The Best Untainted Evidence-The Ransom Letter

[LI_Mom]

angelwngs,

There was never any doubt that the legal pad originated from the Ramsey house, the Ramsey's accepted the ransom note paper came from one of their pads, there was more than one. The lack of fingerprints is not as conclusive as it appears since fingerprints are not always deposited upon paper, particularly if the persons hands are clean or just been washed.

But the total absence of any intruder dna on any of the pages of the used legal pad, but its alleged discovery inside the size-12 panties and longjohns, is at variance with an intruder who left no prints on the legal pad and whom wiped the flashlight clean both inside and outside, and left no other dna markers during his journey through the house.

If an intruder wore gloves to write the note(s)... there wouldn't be fingerprints on ANY pages of the pad. Intruder doesn't only put on gloves AFTER removing the page he's going to use.

I doubt the notepad was tested for dna (they barely tested ANY items or known contacts for dna)... most likely they only looked for prints.

 

[angelwngs]

That's not really a red flag for me...

a mother dressing a daughter for bed while a father is busy with the older son...

a mother being up & around getting ready for an early morning trip... seeing to a few last minute details (the shirt with a stain & heading to the kitchen)...


If we found out John USUALLY headed to the kitchen before Patsy to start the coffee, then I'd wonder why a change in pattern.

-because she never went to bed
-because she never changed out of her clothes from the night before
-because she was already up and waiting on JR to finish getting his shower and come downstairs so that act 34 of the play could begin
-because...

Why am I posting this, LM? You already know all of this and any IDI who reads it will ignore its obvious truths...

 

[Ames]

That's not really a red flag for me...

a mother dressing a daughter for bed while a father is busy with the older son...

a mother being up & around getting ready for an early morning trip... seeing to a few last minute details (the shirt with a stain & heading to the kitchen)...


If we found out John USUALLY headed to the kitchen before Patsy to start the coffee, then I'd wonder why a change in pattern.

On CNN Patsy says that she headed downstairs to "make coffee", but, in her intervews, she never even mentions coffee.

 

[LI_Mom]

However, this will in part depend on how much money the BPD is willing or able to devote to the process. It's not cheap and the backlog of evidence to be processed, in both law enforcement and private labs, is pretty long.

I'm thinking that the BPD will "triage" the accumulated evidence and send in only part of it. Anything that was in a part of the house that was known to have been innocently visited by lots of people will probably be excluded, since finding DNA in those places is easily explained. I believe that it would make the most fiscal sense to send away for testing only evidence from places in the house where there is no innocent explanation for non-Ramsey DNA.

Also.... they had some group (that helps families deal with bad situations) come into the house & they scrubbed the kitchen & who knows what else.

I don't remember exactly when they arrived.


LE's best bet is to test the items from the basement & work out from there.

Also of interest might be that paper bag with rope found on John Andrew's bed.... Patsy claims THAT didn't belong to them either.

Frankly, I think this case is colder than JB & was intended to stay that way from the very beginning.

 

[LI_Mom]

-because she never went to bed
-because she never changed out of her clothes from the night before
-because she was already up and waiting on JR to finish getting his shower and come downstairs so that act 34 of the play could begin
-because...

Why am I posting this, LM? You already know all of this and any IDI who reads it will ignore its obvious truths...

Yep.

Question... do we know if LE confirmed that Patsy's shower was in fact broken as she claimed? That was the reason she says she just got up & got dressed right away.

She never mentioned that she used John's shower the day before OR that night.... not at any other time.

Is she trying to show 'proof' that she couldn't have be part of JB's death because she would have taken a shower afterwards?

Did LE ever check to see what dirty clothes were in her hamper (or on her floor).... even if you throw on the same slacks & blouse the next day... you'd more than likely change your undergarments & socks/stockings. Do the dirty clothes add up according to the last time the wash was done OR were there too few/too many to fit the story?

What DIRTY clothes did she put in that plastic bag to take to Michigan? Just the kids or some of theirs also?

So many questions.

 

[LI_Mom]

On CNN Patsy says that she headed downstairs to "make coffee", but, in her intervews, she never even mentions coffee.

Maybe the lawyers advised them not to talk about coffee anymore.

 

[Ames]

Maybe the lawyers advised them not to talk about coffee anymore.

