The Blood Droplets

[beesy]

Hi Jeana.......I should've been more clear. I meant cast off from Darlie's hand/arm swinging about while maybe trying to help the boys. When I was cleaning up my dad, I was so overwhelmed and I know I was swinging my hand to wrap his arm up...hence the blood on my shoulder.

Then again, as was stated here, there were no foots steps in blood on the carpet so if she was injured when she says she was, then she would have had to help the boys after that cut on her throat and that clearly didn't happen.......so the blood from the cast off must of come before the cut on her throat. In otherwords the boys blood was underneathe Darlie's blood on her shirt.

I was just asking could that have been how Darlie got blood on her back? Just playing with info here. Coulda woulda shoulda........

Cast-off is blood traveling from a bleeding source due to the motion of the bleeding source. i.e. A bloody knife being brought up again to stab a bleeding person. All of the cast-off is in Damon's blood. There is one teeny drop of Devon's blood which could be aspiration.
The cast-off of Damon's overlays Darlie's blood, proof that he was stabbed again after she had cut herself. This is a very important piece of evidence. Darlie said the intruder fled and dropped the knife. She said the boys had already been stabbed before she was. The fact that Damon's cast-off blood overlays hers shows(proves) that there was no intruder to cut Damon again after he had attacked Darlie.

 

[deanws]

You only have to listen to that 911 call to ascertain that Darlie was not in shock....."someone just walked in her and did it Darin" sounds pretty normal to me. "we could have gotten the prints maybe" as well sounds pretty normal to me.....but I am not in the medical field either so I will take the word of the experienced paramedics.

I guess she did not bleed as much as I thought. It looks like a ton on that picture of the night shirt.

 

[cami]

Yes, I noticed. I've seen crimescenes before and I've never seen one like this, that's for sure.
I noticed the vacuum cleaner tipped over and the plastic chair outside, as though to give the air that the guy tripped over a plastic chair, but he sure managed to manuver about in a house he was not familar with and not disturb a single thing other than to dump a vacuum?? uh huh~

Darin probably messed that area up around the back door as an effort to show someone was there and broke in..........he was outside so he may have been staging at that time. OR that disarray was from the kids playing and it was always like that.

Those who argue that the light from the moon helped guide this 'man' through the crowed garage can't explain how this guy missed a boat load of jewels sitting out in plain view and other valuables that could be sold.
Why was this intruder in there????? To what? Kill two kids and attack some sleeping mother? Did he decide after all that drama he no longer wanted to rob them?

I want to learn more about the blood.............can you direct me? Playing devils advocate for just a sec, could the cast off on her shirt be from touching the boys and throwing her hands up.............Stay with me for a minute. My father got a wound from his scooter hitting a tree a couple of weeks ago....I was there helping with some yard stuff and he came swinging around the corner and ripped his arm right open- I was in a panic to stop the bleeding- which was really spewing out. I got blood everywhere on me. Even on the the top of my shoulder.
Could the blood have been from something like that? or was there a pattern of 'spray' that would be inconsistant of a hand swinging around in a panic mode to try to stop bleeding rather than inflicting bleeding...

Point me in a direction to read on this, okay?

You would need to read Bevel's testimony on the cast-off on the back and front of her shirt. However, I've seen the demonstration he did in the Forensics Files program, Invisible Intruder and the pattern, the cast-off drops have tails that point toward the source of the blood from bottom to top. The pattern was exactly the same as the cast-off on the back of the shirt.

If Darlie did something to help the children and by the testimony of the first officer on the scene, she did not...I don't believe what Darin says about her holding Devon's wounds closed... I think the blood would be down on the hem/bottom of the shirt and a transfer of blood if she was down there helping them. If she were swinging her hands around with the boys blood on them, I think the drops would be all over her nightshirt and not on the back as they are. Just my opinion though and I am not expert, LOl.

 

[cami]

Hi Jeana.......I should've been more clear. I meant cast off from Darlie's hand/arm swinging about while maybe trying to help the boys. When I was cleaning up my dad, I was so overwhelmed and I know I was swinging my hand to wrap his arm up...hence the blood on my shoulder.

Then again, as was stated here, there were no foots steps in blood on the carpet so if she was injured when she says she was, then she would have had to help the boys after that cut on her throat and that clearly didn't happen.......so the blood from the cast off must of come before the cut on her throat. In otherwords the boys blood was underneathe Darlie's blood on her shirt.

