The Blood Droplets

  • #61
G.I.RattlesnakeJane said:
You will find it same place I did. Justice for darlie and her own home page. They described it I 'm asking if it's true. I may be under false impressions here.

They descibe several things as being undone and also contaminated. MTJD also states it.
Jane as you long as you credit what are posting, it's ok to post a paragraph or 2. That's what I try do to do, then add the link if someone wants to read more. That way people can answer your question right away if they know it Thank you
 
  • #62
beesy said:
I can't find Di Maio's testimony. All I saw was his name on the witness list. Before I try to wade through this, could you give me a rundown please? My research skills done got all used up
Oh..it is just a chart listing all the evidence that they think is wrong or needs to be retested....saying that the state labeled blood on the back of her nightshirt as cast off blood..but in reality might have been some of her own blood and that it wasn't necessary what the state had labeled. You know..the same old bs. I looked a long time for that little bit of nothing! :p
 
  • #63
beesy said:
Do they tell you why there SHOULD be? High velocity is from a gun, not from swinging a knife. Go to the link on this thread.
The site says knives, fists, hachets are medium velocity not low velocity. If you have been using the math formula they stated then you need to change your calculations.

They even say cast off can be medium velocity too.
 
  • #64
beesy said:
I thought you meant Darlie's site said it would have to be there. That's why I just blew it off. I've been sick today and haven't looked. Can you post that paragraph for us?

Yeah, I think the vaulted part is the entry way, but I'm not sure.

Impact spatter produces a random dispersion of small blood droplets. The exact pattern of spatter is dependant on the velocity of the force striking the victim. Low velocity spatter patterns would result from a victim receiving a blow with a blunt object and if repeated blows are delivered a series of spatter patterns would result each from a single blow. High velocity spatter occurs as the result of a gunshot. If an individual is shot at close range there will also be a mist-like high velocity spatter of blood backwards onto the perpetrator’s clothing.
This where they explain the speeds of velocity. Low impact is blunt objfect, High is gun.
http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=18&id=28138http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=18&id=28138http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=18&id=28138
The site beesy listed says knives are medium velocity.
 
  • #65
G.I.RattlesnakeJane said:
The site beesy listed says knives are medium velocity.
This is the site beesy posted. Did I post another one? Beesy's brain all fried up right now.



http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=18&id=28138http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=18&id=28138http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=18&id=28138
do you mean this one?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bloodspatter.com/BPATut28.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bloodspatter.com/BPATutorial.htm&h=377&w=563&sz=40&tbnid=nf1DNB47_rQ9RM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=131&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCast-off%2Bblood%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLG,GGLG:2005-48,GGLG:en%26sa%3DG

I forgot I posted it! I kept looking at the first one when I was answering your Q's! Sorry Give me a chance to catch up with you. This past week on here has been a bit frustrating. So I'll have to read it again. Everytime you asked any blood Q I thought you were saying it was from Darlie's site or the first site I posted. The officer training site. I'm sorry spooky that they use a little bloody hand to show transfer, isn't it?
 
  • #66
beesy said:
I thought you meant Darlie's site said it should have to be there. That's why I just blew it off. I've been sick today and haven't looked. Can you post that paragraph for us?
Yeah, I think the vaulted part is the entry way, but I'm not sure.

Impact spatter produces a random dispersion of small blood droplets. The exact pattern of spatter is dependant on the velocity of the force striking the victim. Low velocity spatter patterns would result from a victim receiving a blow with a blunt object and if repeated blows are delivered a series of spatter patterns would result each from a single blow. High velocity spatter occurs as the result of a gunshot. If an individual is shot at close range there will also be a mist-like high velocity spatter of blood backwards onto the perpetrator’s clothing.
This where they explain the types of velocity. Low impact is blunt object, High is gun.
http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=18&id=28138http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=18&id=28138http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=18&id=28138
Are you feeling better today beesy? :blowkiss:
 
  • #67
deandaniellws said:
Are you feeling better today beesy? :blowkiss:
Not really, I sent you a PM. Thanks for that joke, it was cute and for the kisses
 
  • #68
beesy said:
I can't find Di Maio's testimony. All I saw was his name on the witness list. Before I try to wade through this, could you give me a rundown please? My research skills done got all used up
Volume 43, Dr DiMaio
 
  • #69
deandaniellws said:
He did not testify. The defense did not choose to let him continue with his tests and therefore he was not called to testify. It is only in the appellate process that they took his affidavit, but it doesn't carry much weight because he didn't complete any tests to make any statements about. All he can say is that he recommends tests be made.
 
  • #70
Goody said:
He did not testify. The defense did not choose to let him continue with his tests and therefore he was not called to testify. It is only in the appellate process that they took his affidavit, but it doesn't carry much weight because he didn't complete any tests to make any statements about. All he can say is that he recommends tests be made.
Yeah, I know. But it was the closest thing I could find relating to the cast off blood being something else besides cast off blood. Does that make sense? There was a question about the dropplets of blood being aspirations rather than cast off blood.
 
  • #71
G.I.RattlesnakeJane said:
The site says knives, fists, hachets are medium velocity not low velocity. If you have been using the math formula they stated then you need to change your calculations.

They even say cast off can be medium velocity too.
Well, droplets flying off of a bat or board repeatedly hitting someone would fly a lot faster than those off of a knife repeatedly stabbing someone.

Don't forget those no velocity drops as well. They occur with the source is not moving. You know, like standing at the sink building up the courage to cut one's throat?
 
