The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[Brendon]

From the previous thread which I can't quote directly


-What on Earth are you referring to when you reference me believing they were up for 40 hours? And exactly what does that have to do with anything I said? If you are perhaps attempting to excuse the nonsensical lies John and Patsy spewed in the police interviews many posters have quoted I suggest you look up those transcripts and check the dates.

(snipped for focus)

My apologies. I thought you believed the Ramseys did it somehow.

What with all the thorough battery cleaning, ransom note writing and dictating, strangling their daughter, etc, there would be too little time and too much adrenalin pumping around to get any sleep that night. Which follows that from about 7.00am one day, to about 7.00pm the next day, that is a whopping 36 hours of absolute horror. I would have thought someone would have noticed the effects of exhaustion in both John and Patsy (inability to focus, nodding off, looking drunk or drugged, incoherent), at one point at least.

The absence of any record of this not a minor issue. As traumatized as these people were, they acted like they had at least some sleep in the previous 40 hours - in front of various witnesses.

 

[ElleElle]

Tonight - on TLC - JonBenet: An American Murder Mystery.

 

[CherCher]

My guess about what happened? From the limited information:

Someone they know. Someone who secretly had a strong dislike for John and Patsy personally.
The ransom note. It's dripping with barely concealed contempt for the both of them.

Someone who might have had got hold of a key. Someone who knew the house.
Explains how they they got about, and got out. And how they were aware they were safe to write the ransom note.

Someone with a vivid imagination. And someone who has good writing skill, but loses it under stress. I know a few people that make errors when angry or upset. Perhaps the note was written to hide their identity after the child was unintentionally killed when they tried to subdue her to keep her quiet. Now the plans to kidnap have gone awry.
How I read the ransom note. Claiming the spelling errors were on purpose is a convoluted way of looking at it. But calling themselves a "foreign faction" does sound like a diversion.

They were amateurs who thought they had everything planned, but callous disconnected types. And like most of these unsolved cases they had a truck load of dumb luck to get away with it.
They even cleaned the batteries in the torch and no fingerprints. Yes, on balance I think it was the murder weapon. They even used the Ramseys' stationary to write the ransom note. That is clever and planned. But the note was not what they initially intended to write, because now JonBenet was dead. So now the ransom note was a bluff to buy time and misdirect. (PS Now even if you think the Ramseys did it, there is a large element of dumb luck involved in them getting away with it - if you think they did it.)

They had stayed at the house. Probably overnight. They knew the feel of the place in the night to feel confident enough to stay and write the ransom note and then sneak out through some door.

Wow that's some theory. The first and only time in tjhe history of kidnappings that the victim wasn't kidnapped. And the longest ransom note ever that contained exact letter specimens to Patsy Ramsey. And all of the other staging. Why the bleep would a Ramsey enemy go through all of that trouble? Yes, someone has a vivid imagination.

 

[singularity]

My guess about what happened? From the limited information:

Someone they know. Someone who secretly had a strong dislike for John and Patsy personally.
The ransom note. It's dripping with barely concealed contempt for the both of them.

Someone who might have had got hold of a key. Someone who knew the house.
Explains how they they got about, and got out. And how they were aware they were safe to write the ransom note.

Someone with a vivid imagination. And someone who has good writing skill, but loses it under stress. I know a few people that make errors when angry or upset. Perhaps the note was written to hide their identity after the child was unintentionally killed when they tried to subdue her to keep her quiet. Now the plans to kidnap have gone awry.
How I read the ransom note. Claiming the spelling errors were on purpose is a convoluted way of looking at it. But calling themselves a "foreign faction" does sound like a diversion.

They were amateurs who thought they had everything planned, but callous disconnected types. And like most of these unsolved cases they had a truck load of dumb luck to get away with it.
They even cleaned the batteries in the torch and no fingerprints. Yes, on balance I think it was the murder weapon. They even used the Ramseys' stationary to write the ransom note. That is clever and planned. But the note was not what they initially intended to write, because now JonBenet was dead. So now the ransom note was a bluff to buy time and misdirect. (PS Now even if you think the Ramseys did it, there is a large element of dumb luck involved in them getting away with it - if you think they did it.)

They had stayed at the house. Probably overnight. They knew the feel of the place in the night to feel confident enough to stay and write the ransom note and then sneak out through some door.

The ransom note is dripping with contempt for John. Patsy isn't even an afterthought in the note......likely because there's a 99.9% chance she wrote it.

If you genuinely believe in IDI, can you please explain the personal nature of the crime and the personal nature of its aftermath?

 

[ElleElle]

Reading and analyzing the RN for the umpteenth time. I am paying particular attention to the "A"s.

All the "A"s are the same except for the "A" in "Law" re: Law Enforcement. You would think that someone's handwriting would stay consistent ...

