The Box From Hell (BFH) - #1

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Could this be a connection with Damron?

That's what I was thinking too. Not to be stereotypical, but that would explain GB's love for fine clothes, fancy department stores, expensive brandy and fedora's, not to mention the area they chose to live.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

The page where GW was drafting a letter to the Rosicrucian Fellowship to order a copy of a 1959 Ephemeris made me curious, so I did a little research on the organization. I am convinced that Brody was a member of this Christian Mystic organization at one point. From all that we've read about Brody, he had to get his crazy ideas somewhere. I believe it was here. I think he probably split from the orginazation when he felt he was of "teacher" status, and could no longer take direction from the "elders". Basically I think he decided he knew more than them. Read around for a while, and I think many of you will agree.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian_Fellowship

The Rosicrucian Fellowship - "An International Association of Christian Mystics" - was founded in 1909/11 by Max Heindel as herald of the Aquarian Age and with the aim of promulgating the Rosicrucian teachings of the Mystery School of the West, the invisible Rosicrucian Order (which, according to Max Heindel, is an Order in the inner worlds formed in the year 1313 and having no direct connection to physical organizations which call themselves by this name). The Rosicrucian Fellowship conducts Spiritual Healing Services and offers correspondence courses in Esoteric Christianity Philosophy, Spiritual Astrology, and Bible Interpretation. Its headquarters are located in Mount Ecclesia, Oceanside (California), in the United States, and its students are found throughout the world organized in centers and study groups.

 

[Annasmom]

I'm wondering if Damron has any connection to GW's draft status issues. Wasn't he at one time trying to convince the military, or have someone convince the military he was homosexual in order to get out of the draft?

Yes, after his petition for conscientious objector status was denied. But I was never quite sure how much of a ruse this was, if at all.

 

[smile22]

The page where GW was drafting a letter to the Rosicrucian Fellowship to order a copy of a 1959 Ephemeris made me curious, so I did a little research on the organization. I am convinced that Brody was a member of this Christian Mystic organization at one point. From all that we've read about Brody, he had to get his crazy ideas somewhere. I believe it was here. I think he probably split from the orginazation when he felt he was of "teacher" status, and could no longer take direction from the "elders". Basically I think he decided he knew more than them. Read around for a while, and I think many of you will agree.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian_Fellowship

is there a website for this group could we pass his picture around to people from the organization?

 

[laini]

http://www.rosicrucianfellowship.org/
Their headquarters are in Oceanside, CA

 

[Annasmom]

The page where GW was drafting a letter to the Rosicrucian Fellowship to order a copy of a 1959 Ephemeris made me curious, so I did a little research on the organization. I am convinced that Brody was a member of this Christian Mystic organization at one point. From all that we've read about Brody, he had to get his crazy ideas somewhere. I believe it was here. I think he probably split from the orginazation when he felt he was of "teacher" status, and could no longer take direction from the "elders". Basically I think he decided he knew more than them. Read around for a while, and I think many of you will agree.

Rosicrucians are the only organization I know which sells (low-cost) ephemerises used in astrological calculations...easily available, and people interested in astrological charts sometimes order them. So my question is: Who was born in 1959 who so interested GW?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Rosicrucians are the only organization I know which sells (low-cost) ephemerises used in astrological calculations...easily available, and people interested in astrological charts sometimes order them. So my question is: Who was born in 1959 who so interested GW?

Here is a theory. Looking at the records Mr. Ford researched for addresses of MK and GB, Margaret started using the last name Kay around 1959. According to what has been written, Margaret's last known address said she was the widow to ____.

There has been a lot of speculation of why she started using this last name, from the spelling out of her last initial of "K" ,(as in George Brody to George Bee). Another theory is because she sold cosmetics by that name, and lastly to change her name because of her arrest.

Mary Kay cosmetics was founded in 1965, so that can't be it. MK's arrest was in 1952, so you think she would have changed her name sooner than 1959. It wasn't just a pet name, because Mr.Ford actually found her listed in phone directories under that name.

The only possible conclusion I can come up with is she married a man with the last name of KAY in 1959. There are/where MANY people listed with the sir name of Kay in the SF area according to ancestory.com

After seeing that they where ordering a 1959 Ephem. I think they might have been checking the charts for MK marriage, (and/or a possible child she might have had).

Hopefully this makes sence

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Yes, after his petition for conscientious objector status was denied. But I was never quite sure how much of a ruse this was, if at all.

Waters wrote a little to a family friend who was (I belive) an open homosexual requesting that he write a letter claiming that he and Waters were lovers. This does not sound like the actions of someone who truly was homosexual - it sounds more like someone who desperately did not want to go to Viet Nam (my musical hero Bruce Springsteen did the same thing to get out of the draft). If Waters had been homosexual, then it would not have required the amount of subtrafuge that he was attempting. It would have been easy enough to demonstrate his orientation without involving the friend.