I was just asking could that have been how Darlie got blood on her back? Just playing with info here. Coulda woulda shoulda........

No, Damon's blood overlays hers on the back of the shirt so she was already cut and bleeding when Damon was stabbed a second time.

 

[SanQuentinvisitor]

No, Damon's blood overlays hers on the back of the shirt so she was already cut and bleeding when Damon was stabbed a second time.

Oh crap, Cami......LOL. I have much to learn about *ick* blood......

I need a night to just read and read what you all have on these threads. It's so hard to do this and have my job interfer in the daytime! LOL.......One night I'll just log on from home and go through this information and see how this crime happened. I am curious......too much so.

 

[beesy]

I guess she did not bleed as much as I thought. It looks like a ton on that picture of the night shirt.

It does and we know she bled onto the counter and into the sink. It just probably looked scarier than it was. I know it scared her to pieces.

 

[beesy]

You only have to listen to that 911 call to ascertain that Darlie was not in shock....."someone just walked in her and did it Darin" sounds pretty normal to me. "we could have gotten the prints maybe" as well sounds pretty normal to me.....but I am not in the medical field either so I will take the word of the experienced paramedics.

Oh, I know, walking around, standing, sitting, talking clearly, understanding and following commands, making eye contact, getting on the gurney herself, even on the phone switching from hysteria to "blahblahblahDARIN" I don't know how anyone can blow all of that off as denial or "people act differently". It is what it is.

 

[cami]

Oh crap, Cami......LOL. I have much to learn about *ick* blood......

I need a night to just read and read what you all have on these threads. It's so hard to do this and have my job interfer in the daytime! LOL.......One night I'll just log on from home and go through this information and see how this crime happened. I am curious......too much so.

The blood evidence is the smoking gun in this case, imo. And it all points to her.

 

[Goody]

You would need to read Bevel's testimony on the cast-off on the back and front of her shirt. However, I've seen the demonstration he did in the Forensics Files program, Invisible Intruder and the pattern, the cast-off drops have tails that point toward the source of the blood from bottom to top. The pattern was exactly the same as the cast-off on the back of the shirt.

If Darlie did something to help the children and by the testimony of the first officer on the scene, she did not...I don't believe what Darin says about her holding Devon's wounds closed... I think the blood would be down on the hem/bottom of the shirt and a transfer of blood if she was down there helping them. If she were swinging her hands around with the boys blood on them, I think the drops would be all over her nightshirt and not on the back as they are. Just my opinion though and I am not expert, LOl.

Also, wouldn't there be more of her blood spotted or slung on the furniture and walls if she tried to help the kids and got their blood on her hands and then was flinging her hands around as she moved, etc? If she could get it on her shirt that way, she could certainly get it on other things that way. We see some of that in the foyer just in the brief period she was in there.

 

[Goody]

I guess she did not bleed as much as I thought. It looks like a ton on that picture of the night shirt.

The night shirt (an oversized tee shirt) absorbed the blood as it seeped from her neck. It don't know how much it would take for it to become saturated but I suspect a lot of what we see is blood spreading on the material, not necessarily because more new blood was being absorbed. It tends to do that. If you have ever laid a tissue on a blood drop, it will absorb into a much larger spot than the blood drop actually was.

The blood drops in the photos are probably much smaller than they appear, esp on the vinyl as it does not absorb the blood the way cloth will.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I have an old couch I need to get rid of. Not even worth going to Goodwill. I will volunteer to do a reinactment and take photos. A white T shirt is cheap.


I don't have carpeting I put in all ceramic tile. I can't reconstruct any blood on the carpet. The carpet I have in the bedrooms is NOT getting messed up.

I can have a person closer to Darlie's size than me be Darlie.

There is a meat processing plant close to Lubbock and maybe I can talk my hubby into getting me some cows blood.

I think I solved the problem of how to get the blood to drip down the arm and even the neck simulating the wounds, I have a similar kitchen knife but what does my model stab? A pillow is much softer than a human body and the knife is going to get the blood wiped off it if a cloth item is used. I am kinda scared to do this as I don't want anyone to hurt themselves accidentally- explain that at the ER.

