The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[chlban]

We'll have to disagree on that. Show me one other case where an intruder has spent hours in a home. You also have to come up with a viable point of entry, then explain why the Ramseys lied about so many things that morning. That spiderweb still runs across the window, so again the question is HOW DID HE GET IN?

You also have to come up with a suspect that can be gone from their own home and/or family for hours on Christmas. So much for it being someone they knew well and had a key. That suspect would be so easy to identify, just by checking alibi's. Which, BTW, is how the eliminated Santa so quickly. He was with his extended family having Christmas Dinner. Just like at least 95% of the population of Boulder, assuming they had not left town to visit family, also easily verified.

 

[mauidreemn]

And we all know that we can trust what people who kidnap little girls and leave ransom notes say so obviously he was totally safe and secure in his room. It does no good to get an A in logic and F in judgement - no no - life is not a computer to be programmed.

I agree. But he was on the second floor of a home that was surrounded by police, family and friends.

 

[Scandigirl]

I never believed BDI, because of Burke's young age at the time, but the Dr Phil interview and CBS show have convinced me- especially seeing Burke's responses both now and in his childhood interviews.
If BDI, how sad for all the Ramsey family. The expert panel seemed to conclude that it was probably a terrible accident, and that Burke only did the head bash, with his parents taking over after that. However, they did think that he likely prodded his sister afterwards with the pins from the train track, to see if he could get a response. The panel thought the marks on JB matched these, and concluded that only a child would do this, not an adult.
My thoughts are that this placed Burke in the basement with JB after the head bash, so they must have both moved from the kitchen where the pineapple and tea snacks were. So either the head bash must have happened in the kitchen and Burke somehow moved her, or it all happened in the basement. Assuming Burke would not have tries poking JB with the pins if either of his parents were there at that point. My thoughts are that the puncture wounds on JB look far deeper to me than if Burke had simply prodded her... They look driven into her skin with more intent to hurt her deliberately, maybe.
Linked to this in my mind is the photo of JB taken before her death, where she is standing in a doorway in a red and white dress, and a pair of very similar marks are visible on her lower leg. Could this mean that Burke (if it was him, and the theory is correct), could have been abusing her in the same way some time before her death? Just wondering about the difference between a genuine accident or deliberate intent.
The CBS panel didn't mention any possible earlier incidences occurring, or possible prior photo evidence etc. Perhaps they didn't think it wise to explore further whether there may have been more deliberate intent? Or maybe this aspect was in the 2 hours that were cut? Dr Warner Spitz indicated that he felt more strongly in favour of deliberate malice/intent, but Dr Henry Lee felt the opposite? I wonder what Kolar's true feelings are on this. I've no idea either way, or even if BDI for certain, although I believe now that it looks that way. Sorry for the length of post, just throwing some thoughts out there...

 

[johnjay]

I agree. But he was on the second floor of a home that was surrounded by police, family and friends.

According to the family he was on the second floor alone when only his parent were in the house downstairs and they had no idea who else might have been in the house. And this was a house with more than one way to get upstairs.

 

[mauidreemn]

It is very funny how the Ramsey will say that everybody had a key to that house, gardeners, contractors, maids, etc., etc., yet john can't call anybody that would have a key.

Here is another fact about the window that is odd. In all the police videos you will see that window wide open. On that morning John tells police that he looked for an entry point and found none. Police look around and that window is locked. It is not until his police interview that John reveals that when he went in the basement before cops arrived, he found the window open and he shut it without mentioning it to anybody.

From Steve Thomas book:
Page 20:"White went downstairs. The lights were on, and shadows danced in the big basement. A small broken window in a large room where a model raiload was laid out caught his attention, and on the floor beneath the window he found a piece of glass, which he placed on the ledge. He dropped to this hands and knees, searching for other pieces, and moved a suitcase in doing so."

 

[mauidreemn]

Quoting RL2's response to Geronimo: "Basic question: why write a ransom note if u know your daughter is dead within the house? Cant u just say to police, my daughter is missing..."

