The Best Untainted Evidence-The Ransom Letter

  • #401
I understand the reasoning against garrote as sex toy. However, I don't fully understand garrote as cover-up. Who thinks of a garrote, per se & why (when I first read about a garrote in this case my only association were the sacrifices of the celts, even when I read about a garrote then I wasn't sure what it was, this encyclopedia had a picuture of linlow (?) man - he was preserved because of the nature of the bogs where he was deposited and you could see the garrote & how tight it was wound, etc., there are many of these bodies and they were always garroted and bludgeoned) - why not just a cord & the only logic to use anything like this whatsoever is that there must have been some type of neck 'evidence' that they desired to obfustcate (sorry for that word - when I haven't had my coffee I can only think of words like that, anyway, on with it) - the garrote has never made sense to me. It's easy to see, say, John making it - especially the knots that were used. I just don't see Patsy whittling paintbrushes & making a garrote and knowing of the knots to do so - it's still hard for me to see anyone going to that trouble - when a simple cord is easier - especially if you're victim is unconscious, if not dead....I suppose that's why the intruder folks saw it as a means of 'control' - even though I don't think intruders did this - aside from the 'cover-up' rationale using it as a controlling device makes sense.

Why would the perpetrators want us to think she was garroted instead of strangled with someone's hands? If there were prints, assuming gloves weren't used, she could easily be washed. I'm not an expert on what evidence is left behind when someone is strangled via hands versus garrote - so, bear with me if the reasoning is obvious. Considering she was molested with a brush, bludgeoned, what difference does the means of asphyxiation make?

Jane Osa,
Lindow Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindow_man may have been asphyxiated but was probably not garroted as per the modern definition.

If you take some time out to read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote it should explain what a garrote is and distinguish it from a ligature strangulation, which is what is likely to have caused Lindow Man's asphyxiation.

Most people assume a garrote or/and ligature are the same but they are distinct, although the media is rarely consistent in the use of terminology, in the USA garroting appears to be the same as ligature strangulation.

So if you read over your favorite JonBenet source it should tell you that the nylon cord around JonBenet's neck was tied to a broken piece of paintbrush handle, fashioned just for this purpose, this was then knotted firmly in place, resulting in a garrote, without the paintbrush handle, you would just have a ligature.

I just don't see Patsy whittling paintbrushes & making a garrote and knowing of the knots to do so - it's still hard for me to see anyone going to that trouble - when a simple cord is easier - especially if you're victim is unconscious, if not dead
Nearly every RDI would agree with you, its even easier to just leave the house with JonBenet and indulge your kidnapping fetish elsewhere at leisure, forget the ransom note and phone in from a downtown payphone later that morning.

This is one of the hallmarks of staging, its overdone, or overly complex, the novice criminal trying to think like a criminal usually gets it wrong. So with the garrote tight around JonBenet's neck, firmly held in place by fixed knots, it then cannot function as a Erotic Asphyxiation device as per those theories. In fact had the garrote been used in such a manner JonBenet's hair would have been ripped from her skull, this did not occur, further demonstrating another staged aspect to the garrote.

The coverup is for the abrasions and bruising seen on JonBenet's neck lying beneath the ligature, these needed some fake causal agent and the garrote supplies this. The abrasions are yet another reason why Erotic Asphyxiation was not taking place, since those bruises appear to be quite painful looking to me.


Lets hope the garrote makes more sense to you now, since its original purpose was to precisely elicit the response you had?


.
 
  • #402
Yes, thank you - it does make much more sense. I still don't know why the bruises would need to be 'covered' up - ? Considering everything else done to her, why are the bruises an issue?

Obviously, the assumption is that the bruises would reveal something - ? I can't fathom what aside from strangulation via someone's hands would need to be obscured by a ruse such as a garrote...and I don't know why that would be damning in & of itself one way or another...so, I still don't know why they needed to 'cover-up' anything via garrote. Hope I'm making sense & being clear!

Thanks!
 
  • #403
Example here: if the R.s killed their daughter & they want to cover-up evidence leading to them then much of the staging makes sense - for instance, binding her because they decide to make it look like an aborted kidnapping, etc. So, it's clear to see why they bound her. It's not clear to me what a garrote covers up, what evidence it obscures (I understand there were bruises)- bruises in and of themselves mean nothing aside from being strangled via hands or an attempt to strangle via hands - why would the R.s prefer detectives assume it was a garrote instead? Because it looks more 'professional' ?
 
  • #404
"Erotic asphyxiation" was Dr. Wecht's theory in his book Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey. I think he still favors that one.

WB KoldKase, please post your avatar with the Size 12 Bloomies for all to see!
 
  • #405
  • #406
The real bugaboo for me is the garrote. I too believe it was used to cover up either manual strangulation or strangulation by a scarf of some kind.

One of the police discoveries is that a scarf in the hallway had been moved. That one needed a big explanation which the police failed to explore with John and Patsy.

My if Burke did it theory is that JonBenet was in Burke's room that night watching him play his new Nintendo64. She wanted to play...Burke says no, and so she pulls the plug on the game. This enrages Burke and so he strangles her with the controller. The bash on the head could have come first....the flashlight being used by Burke that night.
 
  • #407
Others have asked, if Burke had been responsible for either the head inury or the initial strangulation:

-Why would Burke have asked, "What did you find?", during the 911 call.

-Would the R's have allowed Burke to return to school shortly after JBR's death, in Boulder and finish out the year, which would chance him discussing any aspect of his part in JBR's death?
 
  • #408
Yes, thank you - it does make much more sense. I still don't know why the bruises would need to be 'covered' up - ? Considering everything else done to her, why are the bruises an issue?