So whatever ideas you have that might make this safer or requests to do any other type of test I'll be happy to try for you. No carpet though, I do have some drywall pieces.

 

[Goody]

I have an old couch I need to get rid of. Not even worth going to Goodwill. I will volunteer to do a reinactment and take photos. A white T shirt is cheap.


I don't have carpeting I put in all ceramic tile. I can't reconstruct any blood on the carpet. The carpet I have in the bedrooms is NOT getting messed up.

I can have a person closer to Darlie's size than me be Darlie.

There is a meat processing plant close to Lubbock and maybe I can talk my hubby into getting me some cows blood.

I think I solved the problem of how to get the blood to drip down the arm and even the neck simulating the wounds, I have a similar kitchen knife but what does my model stab? A pillow is much softer than a human body and the knife is going to get the blood wiped off it if a cloth item is used. I am kinda scared to do this as I don't want anyone to hurt themselves accidentally- explain that at the ER.

So whatever ideas you have that might make this safer or requests to do any other type of test I'll be happy to try for you. No carpet though, I do have some drywall pieces.

How about getting a chicken or turkey and putting a bag of blood in it? Skin and tissue will also wipe the knife clean (or cleaner) as it comes out.

And you can put some old towels on the floor to be the carpet, but use light colors.

Make sure your model is a mature adult and not a teenager. LOL!

Also make sure your blade is the same size as the one used in the crime. Don't use a steak knife or perry knife. Maybe you can figure out how to put a plastic guard on the butcher knife so it won't cut what it comes into contact with, but then you might reduce your conditions so in the end you will have to decide what your approach should be. Good luck and BE CAREFUL!

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Establish clear and precise directions in this reinactment.

According to the blood sites I have visited the arc of the knife will deposit blood in a frontward trajectory up to 90 degrees above the persons head. I need to position a plumb bob from the ceiling to establish this angle.

Should I position my model with her right shoulder right under the plumb bob.
I think I should circle with a marker this area on the shirt, to see if she can get cast off on it.
Gives her a place to aim.

Does this sound logical?

I need to get better measurements of where precisely the cast off on the shirt is. How many inches down from the shoulder seam? I'm going to read the testimony some more.

 

[beesy]

Establish clear and precise directions in this reinactment.

According to the blood sites I have visited the arc of the knife will deposit blood in a frontward trajectory up to 90 degrees above the persons head. I need to position a plumb bob from the ceiling to establish this angle.

Should I position my model with her right shoulder right under the plumb bob.
I think I should circle with a marker this area on the shirt, to see if she can get cast off on it.
Gives her a place to aim.

Does this sound logical?

I need to get better measurements of where precisely the cast off on the shirt is. How many inches down from the shoulder seam? I'm going to read the testimony some more.

I asked you this before Jane when you said your husband had no problem pinning you down and even left some bruises, right? I asked you to see if he could pin you down, pretend to cut your throat at the same angle as Darlie's, cut your arm, and cause all of those bruises. As far as the cut on her neck, shoulder, and arm, you could draw them on with ink so he'd know where to aim, maybe in black. Then he could use a red marker to try to hit the black lines. The marker wouldn't be as long so maybe you can think of something else to use. You'd have to draw on your neck, etc. though or how else would we know he hit the right spot?

 

[Goody]

I asked you this before Jane when you said your husband had no problem pinning you down and even left some bruises, right? I asked you to see if he could pin you down, pretend to cut your throat at the same angle as Darlie's, cut your arm, and cause all of those bruises. As far as the cut on her neck, shoulder, and arm, you could draw them on with ink so he'd know where to aim, maybe in black. Then he could use a red marker to try to hit the black lines. The marker wouldn't be as long so maybe you can think of something else to use. You'd have to draw on your neck, etc. though or how else would we know he hit the right spot?

Actually that would be a good experiment. If the attacker could put something on his hands to show where they/weapon hit with each blow, it would go a long way to proving that whether someone could be hit only on the underside of the arms without a blow hitting other parts of the body. I don't think it can be done, but I sure wouldn't mind seeing the results of an experiment that tried. (No real punches though)

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Maybe one of those stunt knives that bends. Cover it in cod liver or mineral oil with a food dye in it. The dye would leave marks were the model is hit and the blood can be in baggies on the neck and arm after we have found where we hit the mark. The blood site beesy and goody have posted gave good info on how many drops per second. Piercing the baggies with a needle or pin to simulate bleeding. That's why I need to know approx how much blood Darlie lost. That might also give us some timing idea, how long does it take to bleed X amount.