The Ramseys had a lot of luck early on in this investigation. The BPD took Patsy's word and 'bought' the RN (as I think most people would). Their initial investigative efforts were spent searching outside the home - canvassing the neighborhood, setting up a tapped phone line, making arrangements for the ransom money, interviewing PR and JR about anyone who might have a grudge against them, analyzing the RN, etc.

Let's not forget, too, that the RN and murder involved multiple motives and LE had to research each and every one (pedophile, terrorism, enemy of the family, JBR's pageant life, JR's business dealings, etc.). Even after JBR was found, it was hard to fathom that the parents could be involved in such a brutal crime, especially given their outward appearances.

So in the early stages of the investigation, the RN was only the only element of the crime that actually pointed outside the home, and boy was it a doozy!

The BPD did search inside the home as did Fleet White. And the BPD admits they did not question neighbors, even in the beginning.

 

[mauidreemn]

Really? You have an open window in the middle of winter in the kids train room and you don't get it fixed for for four months? If you broke a window in your house, would that not be a "fix me tomorrow" find of thing?

Also, I feel that if indeed it was broken for 4 months, there would be signs of rain running down the painted wall on the inside of the house.

If you have a big, cavernous house like the Ramsey's, this doesn't seem weird or ominous.

 

[SecretaryGal]

Fibres were found. Not the cord itself. Because it lends to the narrative that someone with a cord came into her bedroom. The cord was never positively sourced from the house. So....

So... what?


Why does this lend to the narrative that an intruder brought the cord in?!?!

Why couldn't that cord have been stored with bed linens or some other bedding in the house??

How do we know that the rest of the cord was not hidden and removed by Patsy's sister?

How do we even know if there was cord left over?

 

[dogperson]

I had always wondered why John didn't let the police assume an intruder broke the window but it seems others already knew it was broken, the housekeeper and her husband I think? So that would have come out. I'm glad some of the posters cleared this up because I thought maybe only John and Patsy knew it.

 

[johnjay]

So... what?


Why does this lend to the narrative that an intruder brought the cord in?!?!

Why couldn't that cord have been stored with bed linens or some other bedding in the house??

How do we know that the rest of the cord was not hidden and removed by Patsy's sister?

How do we even know if there was cord left over?

Or that Burke didn't have the cord with him when he went to wake his sister up to go downstairs with him.

 

[mauidreemn]

I think the "evidence" against Burke that you are asking for was tampered, hidden, disguised, and removed from the scene.

Now lets talk about circumstantial stuff, which is very important and in this case leads to the obvious conclusion here:

1. Burkes inappropriate behavior (I'm not talking about just afterwards, but even testimony of others beforehand of his aggression and temperament). Burke has never in the course of his many "interviews" displayed any sore of sadness for his beloved sister. It doesn't take a rocket science to conclude that he harbored jealousy and resentment towards her.

2. Burke admits to going downstairs after everyone was supposedly asleep.

3. What is the big secret with the pineapple? If she had pineapple, who cares -- why hide it. Well, its suspicious because it is almost a full bowl and that PR couldn't even admit it was their bowl. Why not?

4. John admitted that he used the flashlight that night, which would explain why it was out -- why was it wiped down? Why wouldn't they admit it was theirs?

5. John was MIA for several minutes that morning -- what was he doing? Was he in the basement? What is the explanation for this?

6. If innocent, why so long for JR and PR to do formal police interviews and turn over all their clothing from that night?

7. Burke was heard on the 911 call. No question about the third voice. Why are they lying about it and why did PR hang up so quickly?

8. The Intruder Theory has been without question debunked, who else is left?

9. Forensic pathologist was not allowed to enter home or sit in on autopsy. Why not?

10. Why was JR in such a rush to go see his attorney in person that day?

11. Detective at scene tells JR they are going to search house from top to nottom. JR immediately grabs his buddy and heads straight for basement.