RiverRat and I had this discussion about coffee awhile back. I posted Patsy's formal interviews with investigators..where she never, not one time mentioned making coffee...and then the one from CNN...where she says..."I was heading downstairs to make coffee". I don't know why she would have left that out, nothing sinister about making coffee. UNLESS, she got carried away with her fake details...and felt she had to give a reason for going downstairs..in order to "find" the RN.

 

[LI_Mom]

RiverRat and I had this discussion about coffee awhile back. I posted Patsy's formal interviews with investigators..where she never, not one time mentioned making coffee...and then the one from CNN...where she says..."I was heading downstairs to make coffee". I don't know why she would have left that out, nothing sinister about making coffee. UNLESS, she got carried away with her fake details...and felt she had to give a reason for going downstairs..in order to "find" the RN.

The interviews we read... that can't be the FULL interviews, are they?

They'll ask a few questions & then jump to a completely different topic.

It's no wonder they could never exclude Patsy or John without resorting to this moronic stunt by Lacy.

 

[robotdog]

The interviews we read... that can't be the FULL interviews, are they?

They'll ask a few questions & then jump to a completely different topic.

It's no wonder they could never exclude Patsy or John without resorting to this moronic stunt by Lacy.

seems to me, the PHONY RAMSON NOTE was not written in a couple minutes.

you have the practice note, then the "thinking" in writing the final draft.

you also have to have time to actually concoct this whole ridiculous mess.
its not like JBR was injured and died and someone immediately says
"quick get the note pad and sharpie, we need to write a crazy note"

the dressing, undressing, wiping everything down, cleaning up, leaving bogus clues around and actually planning the 911 call and all the other BULL CRAP things that had to be done.

neither ramseys slept that night, they were too busy :furious:

 

[Beyond Belief]

off topic, but i wanted to put this down somewhere before it slips my mind.
Watching matlock rerun from Jan 94-"the kidnapping part 1". There's those words coming from kidnapper. call the police, he dies, blah blah, he dies. blah blah, he dies. matlock is southern gentleman. i have heard lines in the show making reference to that many times. just an FYI
it just sounded like those lines in rn.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Grainne Dhu,
From memory the legal pad was contaminated with LEA prints so I guess its use in court would be contested by the defense as being inadmissable?

Depends on whose prints or DNA they find on it. If a law enforcement agent's prints, that would certainly create reasonable doubt by the ton. If it were prints from someone who wasn't known to have been in the house that morning... that would be evidence.

John has enough money to have everyone linked to the case dna tested along with evidence linked closely to JonBenet, pants, duct tape etc, some people with media links should have that as a floater question in their news articles e.g. What Price To Catch JonBenet's Killer?. Shame the Lounge Lizard into putting his hands into his pockets on JonBenet's behalf, or set up a charity page on the web requesting donations for said purpose?

Until or unless John Ramsey has been completely eliminated and exonerated, there's an obvious reason he cannot fund any of the testing nor have any association in any capacity with any potential fund raising efforts. For obvious reasons!

I wouldn't trust evidence that a potential defendant had paid to be tested. By paying for the testing, that places an obligation on the results. Even if he donated the money to an unrelated nonprofit like the Carrington-Sund Foundation and they handled the finances, the very fact that it was his money could be used by any defence attorney to implicate the results.

The very fastest way to make sure JonBenet Ramsey's killer can never be convicted would be to allow John Ramsey's money to be connected in any way, shape or form with the testing of evidence. If a Boulder DA did that, they may as well just put ads in the paper saying they've totally given up on the case and will never bring charges against anyone.

 

[LinasK]

Patsy forgot to read the entire note. It wasn't until later (oops!) that she realized she shouldn't have invited the police, friends and her pastor over........besides she didn't need to read because she already knew what it said anyway - and she, for one, knew there wasn't any 'foreign faction' paying attention.....sometimes, you might be tempted to think they're innocent from their demonstration of sheer idiocy.

Are there any memoirs from your average officer who was on the scene or otherwise involved - it seems a strange mix of negligence...but, to some degree they failed because their minds were made up (the R.s) - but, WHY was the house not searched by an officer, top to bottom, to begin with - why, if JR was a suspect, allow him (and a friend to search?)....and I heard (false, perhaps) that the wine cellar, where JBR was found, wasn't searched to begin with because the door was 'stuck'! All the more reason to get inside the 'wine cellar'....!

Bingo! :clap: That's what I've been saying. Sheer incompetence on the part of Linda Arndt.

 

[angelwngs]

Bingo! :clap: That's what I've been saying. Sheer incompetence on the part of Linda Arndt.

