The case for murder

[time]

Here is the link to the Today Show Interview With Anne the sister Mary and brother in law. September 30th
MSNBC

Legal points!


Jonah ask for something that was not going to be granted because he did not claim there was any problem with it - he's a lawyer, surrounded by lawyers. He knew darn well what the result would be.

Rebecca's BIL, a police officer, wants to see the police records and thinks they should be available since they closed the case and are claiming no crime occured. I agree, I think it is scary if LE wants to claim in any case that it can simply be determined by them (after a gag order), call it closed, and try to seal the records forever. This should definitely not be permitted when the victim's family has such huge objections and has asked for them. I'd be extremely PO'd if one of my siblings death was ruled a suicide and the records were secret.

 

[justice be served]

Legal points!


Jonah ask for something that was not going to be granted because he did not claim there was any problem with it - he's a lawyer, surrounded by lawyers. He knew darn well what the result would be.

Rebecca's BIL, a police officer, wants to see the police records and thinks they should be available since they closed the case and are claiming no crime occured. I agree, I think it is scary if LE wants to claim in any case that it can simply be determined by them (after a gag order), call it closed, and try to seal the records forever. This should definitely not be permitted when the victim's family has such huge objections and has asked for them. I'd be extremely PO'd if one of my siblings death was ruled a suicide and the records were secret.

BBM You are so right Time. And the fact is that Jonah is NOT family to Rebecca.Yet all courtesies have been extended to him and not Rebecca's kin.

Rebecca's family has every right to see the files - regardless of the fact that they ruled it a suicide. LE has the right to not make the files public because of a suicide - but their right does not extend to withholding the files from the family. This is just beyond belief!
:banghead:

 

[time]

With regards to the Today Show.. I found Anne Curry to be rude and annoying.

"Why should YOU get a copy of the police report.. nobody else does"...... and she goes on to do this how dare you question the police... and they have explained everything...not exactly neutral questioning.... is her dad one of the cops in question? LOL
AND WHY DO THEY NEVER MENTION JONAH SHACKNAI OR MEDICIS... ??????
geez.. it is your right to ask questions and question authority.... it is the USA... I am glad Anne got in the part about how Jonah's request said he was happy with the results.. and never had any additional information that would support re-opening the case.

Anne Curry... you did NO research and didn't know what you were talking about.

I didn't find her rude, I just saw it as typical MSM:

* Cover your behind by looking fair
* Present both sides in an exactly equal fashion (minimal expected)

Unfortunately, this bent in the media leads away from adequate reporting. Think about it... it's silly to assume every issue has exactly two points of view, opposed neatly in a dichotomy and each side gets exactly equal time, argument, etc. This is akin to the lowest level of critical thinking and reasoning and can be done by the majority of 5th graders.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

ABC on The Today Show.... reported the message as..

"She saved him, can he save her"

when I read this ... and now we know about the law suit... just today settled... what if JS tried to committ suicide at one point and RZ saved him..?

so this message could mean... I saved you from suicide but can you save me from suicide? it would be a stab at him... I saved you from suicide but you can't save me from suicide....

I think Jonah Shacknai has some explaning to do.... either way.

 

[justice be served]

when I read this ... and now we know about the law suit... just today settled... what if JS tried to committ suicide at one point and RZ saved him..?

so this message could mean... I saved you from suicide but can you save me from suicide? it would be a stab at him... I saved you from suicide but you can't save me from suicide....

I think Jonah Shacknai has some explaning to do.... either way.

I answered on the other thread but will answer here too:

BBM I'm certainly not an expert on these things, but I don't think narcissists committing suicide is a common thing. Maybe someone who (unfortunately) has information on this can weigh in on that presumption of mine.

 

[time]

I answered on the other thread but will answer here too:

BBM I'm certainly not an expert on these things, but I don't think narcissists committing suicide is a common thing. Maybe someone who (unfortunately) has information on this can weigh in on that presumption of mine.

