The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[observation]

I don't believe any of this was new. These same theories have been discussed up and down and back and forth for years. All of them. Nothing was new or ground breaking. Same ole, same ole.

If that's true, ask good old LW why his panties are in a knot. The IDI was disproven as well- it's never had legs to stand on to begin with.


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[TheOtherChristina]

Why should I have to verified? Have you? You make a claim that you've seen a pediatrician ask a child about sexual abuse.

Exactly what area of expertise do you think someone needs to be verified in to be permitted to relay their personal experience? "Verified breathing human?"

:what:

 

[TeaTime]

The demonstration of how impossible it was to come through the basement window and not disturb the spider web was new.

The demonstration of a child smashing a skull in a way similar to what happened to JBR was new.

And I suspect for many viewers of the program, the extra voices on the 911 call was new.

I don't recall seeing Burke not to be able to identify the bowel of pineapples before - that was amazing to see.

I also suspect the train track poke was new for most viewers and the crazy stun gun idea was shown for how silly it was.

And I've only seen the 911 operator on one other show- I'd call her new - and she gave very powerful testimony.

I'll just add, other than confessing, I don't think Burke could have done a better job of setting up this show.

I don't believe any of this was new. These same theories have been discussed up and down and back and forth for years. All of them. Nothing was new or ground breaking. Same ole, same ole.

With all due respect, the 'deer-in-the-headlights' response to a photo of the bowl of pineapple was new information.
BR being downstairs, alone, after everyone was asleep is new information.

The crime scene photo of the spider web was new information.

 

[mauidreemn]

If that's true, ask good old LW why his panties are in a knot. The IDI was disproven as well- it's never had legs to stand on to begin with.


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How so?

 

[observation]

How so?

Well, tantrums on twitter and threatening to sue CBS are the two obvious ones that come to mind.


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[PrimeSuspect]

There is absolutely NO evidence to support any of these theories. None. So kiddos playing outside don't injure each other? Kids that play outside do. All the time

My daughter has a slight scar under her eye she received from her best friend when they were both 6 yrs old, just horseplay. My son has a scar on his hairline where he accidentally slammed his head down on a oil heater, the list goes on with scars, I have them too. Burke is painted as evil, so, so sad.

 

[mauidreemn]

With all due respect, the 'deer-in-the-headlights' response to a photo of the bowl of pineapple was new information.
BR being downstairs, alone, after everyone was asleep is new information.

The crime scene photo of the spider web was new information.

Seriously? The pineapple means nothing. The Ramsey's left all of their dishes out from that day. I could see Patsy giving the kiddos a bowl of pineapple sometime during the day and it was left there. They left every single thing out from that day.

The spider web has been discussed over and over for years. Just because Lou Smit said it does not make it true. But it makes me feel bad to say that because I think that Lou Smit was a good and decent man and his heart was in the right place.

 

[johnjay]

I don't believe any of this was new. These same theories have been discussed up and down and back and forth for years. All of them. Nothing was new or ground breaking. Same ole, same ole.

It's one thing to discuss the spider web, it's another to show someone going though the window trying to avoid it. That was new.

And the demonstration of the boy bashing the skull in a remarkably similar way with the flashlight was new.

And showing that the touch DNA was irrelevant was good for people to see.

I'll add, it was very helpful of Burke to admit that he went back downstairs after everyone was kind off in bed.

But I'm not 100% happy with the show, I thought they were sloppy with their conclusion which relied heavily on imagination, not facts that they could back up. They have no way of knowing that JBR snuck a piece of pineapple from Burke and that made him mad and hit hurt. They're just guessing - like many of us here are guessing. I don't really feel that it was responsible for them to do that - even though I'm glad they got Burke's name out there in a big way.

 

[ThinkHard]

Good points. As to the golf club incident, JBR was not hit so hard that she suffered any serious injury, so that sounds like reasonable childhood accident. What is more likely - that BR was attacking his sister, or that PR was a child abuser? It certainly isn't BR's fault that JBR had not achieved the potty training expected of 4 year olds by age 6 1/2 and had vaginitis and rash issues from being soiled. Also in previously posts, JBR is seen with bruises on her inner upper arm (right?) in two different photos, two different bruise patterns. They look like fingertip pinch bruises from having her upper arm grabbed harshly. Who is most likely to grab a child by the upper arm so hard and long that bruises remain, BR or PR? Whose fingertips reach all the way around a small arm?