 

[ThinkHard]

(snipped for focus)

My apologies. I thought you believed the Ramseys did it somehow.

What with all the thorough battery cleaning, ransom note writing and dictating, strangling their daughter, etc, there would be too little time and too much adrenalin pumping around to get any sleep that night. Which follows that from about 7.00am one day, to about 7.00pm the next day, that is a whopping 36 hours of absolute horror. I would have thought someone would have noticed the effects of exhaustion in both John and Patsy (inability to focus, nodding off, looking drunk or drugged, incoherent), at one point at least.

The absence of any record of this not a minor issue. As traumatized as these people were, they acted like they had at least some sleep in the previous 40 hours - in front of various witnesses.

I can't really understand why you think this point is such a big deal. Like you stated above people in stressful situations are often running on adrenaline. So they can be up do days sometimes without sleeping. However there demeanor was or wasn't that day, which we actually don't know because it hasn't really been stated one way or the other, I think it tells us absolutely nothing!

If they weren't acting tired, what they were dealing with explains that no matter what the facts are, if the acted wide awake again what they were going through easily would explain that.

I don't think whether the parents acted tired or didn't act tired would give us any indication on the amount of sleep they may or may not have had, again given the extremely dramatic situation they found themselves in.

So respectfully, even if we did know this info....I don't see it as being a clue to anything, one way or another.

 

[singularity]

I am bringing this over from the first thread:

This is BR's bathroom:

There are 2 soda cans (coca cola?) in the sink:

Who did BR have in his room? JBR is said to have sometimes gone over to BR's room, after waking up with a wet accident and changing her outfit. She would lay down in the second twin bed in BR's room. Did she go over to BR and had a soda with him? Who got the soda, both? BR? JBR? Did they decide to go back into the kitchen after having some soda? Why then making a glass of tea, after having a soda? It makes no sense to me. Were they just left from the previous day? But then BR could not have brushed his teeth for the night or the next morning.

Again, what's the story here? Any idea?

-Nin

Hold the phone....THIS was in the CBS doc? Damn me for going to the bathroom and not pausing it. Gonna have to watch it again.

For anyone here who has not watched it and cant access it on any channels, it is now on Amazon Prime but you do have to pay $6.99 to view it. I'm gonna have to watch it again even though IMO it left much to be desired. I don't like missing things like that. My main hope was a lot of never before seen pics of the crime scene and cant believe I missed one.

 

[TTF14]

So you think some foreign faction planned to kidnap JBR, but waited till they got in the house and only after they killed her to write the ransoms note?

How does that make sense? If they had gotten into the house while the Ramsey's were still at the Whites.....giving them time to write the note, then Jon benet wouldn't be dead yet.....so they still leave the same note even though the foreign faction already knows she's dead?

If they planned to kidnap her, wouldn't you think getting in the house, grabbing her, dropping the note and getting out ASAP would be the most logical plan.

So how then is there so much time btw the head injury and the garrote? How and when does the pineapple get in her stomach? Who changes her clothes?

If you did just try to kidnap someone, I'd doubt you'd wait till you had them to write the random note, I'd think you'd have that all ready. But we know the note was written inside the home. I can't really imagine the perp accidental killing her, hiding her body, then going upstairs to spend 45 minutes on a ransom note before getting out of dodge. That just seems highly impractical.

Given BR's history, his apparent apathy in regards to this case both back then and now...the fact no other ran some note has ever been close to as long, nor in a ransom situation have bodies EVER been left behind......the most likely deduction is that BR did it, and his parents through shame and guilt put all their efforts to protecting their one remaining child.....as it would have been Patsy's only was for redeeming herself for failing both JBR and BR up to that point.

Couldn't agree more. The plan was never for LE to search the entire house. The Ramseys thought they'd believe that she was actually kidnapped and not on that property anymore, leave the house at some point without searching it, and they'd be able to dispose of her body in a way that she'd never be found (like Madeline McCann.....not saying the McCann's are guilty, but she's never been found).

The grand jury, privy to information we never have been indicted them after finding they "did ... render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death." The documents provide no further details on who that "person" was.

As another websleuther pointed out yesterday, they certainly were not indicted because the grand jury found that they rendered assistance to an unknown intruder who murdered their daughter because why in the world would they want an unknown intruder to not face punishment for murder? There's only one reason for them to offer assistance to the murderer, and that's because they care deeply about that person. Logic says that person would most likely be a family member.

 

[RL2]

(snipped for focus)

My apologies. I thought you believed the Ramseys did it somehow.

What with all the thorough battery cleaning, ransom note writing and dictating, strangling their daughter, etc, there would be too little time and too much adrenalin pumping around to get any sleep that night. Which follows that from about 7.00am one day, to about 7.00pm the next day, that is a whopping 36 hours of absolute horror. I would have thought someone would have noticed the effects of exhaustion in both John and Patsy (inability to focus, nodding off, looking drunk or drugged, incoherent), at one point at least.