12. Why is their former friend, Fleet White, more interested in the truth coming out than they are?

13. Grand Jury "prepared charges of child abuse resulting in death and accessory to a crime for both John and Patsy Ramsey in the death of their daughter." The grand jury felt that both the Ramseys permitted a child to be "unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey" and rendered assistance to a person "knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death."

And that's not even everything that we know. And who knows what other evidence is there that we haven't been privy to? I can guarantee that if there is other evidence out there that would have exonerated the Rs, it would have been made known.

Much of this is complete speculation on your part.

 

[mauidreemn]

While the show did a good job of explaining what led them to the BDI scenario, I didn't like that people on social media were attacking Burke after it aired, because they assumed it MUST be what happened. I mean, Burke could be guilty, but he might not be as well.

I totally agree with this. There isn't any concrete evidence that Burke was involved <modsnip>

 

[molly1255]

No other motive for JonBenet's supposed kidnapping/killing has ever been found. In fact, only the ransom letter brings up any ulterior motives - and that is just created drama. John and Patsy immediately began throwing their friends and employees under the bus, but John was a pretty nice guy and really, no one had a reason to do this. His business was not a nefarious one and not directly involved in national defense. It was just a plausible straw to grasp at, to construct a huge red herring factor in. It was a diversion from the 3 people left alive in that home on the morning of December 26th.

The Grand Jury's indictments tell the story. They saw evidence we will never see, and they indicted both John and Patsy for negligence as well as assisting in the cover-up of a 1st degree murder. Pretty plain, I'd say.

I agree. IMO, everything about the note is absolutely preposterous. No one has ever surfaced that fit any of the reasons given in the RN. Total red herring. But it worked. It sent BPD in the wrong direction, at least in the initial hours and by the time they figured out something was amiss with the RN, events had already taken place at the Ramsey home that would destroy the crime scene.

I also agree the Grand Jury's indictment is very telling and they certainly saw and heard things we will never know about.

 

[chlban]

I totally agree with this. There isn't any concrete evidence that Burke was involved yet the attacks continue. Very sad

If Burke didn't do it, he should take that up with his father. Because if he is innocent, then Patsy did it and she obviously can't be prosecuted either.

I know honesty is a tough concept in that family, but this mystery could have been over and mostly forgotten, at least by the public, if they had old the truth in the beginning.

 

[SecretaryGal]

Much of this is complete speculation on your part.

Really? Exactly what part is speculation??

 

[johnjay]

I totally agree with this. There isn't any concrete evidence that Burke was involved yet the attacks continue. Very sad

I'm not feeling sad for Burke or John. I still feel sad for JBR. I feel sad for all the people who had a finger pointed their way for this crime for no good reason. I feel sad for how police were treated. I feel sad for how much the 911 operator had to carry and keep to herself all these years. But no sadness for Burke or John - I am happy that the dog got a new home - the dog got the only happy ending in this story.

 

[SecretaryGal]

I totally agree with this. There isn't any concrete evidence that Burke was involved yet the attacks continue. Very sad

What is sad here is that a little girl was killed and people want to fly in the face of justice.

There is no 'could be' about it. The evidence has been discussed here ad nauseam.

What "concrete" evidence would do it for you? I'm betting that it is 'DNA'

This isn't a CSI episode.

Someone disposed of evidence.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Much of this is complete speculation on your part.

No, most of that post was questions. Questions Ramsey supporters prefer not to think about so they yell "Speculation!" instead.

 

[ElleElle]

Then if Burke did not do it, then why did he not meet up with investigators after his exams?

If my sibling was killed 20 years ago, I would want to follow up with anything. This is not logical.

 

[Tadpole12]

If you have a big, cavernous house like the Ramsey's, this doesn't seem weird or ominous.

Sure, most parents would not leave exposed broken
glass accessible around children,
most people do fix a broken window,
but the Ramseys are exceptional in their behaviours
patterns, as often noted.