The case for murder

[time]

no one ...there is nothing "awful" about it. It's a very difficult thing to transition to this other lifestyle of being a live in GF to JS, after all, it makes you completely vulnerable.

but, she did have the 2009 arrest over $1000.00 in jewelry, this is by no means petty theft... this is not the innocent angel, this is a 30 year old woman who did this.

so there is something here in her pathology that suggests something is amiss.

personally I now feel that JS or AS or some combo of the two did this.

I cannot follow any one theory based on what you are claiming. My point in responding to your post is that Dina is the one who might see it all, and see Rebecca, this way. She and Nina would also be the ones to see Rebecca as a live-in. I would personally be offended by that characterization. I think photos and what h as been stated in many reports clearly show that Rebecca and Jonah were partners, she was not just his live-in girlfriend.

BBM - I'm sorry, but I do not see much in her 'pathology' to claim anything was amiss nor do I see any motive for Jonah to hurt her. I certainly can't connect what you are saying to any motive for Jonah. For Dina, yes, because I beleive Dina already had it out for Rebecca and Max's accident set her off. And, I think Dina has some tendencies toward violence and manipulation that are of far more concern pathologically than anything we know about Rebecca.

 

[Inparadise]

Yeah, I agree, but then we know Dina was trying to make a big deal out of a lot of things like jiujitsu, healthy eating, and so on. That shows me she was and still is either consumed with jealousy or trying desperately to convince people something was suspicious about Rebecca. It all falls flat... she won't even name the family friend in the jiujitsu thing. too bad for her that in the process of all this it totally degrades any credibility she might have had. And, some of it veers too far away from anything having to do with Max's death... Dina only succeeds at making herself look more guilty, but doesn't even seem to realize that.

Dina sees herself as a "VICTIM" in all of this, therefore, she feels that she is entitled to behave as she has, IMO. It would appear that Hallier at least is onto her.........

 

[time]

Big deal or not depends on the person and/or the situation. It may not be a big deal to your and me. But it surely was a big deal to DS. It might not be a big deal to JS when everything was good. But it might become a bigger deal when Dr Peterson said Max was dying because of suffocation suffered inside his own house.

We are talking about RZ's death and possible homicide motive. If this deal was big enough to influence someone's perception of RZ's character, to impact someone's assessment of Dr Peterson's claim, it will be relevant to a potential motive discussion.

BBM, exactly, you made my point, but everything about Rebecca was already a big deal to Dina including the name thing. This is obvious in the Boy Interrupted article and her motive is evident in the interviews involving Melinek's report. Obviously, Dina didn't think her own hiding of her name was relevant enough to take into consideration. I agree, this all goes to motive and points directly at Dina.

To consider it also points towards Jonah, well possible. But as I have said many times, it does not make sense Jonah would do it this way and bring bad PR upon himself. I believe Jonah does have and alibi and that the motive you are talking about would come from rage at the crime scene also.

 

[time]

Dina sees herself as a "VICTIM" in all of this, therefore, she feels that she is entitled to behave as she has, IMO. It would appear that Hallier at least is onto her.........

Yes, of course, she was a victim of her parents, then a victim of Jonah, and now a victim of Max's death. Does that about cover her whole life?

 

[minazoe]

you don't think there is something amiss? really?

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...lepa-mug-shot-san-diego-bizarre-hanging-death

I don't know that many chicks who would dare dump a grand worth of jewels in a shopping bag. I find it very curious. I don't know what the nexus is. I don't know if this means she had other shortcomings. I am not judging her....but to me it indicates something amiss...something about her.

could it have led to her murder? did she lie about the death of Max? Did Jonah let Adam have at her? did something consensual occur between Adam and Becky that soured?

is Adam a perv? whose underwear were in the trash? the whole thing has this aura of that is either a red herring or has something to do with it.

 

[time]

minazoe... no, I don't agree with you on a lot of what you have said. I see the shoplifting as petty theft and believe it was a misdemeanor. People shoplift for so many different reasons that I do not think much can be said about Rebecca for doing it this once. We also don't know much about that one incident in fact. There is nothing else in her background that leads to assuming she had a seriously flawed character.

But here's the point - you keep bring up the shoplifting as something suspicious about Rebecca's character, but I haven't seen anything connecting the shoplifting to "The Case for Murder" which is the title of this thread.

So what IS your point about the shoplifting as related to this thread, do tell. :banghead:

 

[minazoe]

I am saying that there may be something about RZ's character that is part of the bigger picture. If she was murdered, there are more than several suspects, and maybe more than one reason for why it happened.

 

[time]

I am saying that there may be something about RZ's character that is part of the bigger picture. If she was murdered, there are more than several suspects, and maybe more than one reason for why it happened.

Here is what I would consider a well written and researched article (actually the chapter of a book) on shoplifting. I don't think any real conclusions about Rebecca can be drawn because of that one incident.

