The Blood Droplets

[beesy]

Do I have this right so far, there were cast-off on the front of the T-shirt that were either Devon/Darlie or Damon/Darlie, one of each on each shoulder? I can't see how the two on the left shoulder got there? Right shoulder, makes sense.

The one of the back of the T-shirt, was that a mixture? I couldn't find where they said whose blood it was. Also it had no definitive direction. I don't understand how that can be.

Wow this is hard to figure out exactly what's going on with just the transcript. Wish I had been there.

And I thought I saw some photos of the night shirt that showed the cast-off with numbering. Anybody know where I saw this? All I can find is the one picture on fordarlieroutier.org.

The cast-off was on the back of her shirt and it was Damon's. There is one teeny weeny drop of Devon's that could be aspiration. Jane knows the photos on the website better than I do. I know the book. The front of Darlie's shirt is mostly hers

 

[beesy]

It is the gory site i think goody posted it but your first site has a link in it at the bottom of the page, to this same site I went to both.

No, I posted both. The police training site was the first one on this thread and the gory one was the 2nd. All my doings. The little tiny bloody hand makes me so sad. Spooky they would use that and here we are researching a case with a bloody handprint.

 

[justice2]

The cast-off was on the back of her shirt and it was Damon's. There is one teeny weeny drop of Devon's that could be aspiration. Jane knows the photos on the website better than I do. I know the book. The front of Darlie's shirt is mostly hers

OK, now I'm confused. There is cast-off on the front correct? And I take it since this is all mixed, the boys and Darlie's, that this is where everyone is saying Darlie would have to cut herself before stabbing the boys?

I haven't gotten the book yet. I only found pictures of the whole night shirt, nothing up close on her web pages.

It's getting late so let me look at everything again tomorrow.

 

[beesy]

OK, now I'm confused. There is cast-off on the front correct? And I take it since this is all mixed, the boys and Darlie's, that this is where everyone is saying Darlie would have to cut herself before stabbing the boys?

I haven't gotten the book yet. I only found pictures of the whole night shirt, nothing up close on her web pages.

No, the cast-off in Damon's blood that we are all making a big to-do out of is on the back of her nightshirt. The front is possibly mixed, but it's mainly hers and there's no cast-off on the front. When she was leaning over Damon stabbing him, his blood cast-off the knife as it came up for another plunge, landing on her back. Passerbys don't get cast-off on their backs. This is a very important piece of evidence. Only the killer would have cast-off in the victim's blood on her back. The 1 pin-sized spot of Devon's is on her back also and is probably aspirated blood.
Darlie did not cut herself before stabbing the boys. The cast-off in Damon's blood is on top of her blood. This means she cut her throat after she stabbed the boys and she thought Damon was dead. She had to stab him again and that is when the cast-off got on her shirt. That is why her story doesn't fit. The killer left after stabbing her, so she says, the boys were already stabbed, so she says.

 

[Goody]

It is the gory site i think goody posted it but your first site has a link in it at the bottom of the page, to this same site I went to both.

Sorry. I got my links on this from beesy.

 

[Goody]

Is that your point here she couldn't have stabbed herself. I read dr clayton as well right after DiMaio. He said she lost a lot of blood. Could she have been going into shock on the phone?

No. In order to go into shock, your vitals have to change. Hers didn't. At least not by much. She did lose a lot of blood but not enough to send her into shock. Good Lord, she was still talking to people in the ambulance and in the ER. She was alert and knew what she was saying. She even looked into the next cubicle and saw Damon laying there. No reaction. Not a word. She turned away and focused on something else,.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

The Dr. Di Maio, says that her wounds are defensive wounds. It is very hard to cut someone's throat while they are laying down and you are sitting on their waist with one hand your left pinning both wrists together. The only direction darlie can go with her arms is up and up with her head. This makes it harder to get a fatal wound on her. The neck is bent forward and the muscles are taunt. The arms are trying to get free and the stab wounds show a pattern of going for a fatal area. When her arms deflect one wound straight at the heart, the attacker goes for her heart again, but is deflected sideways and gets her shoulder area instead, giving up on the heart the next one is a slashing not stabbing move to her throat. Her upwards movements trying to dislodge her attacker are most likely what saved her life.

 

[beesy]

Volume 43, Dr DiMaio

Thank you, now what does it mean?

 

[beesy]

It is called Blood Splatter about 5 pages long gory site. It says knives are medium velocity and that cast off can be too. It has a neat map showing how cast off blood leaves the knife and is projected up the wall and to a 90 degree angle to the tip of the blade at the apex of the arc

It's blood spatter, not splatter. I finally found the part you are referring to. Ok, from what I could tell it said that cast-off from a knife could be low or medium velocity and that would depend on the size of the droplets. I think we all know the cast-off in Damon's blood on Darlie's back is rather small, so I think it would be low velocity.
http://www.bloodspatter.com/bloodspatter.pdf
I could not copy and paste this, but it's about halfway down the page under Weapon Cast-Off. That site is freaky. It's like they are trying to make it gruesome, like a Halloween page.

