The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[fedfan4life]

I agree. It's playing out in a frenzy of how Burke maliciously murdered his sister, the same awful story was applied to Lindy Chamberlain's son, Aidan, after her daughter, Azaria was taken by a dingo. Yes, she was taken by a dingo, fact.

If you would care to read the many, many posts on the subject, you will note that the majority of posters here are expressing empathy for Burke, as this is a tragedy even in the case of him being primarily involved in her death. So, no, there has been little or no maliciousness.

And, by the way, there are no dingos in Boulder, CO. So, that comparison has no bearing on what happened here. Look at the evidence, not what did or did not happen elsewhere. And, please, leave your preconcieved notions at the door.

 

[mauidreemn]

Oh, that is pure foolishness. Tricia and the moderators go out of their way to accommodate folks such as yourself who come on here and state your unfounded opinions. Shoddy evidence, my big fat butt.

Okey dokey. So "folks such as yourself" means we like to discuss the case and we don't prescribe to one line of thinking???

As for posters afraid to post on this sight, it is a fact. My msgs and email prove that. But not a single person can deny that Tricia and Websleuths stated a theory and stick to it at all costs. It is her website and she is allowed to do as she pleases.

And I love Websleuths and all it does. Cheers!

 

[carolinea]

I didn't say they were "direct evidence of sexual abuse." (In fact, I didn't mention sexual abuse at all.) I said they're classic signs of child abuse. Which they are. The predictive value of soiling issues for child abuse is about 50%, IIRC.

JBR did display direct evidence of sexual abuse, however. A panel of experts determined that the trauma to her genital area indicated at least one prior incident of abuse, as the injury was partially healed when she died. Combine that with bed-wetting and frequent vaginosis/yeast infections, and what does that indicate to you?

There's also this:

Dr. Bernhard felt there needed to be more follow-up with Burke in the discussion of sexual contact. The only show of emotion by Burke, other than the irritation with the questions about the actual crime, was when Dr. Bernhard began to ask about uncomfortable touching. Burke picked up a board game and put it on his head an action indicating anxiety or discomfort with these types of questions and that there was more that he was not telling her. Dr. Bernhard asked Burke if he had any secrets, and he said, “probably, if I did, I wouldn't tell you, because then it wouldn’t be a secret.

I hadn't heard about the older kids having bed-wetting issues all the way to age 10. Can you post a source for that?

 

[Magdalyn]

ALL of the Ramsey children, even the older kids, had Bedwetting issues at that age. It can be genetic.

As a child abuse and neglect investigator and case manager, toilet inf issues are NOT direct evidence of sexual abuse. If you believe that, then you pop a squat at every Target and Walmart and berate every parent that buys the larger size pull-ups.

Regarded the BBM (bolded by me)

If you would like to add yourself as an expert in a certain field or as an insider to a case, please send an email to [email protected]

If you do not wish to be identified as an expert in a certain area, we ask that you refrain from answering questions that are specifically directed to those that have been verified as specialist in their area and that you do not claim to be a professional in any area.

If a member posts with "expertise" please check to make sure they are on this list. If not, please do not take their post as professional information, but rather just as another opinion; much as you would with any member of the general posting membership.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...onal-or-Insider-Posters&p=7735200#post7735200

 

[fedfan4life]

Okey dokey. So "folks such as yourself" means we like to discuss the case and we don't prescribe to one line of thinking???

As for posters afraid to post on this sight, it is a fact. My msgs and email prove that. But not a single person can deny that Tricia and Websleuths stated a theory and stick to it at all costs. It is her website and she is allowed to do as she pleases.

And I love Websleuths and all it does. Cheers!

I repeat - foolishness. If a poster can defend his/her opinions with thoughtful and reasoned substantiation, then there is absolutely NOTHING to fear. On the other hand, if you expect to make unfounded assertions based upon preconceived notions, then you are going to be called-out. And that is as it should be.

 

[mauidreemn]

I repeat - foolishness. If a poster can defend his/her opinions with thoughtful and reasoned substantiation, then there is absolutely NOTHING to fear. On the other hand, if you expect to make unfounded assertions based upon preconceived notions, then you are going to be called-out. And that is as it should be.

And this is why this board falters. Who decides what are "unfounded assertions"?

 

[Bill W]

It seems like some people just can't wrap their collective head around a 9-year-old doing this, even if it was accidental. Maybe they are parents themselves and just can't imagine their little angel(s) doing something so horrific. One of the reasons this case fascinates so many people 20 years later is that it is so strange and RARE. Most kids wouldn't do this; your kids are good kids, don't worry. No need for an existential crisis. Pursuing any theory that excludes BR or saying "what if the other brother took a secret flight…", etc., it's your prerogative, but I don't think you can deny there is at least the possibility BR did this (unless he was tied to his bed all night) and some behavioral evidence to back up the possibility. Having said all that, I must admit that I personally have trouble believing that BR made the garrote. But who knows? Evidence not feelings, after all. And I think we also have to be open to the possibility that any sexual abuse could be separate from JB's death. Not every thread needs to come together on December 25/26.