An Analysis of Motivations for Shoplifting

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:SiaRRmV9YhcJ:cooley.libarts.wsu.edu/soc3611/Documents/The%2520Five-Finger%2520Discount.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESifii6ASnrMawYQp5SpAc6g-en3KPxzh-U64hf2gimI7eJMHNwBJGU6-v9a7o7uYH9q8Q0AH1m543wNzI5NUpMxKDvd3hyFT-L-AOmTHYrKdnBKDVlTjxr-W7h0rWXxStYGpDJp&sig=AHIEtbQdfh-apezKvibJhsl3m0KTIVmfkQ


I do think finding that out about Rebecca was fodder for Dina's demonizing of her and may have helped Dina justify the murder of Rebecca and in promoting that Rebecca did something to Max to herself and to others.

 

[minazoe]

i agree that it is fodder for Dina, however it was not a sweater or lipstick or a girlfriends medication...it was a thousand dollars in jewelry.

those are some big ticket balls if you ask me. imagine walking into Louis Vuitton and stealing a thousand dollar handbag, do you think that is a nothing little shoplift?

I don't.

 

[Inparadise]

i agree that it is fodder for Dina, however it was not a sweater or lipstick or a girlfriends medication...it was a thousand dollars in jewelry.

those are some big ticket balls if you ask me. imagine walking into Louis Vuitton and stealing a thousand dollar handbag, do you think that is a nothing little shoplift?

I don't.

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill IMO. While I do not condone shoplifting, I have known many who have done it in the past. In fact, the mother of my step-daughter's best friend, who is married to a wealthy man and they live in Paradise Valley, has several convictions of shoplifting, and all for very big-ticket items.......Rebecca did it once. That does not make her a horrible person, nor a criminal.

 

[minazoe]

it's stealing. so she is NOT the perfect well adjusted professional woman who is an angel and a saint beyond reproach as we are led to believe, she shoplifts in her life before JS. maybe in her life after. it was only a few years ago, right before she hooked up with JS.

does it mean she's a bad person? probably not...but she steals...makes mistakes...etc.

 

[KarenM]

To me the shoplifting's significance is not in the crime itself but in the impact it had on someone's perception of Dr Peterson's credibility in claiming Max was suffocated. If DS and JS hand anything to do with RZ's murder. It certainly was not about a petty crime RZ'S committed years ago but about Max's death.

Shoplifting is essentially stealing out of covet of material things that do not belong to the offender. The offender risks being caught for material things they desire. Most shoplifters are not violent and would never commit a crime such as murder. Now in the situation JS and DS faced on that tragic day, you have a doctor claiming your son was dying because there's physical evidence he was suffocated before a fall. And the only adult with him at the time of the incidence was RZ. You have to ask yourself if this was possible . What would be the motive? Would there be any benefit to RZ if Max was dead. Under this light, a past crime showing one's covet for material things would not be a favorable trait. As some implied that RZ might consider Max an obstacle to her marriage to JS. As rich as JS is, any younger woman who dates him may be suspected as a gold digger by some, not mention someone with a crime that showed a covet for material things. I personally don't think there's a connection between RZ's shoplifting and Max's death. However, we are talking about RZ's death not Max's. The key here is not the connection between the shoplifting and Max's death. But the possibility that RZ's shoplifting might have given Dr Peterson's claim more credibility. It may have shed light on some's speculation on RZ's motive in harming Max. Hence it may justify someone's revenge against RZ.

 

[minazoe]

To me the shoplifting's significance is not in the crime itself but in the impact it had on Dr Peterson's credibility in claiming Max's was suffocated. If DS and JS hand anything to do with RZ's murder. It certainly was not about a petty crime RZ'S committed years ago but about Max's death.

Shoplifting is essentially stealing out of covet of material things that do not belong to the offender. The offender risks being caught for material things they desire. Most shoplifters are not violent and would never commit a crime such as murder. Now in the situation JS and DS faced on that tragic day, you have a doctor claiming your son was dying because there's physical evidence he was suffocated before a fall. And the only adult with him at the time of the incidence was RZ. You have to ask yourself if this was possible . What would be the motive? Would there be any benefit to RZ if Max was dead. Under this light, a past crime showing one's covet for material things would not be a favorable trait. As some implied that RZ might consider Max an obstacle to her marriage to JS. As rich as JS is, any younger woman who dates her night be suspected as a gold digger by some, not mention someone with a crime that showed a covet for material things. I personally don't think there's a connection between RZ's shoplifting and Max's death. However, we are talking about RZ's death not Max's. The key here is not the connection between the shoplifting and Max's death. But the possibility that RZ's shoplifting might have given Dr Peterson's claim more credibility. It may have shed light on some's speculation on RZ's motive in harming Max. Hence it may justify someone's revenge against Max.

so well put! that's just what I was trying to say!!!!!!! :rocker:

 

[Nom de plume]

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill IMO. While I do not condone shoplifting, I have known many who have done it in the past. In fact, the mother of my step-daughter's best friend, who is married to a wealthy man and they live in Paradise Valley, has several convictions of shoplifting, and all for very big-ticket items.......Rebecca did it once. That does not make her a horrible person, nor a criminal.