The absence of any record of this not a minor issue. As traumatized as these people were, they acted like they had at least some sleep in the previous 40 hours - in front of various witnesses.

I think that John was asleep like normal. He would have been "well rested"... Patsy never went to sleep. And, exhaustive signs would have been masked by concern, panic, etc over their daughter being "kidnapped"

 

[TTF14]

I can't really understand why you think this point is such a big deal. Like you stated above people in stressful situations are often running on adrenaline. So they can be up do days sometimes without sleeping. However there demeanor was or wasn't that day, which we actually don't know because it hasn't really been stated one way or the other, I think it tells us absolutely nothing!

If they weren't acting tired, what they were dealing with explains that no matter what the facts are, if the acted wide awake again what they were going through easily would explain that.

I don't think whether the parents acted tired or didn't act tired would give us any indication on the amount of sleep they may or may not have had, again given the extremely dramatic situation they found themselves in.

So respectfully, even if we did know this info....I don't see it as being a clue to anything, one way or another.

Exactly. It's a very odd point to argue. Even if I had gotten 12 hours of sleep, if I woke up to my daughter being murdered, I'd be immediately emotionally exhausted.....it would be indistinguishable from me being up all night, I'm quite sure!

Has anyone ever reported that the Ramseys were wide awake and appeared well rested?? I doubt it.

 

[TTF14]

Reading and analyzing the RN for the umpteenth time. I am paying particular attention to the "A"s.

All the "A"s are the same except for the "A" in "Law" re: Law Enforcement. You would think that someone's handwriting would stay consistent ...

View attachment 101810

The Ts are very inconsistent throughout, too.

 

[ThinkHard]

The Ts are very inconsistent throughout, too.

Interesting you point this out, I had noticed that as well, some are straight but some have that hook thing.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Episode 37: The Case of JonBenét Ramsey: Examining the 911 Call and Ransom Note
[...]
Jim Clemente and Laura Richards take co-host Lisa Zambetti and our listeners on a deep dive into their re-investigation of the JonBenét case. They discuss the 911 call, the ransom letter and behind the scenes of "The Case of JonBenét Ramsey." #HerNameWasJonBenét
[...]
https://art19.com/shows/real-crime-profile/episodes/ac1bfbdc-e483-4b89-98d2-5c85b9777a0e




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nona's mum]

I finally got to see it (thanks YouTube!). Something I found surprising was how messy the house was in the crime scene videos! Is that a result of police work or would the video have been taken before that? I was just taken aback by the "perfect" Ramsey's not so perfect house!

 

[human]

Is it true that the pineapple in her stomach was green? I always pictured it as canned.

If you have ever tried to cut up a fresh pineapple, it is a nightmare.

Was there cut up pineapple in the frig as a snack?

 

[RL2]

I finally got to see it (thanks YouTube!). Something I found surprising was how messy the house was in the crime scene videos! Is that a result of police work or would the video have been taken before that? I was just taken aback by the "perfect" Ramsey's not so perfect house!

I know.. It bordered on hoarding! I remember reading LPH's account, and I think she had not been at the house doing house work in a week, maybe?

 

[nona's mum]

Is it true that the pineapple in her stomach was green? I always pictured it as canned.

If you have ever tried to cut up a fresh pineapple, it is a nightmare.

Was there cut up pineapple in the frig as a snack?

i just assumed it had started to turn green because it was degenerating?! Maybe the green was something else and they couldn't distinguish what it was?

 

[TTF14]

Is it true that the pineapple in her stomach was green? I always pictured it as canned.

If you have ever tried to cut up a fresh pineapple, it is a nightmare.

Was there cut up pineapple in the frig as a snack?

Didn't Patsy say in an interview that when they had pineapple, they typically had canned pineapple? I don't think this was fresh cut pineapple. We'd have heard about pineapple rinds or a knife or something.

 

[reintarnation]

Patsy says she didn't dish out that pineapple and the spoon isn't right. Also I remember hearing that the pineapple in her stomach was partially green in JBR's stomach. Green is usually on the outside. Patsy was a detail person and a perfectionist. If she cut that pineapple in guessing she would have been carefully to cut off the outside....so between perhaps sloppy knife skills with the pineapple and the too large spoon....it makes me think this was a kid prepared snack.

PR has stated that the pineapple was purchased pre-cut from the grocery store, per their normal. Forensics have matched the pineapple that was leftover in the bowl to the package of pre-cut pineapple that was still in the refrigerator.

 

[andreww]

Didn't Patsy say in an interview that when they had pineapple, they typically had canned pineapple? I don't think this was fresh cut pineapple. We'd have heard about pineapple rinds or a knife or something.

I believe Patsy said it was fresh, and that she bought it pre cut in the produce department.