 

[margarita25]

OPINION
WHY THE JONBENÉT RAMSEY MURDER CASE MATTERS
BY NEWSWEEK SPECIAL EDITION ON 9/22/16 AT 4:09 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/why-jonbenet-ramsey-murder-matters-501733

(Eta: sorry if already posted)


Eta: Other recent msm:

Former Gov. Owens: CBS Ramsey Series ‘Dispelled Theory Of An Outside Intruder'
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09/22/former-gov-bill-owens-commends-cbs-in-ramsey-murder-series/

Re: Discovery series, o/t:
JonBenét Ramsey series hits ratings gold for Discovery
http://nypost.com/2016/09/22/jonbenet-ramsey-series-hits-ratings-gold-for-discovery/

 

[Mrs G Norris]

All the CBS special said was Burke bopped JBR over the head with a blow that killed her, the staging with the garrote etc was done to make the killing look like a sex crime, by the PARENTS. I really think there's some confusion with the level of Burke's involvement, and that's why people can't imagine a 9 year old doing it.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

There's only one big problem with your explanation: his fingerprints were on the bowl.

OF COURSE he knew what it was.

He lived in the house, fingerprints on a bowl doesn't condemn Burke, it never did. His fingerprints were not found on any incriminating evidence, this is just another theory the docu had a stab at. Three members in the house, lets have a theory for each one, if they did it. JMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I repeat - foolishness. If a poster can defend his/her opinions with thoughtful and reasoned substantiation, then there is absolutely NOTHING to fear. On the other hand, if you expect to make unfounded assertions based upon preconceived notions, then you are going to be called-out. And that is as it should be.

I'm not scared, lol.

 

[ThinkHard]

Possible scenario....

What if Burke had lured JBR with the pineapples to play games with him in the basement. Then BR is doing inappropriate things to his sister and hurts her, causing her to bleed, hence the blood wiped off her leg. which causes her to scream and run away.... Then he chases her, striking her with the Mag lite, and she either falls face down, or was face down when it happened. Then this causes her to soil herself. I'm guessing this would be in the basement.

Burke can't wake her after poking her with nearby railroad tracks and doesn't know what to do, but perhaps her pants are down or off, and she is bleeding from btw her legs....he knows he can't get his parents with her looking like that, so he changes her underwear and drags her into the wine cellar trying to change the scenario before he gets his parents....perhaps hoping to tell them it was and accident and she fell.

Then he either gets interrupted, or gets caught being awake by mom. Or mom goes to check on JBR and BR and finds them not in their beds so goes down to find them.



Regarding the bound hands and the garrot....I feel like this could have different possibilities, perhaps part of some weird game Burke and jb were playing, perhaps during the assault with the flashlight, or as part of the cover up....not sure where my thoughts are on the garrot just yet.

 

[neesaki]

I haven't had the chance to finish watching. I have seen the Dr. Phil interviews though, and am in agreement with many that I find Burke's demeanor disturbing.

What I have seen so far, it looks like it's confirming what I already believed. Burke did it. Accident, or intentional, big question mark. Then a big screwed up cover up by guilt ridden parents. Regardless, I place all the blame on them. PR was completely obsessed with JB's pageant thing, how silly, how trivial, how self-centered. I think she forgot to be a real mother to both of her children.

Burt was the baby, then JB came along and it shattered his world. He was a child, all he knew was that he was no longer the apple of their eye. So to him he became invisible. Neglected because of his "beauty queen" sister, all because of his ex-beauty queen mother who so desperately wanted to vicariously live her life through her little girl. How tragic. :tears:

Burke was just a child, he needed as much love and attention as his sister, but didn't get it. I hope he's getting help, and my heart aches for him. JMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It seems like some people just can't wrap their collective head around a 9-year-old doing this, even if it was accidental. Maybe they are parents themselves and just can't imagine their little angel(s) doing something so horrific. One of the reasons this case fascinates so many people 20 years later is that it is so strange and RARE. Most kids wouldn't do this; your kids are good kids, don't worry. No need for an existential crisis. Pursuing any theory that excludes BR or saying "what if the other brother took a secret flight…", etc., it's your prerogative, but I don't think you can deny there is at least the possibility BR did this (unless he was tied to his bed all night) and some behavioral evidence to back up the possibility. Having said all that, I must admit that I personally have trouble believing that BR made the garrote. But who knows? Evidence not feelings, after all. And I think we also have to be open to the possibility that any sexual abuse could be separate from JB's death. Not every thread needs to come together on December 25/26.

James Bulger (2yrs) was abducted, tortured and murdered by 2 ten yr old boys in 1993. Of course, children are capable of violence. There isn't any evidence against Burke, it's just a theory people are grasping at because it's a mystery begging to be solved. Hasn't Burke suffered enough having such a dysfunctional family and his beloved sister murdered? Why can't there be disagreements?