I have a real knife, I have a model, I have baggies, I have duct tape, I have an old couch. Need to find video camera in boxes in son's room. Need to go to mal -wart for T shirts ugh.......

I still need an approx idea of the order I should attempt these things. The prosecutions scenario in as much detail as I can reproduce etc.

 

[beesy]

Maybe one of those stunt knives that bends. Cover it in cod liver or mineral oil with a food dye in it. The dye would leave marks were the model is hit and the blood can be in baggies on the neck and arm after we have found where we hit the mark. The blood site beesy and goody have posted gave good info on how many drops per second. Piercing the baggies with a needle or pin to simulate bleeding. That's why I need to know approx how much blood Darlie lost. That might also give us some timing idea, how long does it take to bleed X amount.
I have a real knife, I have a model, I have baggies, I have duct tape, I have an old couch. Need to find video camera in boxes in son's room. Need to go to mal -wart for T shirts ugh.......
I still need an approx idea of the order I should attempt these things. The prosecutions scenario in as much detail as I can reproduce etc.

What I'm talking about is much simpler. I'm not concerned with the blood spatter. I want to know if an intruder could have pinned Darlie's arms down to cause those bruises(isn't that your theory), and cut her throat, shoulder and arm in one attack. You don't need a real knife and pins or to know how much blood she lost. Draw the wounds on yourself with a red marker and then take a black marker and have your attacker try hit the lines. It doesn't even really matter if the marker is shorter than the knife. A bendable stunt knife isn't going to work. You need a marker to follow the drawn on wounds. You're not just hitting the lines, you have to follow them. If you don't draw the wounds on first, the attacker won't know what to aim for. Why don't I do this, you ask? Because I don't need to. I know an intruder could not have caused those bruises by pinning her down. He could not have cut her where she was cut from that position. Even if you put another man in there, it won't work.
Not that it matters, but I'm the one who posted all of those sites about blood spatter. Only me.

 

[Goody]

Maybe one of those stunt knives that bends. Cover it in cod liver or mineral oil with a food dye in it. The dye would leave marks were the model is hit and the blood can be in baggies on the neck and arm after we have found where we hit the mark. The blood site beesy and goody have posted gave good info on how many drops per second. Piercing the baggies with a needle or pin to simulate bleeding. That's why I need to know approx how much blood Darlie lost. That might also give us some timing idea, how long does it take to bleed X amount.

I have a real knife, I have a model, I have baggies, I have duct tape, I have an old couch. Need to find video camera in boxes in son's room. Need to go to mal -wart for T shirts ugh.......

I still need an approx idea of the order I should attempt these things. The prosecutions scenario in as much detail as I can reproduce etc.

Why not use a sharpie so everywhere it touches, it will leave a mark. It will give you an idea how easy or difficult it might be to wield a knife and hit only targeted pointed? Tape the sharpie to the real knife. You don't want to accidently cut yourself or anyone.

 

[Goody]

What I'm talking about is much simpler. I'm not concerned with the blood spatter. I want to know if an intruder could have pinned Darlie's arms down to cause those bruises(isn't that your theory), and cut her throat, shoulder and arm in one attack. You don't need a real knife and pins or to know how much blood she lost. Draw the wounds on yourself with a red marker and then take a black marker and have your attacker try hit the lines. It doesn't even really matter if the marker is shorter than the knife. A bendable stunt knife isn't going to work. You need a marker to follow the drawn on wounds. You're not just hitting the lines, you have to follow them. If you don't draw the wounds on first, the attacker won't know what to aim for. Why don't I do this, you ask? Because I don't need to. I know an intruder could not have caused those bruises by pinning her down. He could not have cut her where she was cut from that position. Even if you put another man in there, it won't work.
Not that it matters, but I'm the one who posted all of those sites about blood spatter. Only me.

Hey, give me some credit. I reposted yours. That ought to count for something!!!!

 

[beesy]

Hey, give me some credit. I reposted yours. That ought to count for something!!!!

awww, I'm sorry Goody Goody Gum Drops. Forgive me? True Grit was on the the other day.