I did quite a bit of research on narcissist over the past decade and you are correct.
The Narcissist - From Abuse to Suicide

I could not consider it likely that (the narcissist) had committed suicide. He had pronounced egomania, and such a man does not kill himself.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder | Peace and Healing

These patients usually consistently have relationship problems, and therapy does become stressful and tiresome. Narcissists DO NOT try to commit suicide.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqzltwd27kM"]Narcissism Myths: Suicide, Types, Crises - YouTube[/ame]

Narcissists very rarely commit suicide. They react with suicidal ideation and reactive psychoses to severe stress

 

[justice be served]

Time, thank you for the wonderful links on narcissts and suicide. You are the cat's meow!

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Do you think Anne or a member of her team has had a chance to look at the investor list for Medicis... anyone on their interesting or involved in this case? That would be another good reason to open the case if one of the officers was a shareholder. Coronado being what it is...a playground for the wealthy... a small enclave... the LE there.. in my opinion could have a cozy relationship. They would certainly be very protective of their "bosses" and being so small they know each other well. This case was so odd it needed to be investigated thorougly as a possible murder and it obviously was not.

 

[time]

Do you think Anne or a memer of her team has had a chance to look at the investor list for Medicis... anyone on their interesting or involved in this case?

I did look at insider trading for the company. Not sure it indicates anything and I'm not very savvy on this. However, I did note recent activity:

http://www.insider-monitor.com/trading/cik859368.html

2011-09-22 Option Exercise 21,000 24.99 524,790
2011-08-15 Sale 14,000 37.26 521,696
2011-07-06 <modsnip> Option Exercise 276,290 26.95 7,446,015

Perhaps other dates are of more interest though - like when the books were being cooked?

 

[MyBelle]

Did you read the comments at the link? It didn't have to do with the company or an employee doing anything. It simply had to do with possible interactions between DS and JS. Besides, how would you know that neither death has any ties to something related to the company? You do know that the books were cooked, right? Look at the years the books were cooked. One has to wonder if DS knew about this back then. They are just darn lucky criminal charges were not filed. No one involved, or who knew about the book cooking, could have predicted with certainty they wouldn't be charged. A fine of $18 million is a ton of money, but far better than being in the slammer.

Comments by likely short sellers are a dime a dozen. No fine was imposed. No evidence the books were cooked. Accounting fraud is a serious crime that is prosecuted. No charges have been filed against Medicis or any official.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I did look at insider trading for the company. Not sure it indicates anything and I'm not very savvy on this. However, I did note recent activity:

http://www.insider-monitor.com/trading/cik859368.html

2011-09-22 PM Option Exercise 21,000 24.99 524,790
2011-08-15 WM Sale 14,000 37.26 521,696
2011-07-06 <modsnip> Option Exercise 276,290 26.95 7,446,015

Perhaps other dates are of more interest though - like when the books were being cooked?

Way to go TIME!! The people around here are so SMART... it's great.

 

[MyBelle]

Do you think Anne or a member of her team has had a chance to look at the investor list for Medicis... anyone on their interesting or involved in this case? That would be another good reason to open the case if one of the officers was a shareholder. Coronado being what it is...a playground for the wealthy... a small enclave... the LE there.. in my opinion could have a cozy relationship. They would certainly be very protective of their "bosses" and being so small they know each other well. This case was so odd it needed to be investigated thorougly as a possible murder and it obviously was not.

You are implying a law enforcement officer who may be a shareholder should be investigated for corruption. If there was only one guy on this case, that might be a valid suggestion. However, there were FOUR law enforcement agencies involved in the investigation and no evidence I've seen suggests that they are all corrupt.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I did look at insider trading for the company. Not sure it indicates anything and I'm not very savvy on this. However, I did note recent activity:

http://www.insider-monitor.com/trading/cik859368.html

2011-09-22 Option Exercise 21,000 24.99 524,790
2011-08-15 Sale 14,000 37.26 521,696
2011-07-06 <modsnip> Option Exercise 276,290 26.95 7,446,015

Perhaps other dates are of more interest though - like when the books were being cooked?

Those are insiders and their trading is monitored by the SEC, who would also investigate and seek criminal prosecutions for things such as cooked books. In case you don't know, the SEC is part of the Department of Justice.