I suspect that Waters was not a closeted homosexual at the time of his marriage to Annasmom. What I do not know is if his relationship with Brody may have taken a turn this direction in the subsequent years following the divorce. Brody seemed to demand total control of Waters's life and it seems that could have included his sex life. Brody did spend a lot of time pursuing the attention of female waitresses, so I would envision any sexual relationship between the two Georges as another way to control Waters more than an expression of actual orientation.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

... Brody did spend a lot of time pursuing the attention of female waitresses, so I would envision any sexual relationship between the two Georges as another way to control Waters more than an expression of actual orientation.

I worked at a job post-college/pre-marriage that seemed to attract a large number of homosexual men. I became friends with many of them, and we often had lunch together and sometimes drinks after work. The one thing I can tell you, without a doubt, these particular homosexual men got a big kick out of women flirting with them, and where often very flirtatious themselves. I remember comments such as, "hey she's checking you out...she wants you...you the man...etc." So the fact Brody, (if gay) loved attention from waitresses, is not a surprise. He probably though he might get a bigger piece of cake if he flirted back.


ETA: The only real significance of this is just another possible placement of Anna. Instead of the traditional Mom & Pop family, Anna could have been put into a non-traditional Dad & Pop family. She would be easier to explain to friends of the adoptive family this way. She could be explained simply as an orphan needing a good home, to a couple wanting to raise a child together.

 

[GraceBlue]

Since we are looking at old papers, from the early 70's (before Anna was taken) Does anything stand out in the later years, say 1974-1981? Travel info, insurance policies? It sounds like the worries about insurance policies occured BEFORE Anna disappeared, but what about after she disappeared?

Another question, did the two Georges file for taxes with the IRS? I am guessing GB didnt because he didnt hold a job. I dont know how this works or if it will work but is there a way to find out if he filed for taxes with a dependent under him (Anna) after 1973.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Excellent questions GraceBlue!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

...Another question, did the two Georges file for taxes with the IRS? I am guessing GB didnt because he didnt hold a job. I dont know how this works or if it will work but is there a way to find out if he filed for taxes with a dependent under him (Anna) after 1973.

There is at least one tax return for GW in the BFH post-abduction. Annasmom: Does it still declare Anna as a dependent?

 

[Cubby]

If he itemized, do any deductions stand out? Just thinking as much of a leach as GB was, he might have "advised" GW on what to deduct, how to etc. Wouldn't it be odd if GW claimed GB?

Did one need a social security number to claim a child as a dependent back then like today?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

If he itemized, do any deductions stand out? Just thinking as much of a leach as GB was, he might have "advised" GW on what to deduct, how to etc. Wouldn't it be odd if GW claimed GB?

Did one need a social security number to claim a child as a dependent back then like today?

I didn't get a SS# until I was 15, and my parents claimed me. I was born in 65.

 

[Annasmom]

If he itemized, do any deductions stand out? Just thinking as much of a leach as GB was, he might have "advised" GW on what to deduct, how to etc. Wouldn't it be odd if GW claimed GB?

Did one need a social security number to claim a child as a dependent back then like today?

I don't have any record of this, but I distinctly remember getting a letter from the IRS regarding my claiming Anna as a dependent in either 1972 or 1973, because her father had claimed her and we couldn't both claim her. I remember trying to figure up what we had contributed to her support, and crying because I couldn't see that we had contributed more than what her support checks came to ($175 a month). Obviously I was not thinking straight, but the end result of this was that GW had been claiming her all along and (I think) even claimed her for 1973, though the January support check was the only one and she disappeared mid-month.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Annasmom: In the BFH, there is a California Tax Return for Waters (either 1974 or 1975 - I cannot recall). It may be too obvious for him to have made this starategic error, but did he claim Anna as a dependent on that return?

 

[drema]

I haven't read this forum word for word so bear with me. Just wondering....and this may be a crazy idea. Could Brody have changed Anna's name to Margaret since he was so stuck on the original Margaret and thought Anna was her reincarination?

This is a very interesting case. I do hope for Anna's mom that it is solved some day.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Could Brody have changed Anna's name to Margaret since he was so stuck on the original Margaret and thought Anna was her reincarination?

This is quite possible and one of the scenarios that we have in our mind as we examine various "possible Anna's" off-forum. We also pay close attention to names that are variations off of Anna and Christian (Ann, Christine, ChrisAnn or Christianna, etc.). And especially if we find an Eifee!

 

[tinytown]

I'm new to this forum, but a while back I remember reading that GW asked GB for permission to bring "a picture of Margaret" somewhere. I wondered if that could have been a code for bringing/taking Anna somewhere. I've heard my 80-ish mother say, when two people resemble one another, "she's the picture of her mother or he's the picture of his father."

 

[Annasmom]

Annasmom: In the BFH, there is a California Tax Return for Waters (either 1974 or 1975 - I cannot recall). It may be too obvious for him to have made this starategic error, but did he claim Anna as a dependent on that return?

That's a pretty good memory, Doogie. It seems to be a duplicate or a work sheet for 1975, but he claims no dependents. While looking for this, however, I found something else interesting. I hadn't really looked at the receipts for Child Support. Through September, 1972, they were sent to me, but the October and November payments were made out to Anna Christian Eifee Waters and were endorsed by me "for ACEW, a minor". He had kept the cancelled checks themselves. The September money order would have been sent before he knew Joe and I were married.