Well....technically it DOES make her a criminal IP.

I'm kind of mixed on this one. It was just ONE time, or ONE time that she was CAUGHT. Doesn't mean she ever did it before or after that one time, doesn't mean she didn't.

$1000 in jewelry is a pretty big ticket item(s) to be stealing. It, to me, is a lot bigger deal than a $5 lipstick. But stealing is stealing no matter the dollar amount.

I don't think because of this one incident that RZ was a "bad" person. It may have been a bad time in her life when she did it though. Without knowing how she felt about it (was she truely remorseful or just mad she got caught?) I can't really make any judgements one way or the other.

Just my :twocents:

 

[minazoe]

so okay, so far I see someone who is troubled on some level, someone who wears a ring on her engagement finger...when there is no engagement, a possibly secret alliance with her ex...a possible suffocation...people involved in family drama...the sister shuttled away,

jonah having poor judgement, angry exes, possible protective siblings.

some foundation for disquiet.

did adam talk to anyone that night? I feel like someone is going to talk.

just a feeling.

 

[time]

Ok, I'd like to ask again if the shoplifting really is pertinent to this thread? :waitasec:

 

[minazoe]

it goes to possible reasons for a motive...her unsuitability and excuse to possibly jump to conclusions and murder her.

 

[time]

To me the shoplifting's significance is not in the crime itself but in the impact it had on someone's perception of Dr Peterson's credibility in claiming Max was suffocated. If DS and JS hand anything to do with RZ's murder. It certainly was not about a petty crime RZ'S committed years ago but about Max's death.

Shoplifting is essentially stealing out of covet of material things that do not belong to the offender. The offender risks being caught for material things they desire. Most shoplifters are not violent and would never commit a crime such as murder. Now in the situation JS and DS faced on that tragic day, you have a doctor claiming your son was dying because there's physical evidence he was suffocated before a fall. And the only adult with him at the time of the incidence was RZ. You have to ask yourself if this was possible . What would be the motive? Would there be any benefit to RZ if Max was dead. Under this light, a past crime showing one's covet for material things would not be a favorable trait. As some implied that RZ might consider Max an obstacle to her marriage to JS. As rich as JS is, any younger woman who dates him may be suspected as a gold digger by some, not mention someone with a crime that showed a covet for material things. I personally don't think there's a connection between RZ's shoplifting and Max's death. However, we are talking about RZ's death not Max's. The key here is not the connection between the shoplifting and Max's death. But the possibility that RZ's shoplifting might have given Dr Peterson's claim more credibility. It may have shed light on some's speculation on RZ's motive in harming Max. Hence it may justify someone's revenge against RZ.

This still seems a bit convoluted to me. I still can't see much of a connection being made in that 1 1/2 days to the shoplifting and to any claim Max was suffocated unless someone is horribly uninformed about shoplifters.

Although, it appears you are implying that Rebecca had a motive to harm Max because of the shoplifting charge as related to perceived gold digging tendencies. It also appears that your claim is that because of the shoplifting and Rebecca's status in life, that someone thought Rebecca could be seen as a gold digger and therefore would murder Max in order to get it all and be rid of Dina and Max's claim over anything. What about Kimberly and the other kids then? What about the fact that Dina already had it out for Rebecca anyway?

If anything, this shoplifting related to Rebecca's murder is just a small drop in the bucket as to what has gone on, perceived or otherwise.

 

[time]

it goes to possible reasons for a motive...her unsuitability and excuse to possibly jump to conclusions and murder her.

That's exactly why I don't think it is all that important to talk about much more. The shoplifting was the biggest thing Dina could come up with to attack Rebecca's character. Next is the name thing. Next is the jiujitsu thing - and as you can see we are getting further away with each reason from anything that can be validated. Next is the healthy food thing - which now veers on looney reasons that Dina brought up about Rebecca given she also thought having a candy drawer made her a wonderful parent!! You put all this together with the fact that on the other side there were far more serious things going on in Max's young life, like domestic abuse and violence and it's a crazy convoluted picture.

I think this murder occurred mostly because someone was already worked up about everything and overly controlling. Because someone even tried to control visitation and attending normal events. Because someone was already worked up before the first day was even over about Max's accident and whose sister interrogated Rebecca after she picked her up at the airport. And, the doctor claiming the suffocation. BINGO - it's a perfect recipe for someone with violent and controlling tendencies who just lost their only child, with no hope of having another child let alone an heir to the fortune, to lash out.

 

[minazoe]

yes, Dina likes to use the shoplifting etc...she wants to blame or prove...she wants to show Jonah's poor judgement killed her child.

she could be right.

she could be....maybe Rebecca is just unfortunate and she wasn't remiss in her care of Max....maybe she was remiss. Maybe she lied about the accident. Maybe Jonah knows more than anyone what Rebecca's real story is...maybe he has come to a conclusion regarding her....he suspects her. he doesn't care that she is dead....he doesn't come near...he drops her like a bad habit.


but the ...the makes me crazy, the knots, the t-shirt...the ...

it's the that is driving me crazy...