madeleine]

I wonder what she told the reverend when she called him,wish I had the transcript of THAT call!

 

[slug]

it would be lovely to see the phone records to see who she phoned first and the order of the others.

 

[DeeDee249]

it would be lovely to see the phone records to see who she phoned first and the order of the others.

Yes it would be, but we never will. Nor will prosecutors or the police ever see them. For one, they "disappeared" for the month of December.
How conveeeenient!
But in reality, those phone records were used as evidence in another trial where tabloid reported obtained them illegally, and for that reason, a judge ruled them inadmissible as evidence ever again.
I am not a judge, nor a lawyer, but I gotta question that kind of ruling and wonder exactly what was behind it. Or WHO was behind it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes it would be, but we never will. Nor will prosecutors or the police ever see them. For one, they "disappeared" for the month of December.
How conveeeenient!
But in reality, those phone records were used as evidence in another trial where tabloid reported obtained them illegally, and for that reason, a judge ruled them inadmissible as evidence ever again.
I am not a judge, nor a lawyer, but I gotta question that kind of ruling and wonder exactly what was behind it. Or WHO was behind it.

I don't understand how a civil trial judge could trump a criminal investigation, especially when we're talking evidence in a child murder case. That just doesn't make sense.

 

[DeeDee249]

...and i keep thinking if my friend called me early in the morning ,telling me to come over because their daughter was kidnapped...I don't think there's anyway I would rush over there and leave my child! I mean it's different if they called and said their child was missing,of course you would help look for her,but this child was presumably kidnapped by very bad people that may be on their way to my house....
...and then once the friends got there they start wiping down counters and moving stuff????...who does that?...seriously....what did all these people know?

I am thinking of JR's comment (freudian slip?) when he said that "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning". We cannot assume that because the Rs called in their posse after the 911 call at 6 am that none of them had been there the night before to help. When we question how a parent could stage this crime, do some of the things that were done to JB, maybe they had help from their friends.
I am also thinking of Patsy's drugged-out TV "performance" where she claims that "If I were in Boulder I would tell my friends to keep their babies close to them". Yet, their friends weren't worried about their own kids. Nor were the Rs worried about their surviving son. BR attended the same school for a while during the time the Rs were living in Boulder with friends. He had no police escort nor were there any special precautions taken in case the "kidnapper" decided to come back for another R child.
When the Rs moved to Atlanta, they didn't seem worried there, either. As a matter of fact, when the R home in Atlanta was burglarized a while later, JR admitted he didn't lock the doors and didn't use an alarm. This, after having a child murdered by someone who got into the house on a night when the alarm was allegedly not set either.
Do you think these parents were worried about an intruder? No. Because they knew there was none.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't understand how a civil trial judge could trump a criminal investigation, especially when we're talking evidence in a child murder case. That just doesn't make sense.

I don't understand it either, but it was done in this case. And I cannot think of more important evidence than those phone records. The guilt of the Rs could come down to exactly that- who they called, or who called them, and when.

Well, I think I just answered my own questions. How 'bout you guys? Someone did them a BIG favor and I wonder who called in that favor.
Lots if favors sometimes change hands between lawyers and judges, right?

 

[TechWriter797]

...Nor were the Rs worried about their surviving son. BR attended the same school for a while during the time the Rs were living in Boulder with friends. He had no police escort nor were there any special precautions taken in case the "kidnapper" decided to come back for another R child...

I'm reading Perfect Murder, Perfect Town right now and it states that BR did not go back to school right away. When he did go back there were precautions taken -- a person outside the his classroom and extra people on the playground. Also, a security alarm installed in the school.

 

[madeleine]

Also, a security alarm installed in the school.

yeah,Susan Stine and her medallion.You would want professionals guarding your 9 years old if you're dealing with a vengeful monster.This is how that big argument between Wood and Kane started.Wood saying all these questions re why BR had no protection are a "waste of time".He knew exactly how this looks like.And Kane knew as well why Wood is blocking it.