 

[dizzychick]

OPINION
WHY THE JONBENÉT RAMSEY MURDER CASE MATTERS
BY NEWSWEEK SPECIAL EDITION ON 9/22/16 AT 4:09 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/why-jonbenet-ramsey-murder-matters-501733

(Eta: sorry if already posted)


Eta: Other recent msm:

Former Gov. Owens: CBS Ramsey Series ‘Dispelled Theory Of An Outside Intruder'
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09/22/former-gov-bill-owens-commends-cbs-in-ramsey-murder-series/

Re: Discovery series, o/t:
JonBenét Ramsey series hits ratings gold for Discovery
http://nypost.com/2016/09/22/jonbenet-ramsey-series-hits-ratings-gold-for-discovery/

I knew the lawsuits would be flying LOL But I remember learning via the Anthony case that once you become a public figure suing gets alot harder to do , so I saw the disclaimers on the show and I think he can sue away and waste more of JR's money, so bring it on, cant wait to read the pleadings

 

[BBB167893]

James Bulger (2yrs) was abducted, tortured and murdered by 2 ten yr old boys in 1993. Of course, children are capable of violence. There isn't any evidence against Burke, it's just a theory people are grasping at because it's a mystery begging to be solved. Hasn't Burke suffered enough having such a dysfunctional family and his beloved sister murdered? Why can't there be disagreements?

Well, I'll agree with what you say about Burke having suffered. I'm with you on that.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

If someone had a kidnapped child and the potential of an intruder in the house, are you going to let your remaining child stay upstairs in a bedroom alone? I think the answer is obvious.

 

[dizzychick]

Where are all the friends and neighbors of all of the Ramseys? Wonder what Burke's friends say now, the little friends he had before this incident? Has anyone heard of any articles about him ? Personally I think it's far more likely he did something either by accident or even on purpose, yes kids do kill, than a random ninja stranger took the kid and stopped to write that ransom letter. How did random ninja know what John's bonus was? Hummm they should have thought of that before writing that little tidit. I know what they were thinking, they thought it would direct cops to his job and all his employees that might have a hunch what his pay was and therefore take up many many man hours looking in the wrong direction. Panic I guess makes smart people do the bizarre...

 

[mauidreemn]

If someone had a kidnapped child and the potential of an intruder in the house, are you going to let your remaining child stay upstairs in a bedroom alone? I think the answer is obvious.

According to the ransom note, the intruders or kidnappers were long gone. So it's safe to say he was totally safe and secure in his room especially with all the folks downstairs

 

[Tricia]

Let me explain again.

On every other forum on Websleuths we only allow discussion of possible suspects that have been named by the police, or their names put out in the mainstream media as a suspect.

The only people who are legit suspects are the Ramseys. All of the intruder crap is just that. CBS proved that point.

The Ramsey forum is different. It's the case I know the best.

Websleuths will not be used by the Ramseys or their minions to spread the false story or an intruder.

I'm not suggesting anyone here who says they believe in the intruder is working for the Ramseys, not saying they are a troll. What I am saying is they have been influenced by the Ramsey lies and I will not allow their lies on Websleuths.

If you have actual proof of an intruder, proof that we cannot dismiss and it is powerful enough to ignore:
*The Ransom Note
*The Pineapple
*The Garrote made with Patsy's materials
*All the bizarre things the Ramsey's did that morning like calling all their friends over when the note said if they breathed a word they would kill JonBenet
*Sending Burke back to school without a worry about the Intruder killing him too
*John Ramsey recently stating that they had to protect Burke all during his childhood. Why? Not the Intruder. No, John never said a word about protecting Burke from the Intruder. John protected Burke from the media.
*The 911 call that proves the Ramsey's lied
*Burke admitting he went downstairs after his parents went to sleep
*The way Patsy spoke in the 911 call
*John Ramsey not doing one thing to "find" the intruder. O.J. would be proud.
PLUS about a million other things.

if your proof is powerful enough that it tops all of this and more then I would be happy to let you discuss an intruder.

I used to let people discuss the intruder until the posters continually stated fiction as fact. It was ridiculous and embarrassing for Websleuths.

The Ramsey case is a case where I have actually gotten to know some of the dedicated and decent people who have been almost destroyed by the Ramsey lies.

This is a privately owned forum. I make the rules. As we have stated before the rules on Websleuths are mostly in the grey area. What works on one forum wouldn't work on another.

We do our best to make sure wild accusations are not stated as fact. With over 12 million posts I'm sure we have missed a few but we still want to do our best to see fiction is not stated as fact in all our cases.

That includes the Ramseys. If you see a post that makes an accusation with no proof, or you see a post that is over the top in some way, please hit the alert button in the lower left-hand corner of the post. I need you to alert on these posts because it is impossible for us to keep track of all the posts. It's up to you to let us know when something is wrong.

There are plenty of real facts to discuss without making them up.

Thank you,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

PS. It is late and my eyes are spinning. I reserve the right to fix this post in the morning.