Obviously, the assumption is that the bruises would reveal something - ? I can't fathom what aside from strangulation via someone's hands would need to be obscured by a ruse such as a garrote...and I don't know why that would be damning in & of itself one way or another...so, I still don't know why they needed to 'cover-up' anything via garrote. Hope I'm making sense & being clear!

Thanks!

Jane Osa,

Well if you take a look at this :
csneck.jpg


It appears that JonBenet has been manually strangled, the bruising beneath the ligature is too diffuse and distinct to have been caused by the ligature, note the circumferential bruising or abrasions just visible around the edge of the ligature, it is not the same as the bruising below the ligature, also note JonBenet's hair trapped beneath the ligature, as is her necklace, its is embedded in the knotting at the back of her neck, also importantly the circumferential ligature bruising does not extend to the back of her neck.

So my contention is that the garrote is in place to mask the initial manual strangulation just as her sexual assault is hidden beneath layers of clothing. Without these staged elements the Ramsey's would most likely be sitting in the state penitentiary!

The marks beneath the ligature are usually referred to as fabric abrasions since they are common where someone has been manually strangled by their own collar.
 
  • #409
You do an excellent job, UKGuy.

Without these staged elements the Ramsey's would most likely be sitting in the state penitentiary!

With the DAs Boulder has? I'm not holding my breath.
 
  • #410
You do an excellent job, UKGuy.



With the DAs Boulder has? I'm not holding my breath.



SuperDave,
Thanks for your encouraging remarks, I know, most DA postions are just stepping stones on their way up the ladder, so prosecution of certain types of crime are usually always vote winners, but if you can indict a Ham Sandwich, how come the Ramsey never saw a charge sheet, just shows how corrupt the politicking and DA selection in Boulder is?


.
 
  • #411
It gets worse. According to an old New York Times article, Hunter was a defense attorney when he was elected. Kind of explains why he acted like one!
 
  • #412
the writer of the ramsom note wanted it to appear as though this was about
"money"

but i dont think anything was ever stolen from the house that had any monetary value........

thats kind of weird :rolleyes:

they wanted 118,000 bucks but took nothing of value from the house


can you say "smokescreen"

it was never about money, it was about a disguise


Yeah, and they even forgot to take the child!:bang: Stupid intruder!:rolleyes:
 
  • #413
I'm not ruling the garrote out as being primarily John & Patsy's 'toy', either - it would explain it's presence in the home. However, I do believe whomever used it on Jonbenet had these sadistic sexual intentions....


Only problem, it wasn't a real garrote....and a silk scarf would have been sufficient for erotic asphyxia games.

The "garrotte" was for staging. IMO
 
  • #414
  • #415
It gets worse. According to an old New York Times article, Hunter was a defense attorney when he was elected. Kind of explains why he acted like one!


SuperDave,
Sure, I doubt history will remember him kindly, his part in the non-prosecution of the Ramsey's, and any other double dealing will eventually be revealed.


.
 
  • #416
i dont know, its not my recipe :crazy:

pineapple on pizza is fantastic and good for you :crazy:

I love gingerbread men cookies. I enjoy biting the heads off first!
 
  • #417
Why would the perpetrators want us to think she was garroted instead of strangled with someone's hands? If there were prints, assuming gloves weren't used, she could easily be washed. I'm not an expert on what evidence is left behind when someone is strangled via hands versus garrote - so, bear with me if the reasoning is obvious. Considering she was molested with a brush, bludgeoned, what difference does the means of asphyxiation make?
Jane Osa, what if the garrot was used to cover up an original strangling? A strangling being used to force JonBenet to hold still. The garrot, although being refered to as a "Professional garrot" by John, does make a strong statement that the crime was committed by an outsider. Just the sight of the garrot around this young girls' neck is absolutely shocking. If its purpose was to point the murder away from the parents, it worked. Who could ever believe parents as outstanding in the community as John and Patsy would use this on their daughter.
I for one think the so called "professiona" garrot was anything but professional. I think it was something that was around the house, possible made by Burke and used in pulling things around. Something innocent for a 9-10 year old boy. JMO of course.
 
  • #418
Jane Osa, what if the garrot was used to cover up an original strangling? A strangling being used to force JonBenet to hold still. The garrot, although being refered to as a "Professional garrot" by John, does make a strong statement that the crime was committed by an outsider. Just the sight of the garrot around this young girls' neck is absolutely shocking. If its purpose was to point the murder away from the parents, it worked. Who could ever believe parents as outstanding in the community as John and Patsy would use this on their daughter.
I for one think the so called "professiona" garrot was anything but professional. I think it was something that was around the house, possible made by Burke and used in pulling things around. Something innocent for a 9-10 year old boy. JMO of course.


Except her hair was tied in the knot!
 
  • #419
SuperDave,
Sure, I doubt history will remember him kindly, his part in the non-prosecution of the Ramsey's, and any other double dealing will eventually be revealed.


.

The current one makes him look like Rudy Giuliani.
 
  • #420
Others have asked, if Burke had been responsible for either the head inury or the initial strangulation:

-Why would Burke have asked, "What did you find?", during the 911 call.

-Would the R's have allowed Burke to return to school shortly after JBR's death, in Boulder and finish out the year, which would chance him discussing any aspect of his part in JBR's death?

Even if Burke was the CATALYST for what started the whole staging scene, it would be logical to assume the parents sent him up to his bedroom with instructions to STAY UP THERE UNTIL WE TELL YOU TO MOVE!!!

He's have NO IDEA what they 'found' the next morning.


As far as going back to school..... kids are THE BEST liars. If a kid thinks he might get into major trouble if he talks about something... he can keep the secret forever.
 

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