 

[madeleine]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0008/30/lkl.00.html

WOOD: Let me finish. During the interviews, John and Patsy Ramsey did, in fact, answer every question, even the questions that I thought were basically a waste of time about whether or not they had adequate protection for their son Burke, then 10 years old, when he returned to school in Boulder in 1997.

They did not answer a handful of questions about the forensic tests, but I offered, if they would simply show me the results so that we could verify that they were telling us accurate that we would answer those.

But what Mr. Kane does not know is that when he had already left, the other members of the interrogation squad were there, and we didn't have any problems with those six individuals. My clients gave to Chief Beckner, the Boulder Police Department, their direct private telephone numbers, and they told Chief Beckner: We want to have a dialogue with you. We want to work with you. If you think there is something that we can give you, in terms of additional information, pick up the phone and call us, don't even call our lawyer, call us directly. That is cooperation.




Unbelievable.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am thinking of JR's comment (freudian slip?) when he said that "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning". We cannot assume that because the Rs called in their posse after the 911 call at 6 am that none of them had been there the night before to help. When we question how a parent could stage this crime, do some of the things that were done to JB, maybe they had help from their friends.
I am also thinking of Patsy's drugged-out TV "performance" where she claims that "If I were in Boulder I would tell my friends to keep their babies close to them". Yet, their friends weren't worried about their own kids. Nor were the Rs worried about their surviving son. BR attended the same school for a while during the time the Rs were living in Boulder with friends. He had no police escort nor were there any special precautions taken in case the "kidnapper" decided to come back for another R child.
When the Rs moved to Atlanta, they didn't seem worried there, either. As a matter of fact, when the R home in Atlanta was burglarized a while later, JR admitted he didn't lock the doors and didn't use an alarm. This, after having a child murdered by someone who got into the house on a night when the alarm was allegedly not set either.
Do you think these parents were worried about an intruder? No. Because they knew there was none.

DeeDee he never said it, it was a typo in the transcript. Someone recently posted the actual LKL interview and I listened to it, like 6 times.

 

[feddup]

I have a question....was BR 12 or 13 when he testified with the Grand Jury? I am so confused. I read a list of people from something else that listed the people who testified at it. I believe they said Burke testimony was on videotape....
I dont understand.
Thanks for any imfo.

 

[CathyR]

I don't understand how a civil trial judge could trump a criminal investigation, especially when we're talking evidence in a child murder case. That just doesn't make sense.

CIVIL COURT CIVIL COURT CIVIL COURT.

You have asked and answered yourself.

From my understanding the CIVIL COURT judge ruled the telephone records inadmissible as they had violated privacy rights the R's and every person who pays for phone service has.

Unless the evidence came from the R's directly such as a thrown out phone bill would be (trash is public domain) or if the R's handed it over themselves to the court. It is a violation of privacy rights. He, the judge , may have asked the R"s if they had released the info and was told and I never will give a release of my personal records to anyone.


In a CRIMINAL COURT the evidence is gained by getting a warrant to go to the phone company leaving the R's out of the loop of permission. Any judge would gladly grant such a warrant for the records of any person having a murder victim in their home. LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. Bad pun on the Realtors but because the house was where she was found, phone records would be one of the first things on an investigators list. When arriving at the scene and reading the kidnapping note I'm sure phone taps and contact with phone provider is established pronto. Even if just to stage an investigation since FBI said to look for body and they suspected parents. They still set up some kind of call trap to get the number "if" a intruder called.

In a CRIMINAL COURT case has a different criteria. Evidence submitted it IS FROM A VERIFIABLE SOURCE. Since it comes directly from the provider the R's can't have tampered with it. Since it came by way of warrant privacy rights are protected.


The two things did wrong in civil court do not have a bearing on a criminal court. Sources are different. In a criminal case a person or person being prosecuted is not facing another person or a company the are facing the STATE. In a civil court the two complainants represent the two sides. The People's Court is a TV show on civil matters not criminal ones.

 

[DeeDee249]

Then why did a judge seal the phone records from LE in the criminal investigation? And why did LE not fight that order?