Linda Arndt lost the 'alpha dog' position she was required by her job to maintain as soon as she entered the door of the R's Boulder home and she never regained it.

 

[BBB167893]

Until or unless John Ramsey has been completely eliminated and exonerated, there's an obvious reason he cannot fund any of the testing nor have any association in any capacity with any potential fund raising efforts. For obvious reasons!

Agreed! But that never stopped him before, Grainne Dhu!

I wouldn't trust evidence that a potential defendant had paid to be tested. By paying for the testing, that places an obligation on the results. Even if he donated the money to an unrelated nonprofit like the Carrington-Sund Foundation and they handled the finances, the very fact that it was his money could be used by any defence attorney to implicate the results.

I'll hold you to that!

The very fastest way to make sure JonBenet Ramsey's killer can never be convicted would be to allow John Ramsey's money to be connected in any way, shape or form with the testing of evidence. If a Boulder DA did that, they may as well just put ads in the paper saying they've totally given up on the case and will never bring charges against anyone.

If you ask my opinion, that's exactly what has happened! ( I can't BELIEVE nobody seized on that one!)

 

[DeeDee249]

At the time that LA told JR to search the house (she had said that her superiors TOLD her to give him something to do)- he was not a suspect. Before he "found" his daughter's body, police were treating this as a kidnapping- not a murder. It wasn't until after she was found dead in the home that LA began to think that someone in the home was responsible, and she thought that someone was JBR's father.
However, this doesn't give LA a pass for failing to secure the crime scene. She should have put them all in one room and stood guard- she had gun.

 

[LinasK]

At the time that LA told JR to search the house (she had said that her superiors TOLD her to give him something to do)- he was not a suspect. Before he "found" his daughter's body, police were treating this as a kidnapping- not a murder. It wasn't until after she was found dead in the home that LA began to think that someone in the home was responsible, and she thought that someone was JBR's father.
However, this doesn't give LA a pass for failing to secure the crime scene. She should have put them all in one room and stood guard- she had gun.

Well, IMO, that was a pretty stupid "task" to give him when a little girl is missing!:doh: Wouldn't it be standard operating procedure for the police to first search the whole house to determine the little girl is actually missing as opposed to stuck in a refrigerator or washing machine or hiding somewhere????? Kidnapping or not,
I think combing through his rolodex for possible enemies might have been a far more productive task for the police to give him at that point, and then he couldn't have contaminated the evidence nor could Patsy by throwing herself on the body.

 

[DeeDee249]

Well, IMO, that was a pretty stupid "task" to give him when a little girl is missing!:doh: Wouldn't it be standard operating procedure for the police to first search the whole house to determine the little girl is actually missing as opposed to stuck in a refrigerator or washing machine or hiding somewhere?????

Yes- in the real world.

 

[JMO8778]

Yes- in the real world.

..I get the feeling it was a bad version of Disney or Peter Pan...perhaps the Twilight Zone as well..nothing like that has ever happened before! And can't exist elsewhere in the real world.

 

[JMO8778]

im more convinced everytime i think of it

i think she needed a BREAK for a few minutes

she was cooked goose, she knew it

yes and all the more reason to see that Patsy did indeed write it..she didn't want her prints on it,so no one could connect her to it,even though they should have been there.John's too.But he didn't want his stink on it either!

so LE finds it in the floor when they arrive! John has conveniently finished getting dressed during the interim of police arriving.

 

[JMO8778]

That's not really a red flag for me...

a mother dressing a daughter for bed while a father is busy with the older son...

a mother being up & around getting ready for an early morning trip... seeing to a few last minute details (the shirt with a stain & heading to the kitchen)...


If we found out John USUALLY headed to the kitchen before Patsy to start the coffee, then I'd wonder why a change in pattern.

Patsy actually gave 2 excuses for the note..one of course being the coffee excuse,the other being she said she picked it up b/c she thought it was from the housekeeper.who needs excuses if they truly find something that odd laying around?
even perhaps a third excuse could be factored in..saying John was on he floor in his underwear reading it.what were they trying to account for there?his fibers? only reason I can think of is he was tending to an unconscious JB in that area when he wasn't fully dressed.(not saying he's the one who inflicted the head injury though).I imagine when the decision not to call 911 was made,they quickly moved her to the basement,so Burke wouldn't see her,and the rest spurred from there...cord for Patsy's artwork,paintbrush from same,and perhaps tape came from artwork as well...all were down there and handy,and it was a lightbulb moment..