  • #72
G.I.RattlesnakeJane said:
The site beesy listed says knives are medium velocity.
There may be some differences of opinon on velocity by the experts but overall common sense will tell you that, regardless of the term they use, blood can fly off of a knife as it is being raised and lowered. And until some expert is willing to step forward and say that those droplets could be something else and then back that opinion up with a test we can see and results that are impressive, the droplets in question will continue to be cast off to us. Just saying something could happen is not enough to discredit Bevel's findings.
 
  • #73
beesy said:
Do they tell you why there SHOULD be? High velocity is from a gun, not from swinging a knife. Go to the link on this thread.
I did and it says knives are medium velocity 25 fps .
I got it goody......... from THE SITE, EUREKA ..if the person is kneeling over then the 90 degree mark is directly in front of them about head level when leaning forward. Take the top spot and draw a line. It may show level or slightly upward. next spot follow angle down, etc. It should lineup with the knife blade tip where the blood is being cast off. I like that site thanks for the link.
 
  • #74
RE: post "59
did and it says knives are medium velocity 25 fps .
I got it goody......... from THE SITE, EUREKA ..if the person is kneeling over then the 90 degree mark is directly in front of them about head level when leaning forward. Take the top spot and draw a line. It may show level or slightly upward. next spot follow angle down, etc. It should lineup with the knife blade tip where the blood is being cast off. I like that site thanks for the link.


Which one of the links? I posted both of them. One is from the police training and the other a google link. Which one are you referring to?
 
  • #75
deandaniellws said:
Are you feeling better today beesy? :blowkiss:[/QUOTE

Hope you don't have the al queda croup cold as I call it hangs on forever.

It is called Blood Splatter about 5 pages long gory site. It says knives are medium velocity and that cast off can be too. It has a neat map showing how cast off blood leaves the knife and is projected up the wall and to a 90 degree angle to the tip of the blade at the apex of the arc.

I've been looking at all the sites I could about blood, women who kill, etc.
 
  • #76
Goody said:
I think I picked it up in a Dr Lee case. I am a huge fan of his. Or it could have been something Ann Rule wrote about. (Been reading a couple of her books lately) She is very meticulous about her facts. No one is perfect but she does an excellent job of explaining evidence and what is going on with experts, etc. If you don't agree that air bubbles could cause a donut hole pattern in a droplet, I guess that is your perrogative, but it makes sense to me.
It makes sense to me that the pattern of blood would leave a hole but several splatters would be around this void. I think that is what Dr Lee meant. I can't even blow smoke rings and I don't think my lungs can do it with blood. I think you have Dr. Lee's explanation confused. A pattern circular in nature, would mean several droplets of blood forming a circular pattern, leaving an empty space like a donut in the middle of the pattern, not each drop of blood. Remember that site it says blood STAYS in droplets and hits the surface. The surface also helps to detrmine the pattern. Hard smooth surfaces like glass would leave spikes around the droplet if it was dripping blood. I can't get a good enough view of the blood on the table to see anything but that it runs.
 
  • #77
G.I.RattlesnakeJane said:
It makes sense to me that the pattern of blood would leave a hole but several splatters would be around this void. I think that is what Dr Lee meant. I can't even blow smoke rings and I don't think my lungs can do it with blood. I think you have Dr. Lee's explanation confused. A pattern circular in nature, would mean several droplets of blood forming a circular pattern, leaving an empty space like a donut in the middle of the pattern, not each drop of blood. Remember that site it says blood STAYS in droplets and hits the surface. The surface also helps to detrmine the pattern. Hard smooth surfaces like glass would leave spikes around the droplet if it was dripping blood. I can't get a good enough view of the blood on the table to see anything but that it runs.
No offense but I think you are wrong. I have seen droplets like that. They have a little white patch (if it lands on a white surface) in the middle. They don't have to make a perfect circle but there will be a bloodless center even if it is just a dot. There is no way we can learn what is needed to overrule an expert like Bevel just from reading an internet site. At best we might learn enough to understand his findings. Since we can't eyeball the actual shirt we are even more limited. We might recreate drops similar to those he found and if we can do that we might have something to talk about. But there is no way we are going to prove that his findings are not accurate because his tests show what they show no matter what his conclusions are. So if you want to prove Darlie innocent, you have to show NOT that Bevel is wrong but that there are OTHER ways the blood could land where it did, shaped like it was of similar size. And don't forget those little tails!!!
 
  • #78
beesy said:
RE: post "59

Which one of the links? I posted both of them. One is from the police training and the other a google link. Which one are you referring to?
It is the gory site i think goody posted it but your first site has a link in it at the bottom of the page, to this same site I went to both.
 
  • #79
Do I have this right so far, there were cast-off on the front of the T-shirt that were either Devon/Darlie or Damon/Darlie, one of each on each shoulder? I can't see how the two on the left shoulder got there? Right shoulder, makes sense.

The one of the back of the T-shirt, was that a mixture? I couldn't find where they said whose blood it was. Also it had no definitive direction. I don't understand how that can be.

Wow this is hard to figure out exactly what's going on with just the transcript. Wish I had been there.

And I thought I saw some photos of the night shirt that showed the cast-off with numbering. Anybody know where I saw this? All I can find is the one picture on fordarlieroutier.org.
 
  • #80
Goody said:
Volume 43, Dr DiMaio
Is that your point here she couldn't have stabbed herself. I read dr clayton as well right after DiMaio. He said she lost a lot of blood. Could she have been going into shock on the phone?
 

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