JMO

 

[justice be served]

Comments by likely short sellers are a dime a dozen. No fine was imposed. No evidence the books were cooked. Accounting fraud is a serious crime that is prosecuted. No charges have been filed against Medicis or any official.

BBM
http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-busin...e-alleging-ceo-shacknai-cooked-the-books/9829

Time did not make up the words "cooked the books". Here is the MSM article which states those words. Yes, Medicis did not admit wrongdoing but the proof is in the payout of $18M.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Comments by likely short sellers are a dime a dozen. No fine was imposed. No evidence the books were cooked. Accounting fraud is a serious crime that is prosecuted. No charges have been filed against Medicis or any official.

No evidence? I saw a diagram! Why would they settle this class action suit then for 18 million if they didn't do anything wrong. The books were cooked to NOT SHOW product being returned... to the tune of $10 Million at one point between 2003-2008.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

So this shows JS optioned nearly $7.5 million in shares a week before the deaths.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM You are so right Time. And the fact is that Jonah is NOT family to Rebecca.Yet all courtesies have been extended to him and not Rebecca's kin.

Rebecca's family has every right to see the files - regardless of the fact that they ruled it a suicide. LE has the right to not make the files public because of a suicide - but their right does not extend to withholding the files from the family. This is just beyond belief!
:banghead:

I'm curious where you get the idea anybody has a "right" to see LE investigative files?

First, the family claimed they wanted a new investigation yet they haven't bothered to officially ask for it. Now, they say they want the files of the investigators they have accused of being sloppy, unproffessional and possibly corrupt.

In reality, the only way anyone else can see investigative files is by court order. Why hasn't their attorney filed a request?

JMO

 

[time]

No evidence? I saw a diagram! Why would they settle this class action suit then for 18 million if they didn't do anything wrong. The books were cooked to NOT SHOW product being returned... to the tune of $10 Million at one point between 2003-2008.

I think this is a key time period. I do not think Medicis investors or someone at Medicis had anything to do with the murder (at least at this point). Rather, this was going on while Dina and Jonah were married. I believe the time period we know about for the domestic abuse is also between 2006-2009. I am not directly connecting these two incidents as I believe there is a lot we don't know about what went on between those two. However, everything we know so far says they had a volatile relationship and the two were spying on each other even after they were separated.

Questions I have:

What secrets were they keeping? Did Rebecca learn of any of them or about anything else? Was Dina jealous of Rebecca? Why would a woman (or a man) go along with some public announcement that domestic abuse in her marriage was just a rough patch if her claims were true, that Jonah let the dog bite her and he would destroy her, etc.? Were Jonah's claims that Dina was abusive true? Did Jonah and Dina still carry on a dysfunctional relationship with each other after separating? Why was Rebecca supposedly so suspect by Dina when that stuff was going on in her house with her own child present? Why did Jonah investigate ex partners boyfriends?

Something in this whole investigating stuff makes me think they were having battles over Max for some reason. I think Max's death is simply the result of an unfortunate accident and all known responses of Rebecca were normal - she cared about Max and was probably very sad (she may have mistakenly had hope he was going to get better since we don't know what she was told), but she didn't think it was her fault.

 

[MyBelle]

No evidence? I saw a diagram! Why would they settle this class action suit then for 18 million if they didn't do anything wrong. The books were cooked to NOT SHOW product being returned... to the tune of $10 Million at one point between 2003-2008.

It was a civil action, not a criminal action. Companies do settlements all the time to avoid further expense. It was an accounting dispute involving a class action filed against the accounting firm as well. The amount is a pittance, Medicis' insurance company will pay their portion and they didn't admit to any wrongdoing.

JMO

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Can anyone fill us in on what that really means interms of exercising stock options. I know a company can give employees stocks as part of compensation so this must be what Shacknai paid himself the $7 million for this year. Last year he sold over $8 million in stock in his company. In 2009 he sold $6 Million but optioned another $2 million. I am assuming he would be the majority stock holder in his company.