 

[Goody]

Thank you, now what does it mean? [url="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_10.gif"]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_10.gif[/url]

Someone could not find Dr DiMaio's testimony. Just posting where to find it.

 

[Goody]

The Dr. Di Maio, says that her wounds are defensive wounds. It is very hard to cut someone's throat while they are laying down and you are sitting on their waist with one hand your left pinning both wrists together. The only direction darlie can go with her arms is up and up with her head. This makes it harder to get a fatal wound on her. The neck is bent forward and the muscles are taunt. The arms are trying to get free and the stab wounds show a pattern of going for a fatal area. When her arms deflect one wound straight at the heart, the attacker goes for her heart again, but is deflected sideways and gets her shoulder area instead, giving up on the heart the next one is a slashing not stabbing move to her throat. Her upwards movements trying to dislodge her attacker are most likely what saved her life.

Come on, Jane. Have you ever know anyone who was attacked by someone who did NOT get any bruises or marks on their face and upper torso. She gets one little stab on her forearm, one slash across her neck (which is the hardest part of her body to get to) and a couple of nicks....and one little cut on her shoulder. Where are all the stabs in her hands as she tried to push that knife away? Where are the all the stabs he made when he missed his target? Or did he only take two or three swings at her? And what about the couch? Why wasn't it stabbed as they struggled? I guess he never missed her and hit it.

 

[beesy]

Re: post #70:
The cast-off in Damon's blood that we are all making a big to-do out of is on the back of her nightshirt. The front is mostly hers , but there is a bit of cast-off in Damon's blood on the front.

This is cami's post from the thread She Cut Her Own Throat. I don't think she'll mind me posting it here, but if she does she can slap me.
by cami
Quote:

It does give a directional view of how the blood came to be on the shirt. The demonstration by the blood expert, Bevel, shows exactly how those cast-off drops came to be on the back and front shoulder of Darlie's nightshirt. As she lifted the knife and brought it back down again, blood flew off it onto the back of her night shirt, as she brought her hand down again, it landed on the front shoulder of her nightshirt.

Yes, even if it's mixed with Darlie's blood the pattern can still be discerned. WE've seen the pattern, it was pointed out in the demonstration on the documentary Invisible Intruder. The blood drops have tails, tails that point toward the source of the blood--down to up. It was mixed with both boys blood but still in cast-off patterns on the back of her nightshirt, because it mixed on the knife and not on her shirt...it's not blood transfer.

It's all in Bevel's testimony, he was qualified as the blood expert, not Chris Brown. In fact Chris Brown has no qualifications whatsoever in forenics or crime scene investigation so his book MTJD is based on his personal opinions only and is not a good source of information about this crime. It's valuable for the CS photos only.

Link to Bevel's testimony Volume 38

 

[beesy]

Someone could not find Dr DiMaio's testimony. Just posting where to find it.

That was me. Thank you! I was asking for your take on it.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

It's blood spatter, not splatter. I finally found the part you are referring to. Ok, from what I could tell it said that cast-off from a knife could be low or medium velocity and that would depend on the size of the droplets. I think we all know the cast-off in Damon's blood on Darlie's back is rather small, so I think it would be low velocity.
http://www.bloodspatter.com/bloodspatter.pdf
I could not copy and paste this, but it's about halfway down the page under Weapon Cast-Off. That site is freaky. It's like they are trying to make it gruesome, like a Halloween page.

It has a gory cover page but the description of cast off is pretty complete. Thats what I meant by a map. How close to the knife print where the knife was laid down is the spatter to the wall.

Please clairfy blood spatter of both childen was found on her right shoulder back. The blood is mixed but can be determined to be cast off as it has a tear drop shape pointing which direction is the point.

The site also says you can map out the direction someone was walking by the way the blood droplets fall. Standing still, walking and even running. The drops tell the direction of the bleeder. HMMM.

Where is the rest of the cast off from the first child Damon. If the blood is mixed and one drop is on her back then where is the rest of it?

 

[CyberLaw]

I just happen to see a show last night called True Crime Scene.

It had the "Routier" case and the show was not bad.

They seemed to focus that the knife that had blood on it, if it was dropped as Darlie claimed and picked up, then it would have left a pattern in he garage. It did not.

Also if Darlie was "fighting" with her attacker, thin "streaks" of blood would be evident.

Also the cast off on her night shirt.

That her feet did not have, any cuts on them and that blood was under the smashed glass in the kitchen.

That she walked and did not run through the kitchen.

But they did "allude" to Darin having something to do with it, or not only him but he left the door unlocked that night, so he could kill Darlie and collect on 200K insurance.

But they really did focus a lot on the blood evidence, they even had 2 litres of human blood so they could "re-inact" the crime.

Talk about realistic.....

 

[beesy]

The Dr. Di Maio, says that her wounds are defensive wounds. It is very hard to cut someone's throat while they are laying down and you are sitting on their waist with one hand your left pinning both wrists together. The only direction darlie can go with her arms is up and up with her head. This makes it harder to get a fatal wound on her. The neck is bent forward and the muscles are taunt. The arms are trying to get free and the stab wounds show a pattern of going for a fatal area. When her arms deflect one wound straight at the heart, the attacker goes for her heart again, but is deflected sideways and gets her shoulder area instead, giving up on the heart the next one is a slashing not stabbing move to her throat. Her upwards movements trying to dislodge her attacker are most likely what saved her life.

Dr. DiMaio says the bruises could be defensive wounds. He then describes how you can get defensive wounds on your hands and arms. He can say all he wants about the neck wound. He did not know any of the other evidence. Washed away blood in the sink, no large amount of blood on the sofa, no cuts on the sofa. He did not know anything more about the case then what he was given. He was not in court for any of the other part of the trial. I think if he knew all of the blood evidence, he'd agree that the cut to her throat was self-inflicted.:twocents: Under cross he admits that it's possible to inflict all of the those wounds, including the bft bruises, not probable, he says, but possible. He also states that it would impossible for someone to sleep through being beaten with a blunt object and being sliced with a knife. He says he is not aware of any head trauma Darlie sustained which would cause long-term amnesia. You are misleading posters/lurkers when you say DiMaio said they were not self-inflicted. Out of all of those pages of his testimony, picking out one sentence is not fair.
Dr. DiMaio says that fists are considered blunt objects. I then did some research to see if holding someone's arms down would cause deep blunt force trauma bruises and the answer is no. That would not cause defensive wounds.
You can't just dismiss the other expert's thoughts about the bruises not being defensive wounds and being self-inflicted by a flat, blunt object. You can't pick and choose the evidence you like. And you can't or shouldn't make wide sweeping statements without an IMO or a :twocents:
http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-43.php#4

 

[Goody]

That was me. Thank you! I was asking for your take on it.

Okay. I just finished rereading Dr DiMaio's testimony. He did not hurt the prosecution's case at all. In fact, it was more of an opportunity for him to educate people on forensics rather than an opportunity for the defense to convince the jury that Darlie didn't do it.


He offered his opinion on:
the bruises
the stab tears in the shirt
the neck slash and shoulder wound
the seriousness of the wound and blood loss
the arm wound


In the end he could not state anything solid, so he really didn't change anything the experts for the state had to say. He just sounded like the typical defense expert trying to make much ado about nothing. He threw around the words possible and probable but even that carried little weight given the circumstances. At one point, he even had to admit that a crimson colored bruise in the police photos could have been newer than the others. He tried to avoid it by saying he couldn't age it, which basically pulled the weight out from under some of his other conclusions about the other bruises. I really don't think he hurt the state at all.


Maybe the most informative thing he offered was that she bled a lot and the her body reacted to the initial blood loss by compensating with other fluids which is why she didn't go into shock. Her body didn't show the consequences of the blood loss until the next day. In the end this probably hurt her more than helped her.

I don't know why her supporters think there is something earthshattering in this testimony because it clearly is not there.

 

[beesy]

It has a gory cover page but the description of cast off is pretty complete. Thats what I meant by a map. How close to the knife print where the knife was laid down is the spatter to the wall

I don't know how to draw a map. You can see the knife outline in a wide shot of the FR in MTJD or maybe cami knows or it's probably in the transcripts.

Please clairfy blood spatter of both childen was found on her right shoulder back. The blood is mixed but can be determined to be cast off as it has a tear drop shape pointing which direction is the point

beesy all lost again. Where is there mixed blood on her shirt? Mixed is not when blood overlays other blood.

Where is the rest of the cast off from the first child Damon. If the blood is mixed and one drop is on her back then where is the rest of it

Damon is not the first child. Damon was the middle boy All of the cast-off drops of blood are Damon's. They aren't mixed , either is the teeny dot of Devon's. I don't have any idea where the rest of the cast-off is. If some was on Darlie, which there was, then she stabbed him.

 

[Goody]

I just happen to see a show last night called True Crime Scene.

It had the "Routier" case and the show was not bad.

They seemed to focus that the knife that had blood on it, if it was dropped as Darlie claimed and picked up, then it would have left a pattern in he garage. It did not.

The knife was dropped in the kitchen near the threshold to the UR led to the garage. If they said garage, they got that wrong. But they were right that there was no blood pattern on the vinyl floor that would indicate the knife had been thrown or dropped there.

 

[beesy]

The knife was dropped in the kitchen near the threshold to the UR led to the garage. If they said garage, they got that wrong. But they were right that there was no blood pattern on the vinyl floor that would indicate the knife had been thrown or dropped there.

Right, and when LE did experiments with Snooty's blood, oops, I mean cow's blood, the knife always left spatter or some sort of pattern.