Those arm bruises look more like "monkey bites" which kids usually do to each other. In middle school, circa 1997 the girls in my grade had a monkey bite war going on....we finally all got called to have a meeting with the guidance counsellors about how serious inflicting these bruises on each other's arms was.....btw the most targeted place to give someone a monkey bite, is the skin on their inner arm.

The golf club incident was seriousness enough to consult a plastic surgeon. (Personally I took a back swing from a golf club to the eyebrow when I was 9 by my babysitter, it was an accident and she felt awful, and it was 100% my fault...still have a scar....my mother never took me to the dr). If JB's was seriousness enough to go to a plastic surgeon, I have serious doubts on how accidently it was....after all my injury came from a16 year olds back swing....JBRs supposedly came from a 9 year olds.

Regression in potty training is common in children who's parents are dealing with cancer.

Wiping issues is a common cause of recurant yeast infection in girls that age.

 

[ukrberserker23]

What happened to Scarlett Scarpetta.? She is usually in the thick of it when it comes to defending the Ramsey's.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It's one thing to discuss the spider web, it's another to show someone going though the window trying to avoid it. That was new.

And the demonstration of the boy bashing the skull in a remarkably similar way with the flashlight was new.

And showing that the touch DNA was irrelevant was good for people to see.

I'll add, it was very helpful of Burke to admit that he went back downstairs after everyone was kind off in bed.

But I'm not 100% happy with the show, I thought they were sloppy with their conclusion which relied heavily on imagination, not facts that they could back up. They have no way of knowing that JBR snuck a piece of pineapple from Burke and that made him mad and hit hurt. They're just guessing - like many of us here are guessing. I don't really feel that it was responsible for them to do that - even though I'm glad they got Burke's name out there in a big way.

The 2 things that stood out for me.

 

[observation]

Seriously? The pineapple means nothing. The Ramsey's left all of their dishes out from that day. I could see Patsy giving the kiddos a bowl of pineapple sometime during the day and it was left there. They left every single thing out from that day.

The spider web has been discussed over and over for years. Just because Lou Smit said it does not make it true. But it makes me feel bad to say that because I think that Lou Smit was a good and decent man and his heart was in the right place.

PR denies ever having any pineapple in the house. Then comes the photo of it right on her dining room table. DP asks BR if he might have eaten pineapple with JBR that day.. um, maybe?
This girl ate pineapple and it was not in her sleep. The pineapple means a lot more given the parents level of denial it's even their bowl.


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[otg]

I wanted to juxtapose the times her doctor mentioned the bedwetting with the time Patsy told the detective she never discussed the bedwetting with her doctor.

Amazing, Magdalyn! That's really smart to put the two pieces of evidence together. Do you think maybe Patsy was being... Ohhhhh... Could we say a little less than completely truthful? :giggle:

 

[observation]

TRICIA- can you repost how to block certain posts from showing in the feed- please and thank you.


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[ThinkHard]

I feel like the one biggest thing the CBS special opened my eyes to was that not all the little circumstantial things discovered have to be directly related to what happened the night she died, and one person didn't have to be responsible for all the things that happened that night.

My son is taking a forensics course this year and they had been studying this case prior to the CBS show. When he saw it, he said, "We never really seriously considered Burke because he would have been too small to carry her down the stairs." Many people assumed whoever killed her did everything else (ransom, carried her to the basement, changed her panties, etc.)

Also, she may have been a victim of different things at different times, but only one of her victimizers killed her. Sexually abused by one person. Pinched on the inside of her arm by another. And received repeated head strikes when she angered yet a third person.

Also, mark me as a person who never had a pediatrician EVER ask me about sex/sexuality/appropriate behavior, and certainly not when I was under 6 years old! Same for a pediatrician asking MY children. Never happened. I'd have pulled them from the practice if a male pediatrician asked how my 5 year-old daughter's sexual education was coming along. I'm in a "That's a Red Flag!" camp. The only way Jonbenet's doctors questions/notes wouldn't completely squick me out is if he's asking because Patsy has expressed concern to him that Jonbenet was possibly being sexually abused. But then it would be hinky that that info is not included in the notes.

JMO!

Who's to say anyone carried her down the stairs....perhaps that's were the crime occurred in the first place. that seems like pretty poor reasoning for a CJ class....not to mention an almost ten year old can definetly carry a 6 year old, especially sense he was the tallest in his class and she was slight.

 

[otg]

What happened to Scarlett Scarpetta.? She is usually in the thick of it when it comes to defending the Ramsey's.

She made a less than graceful exit, but I'm beginning to think she may have been reincarnated recently.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Here's a better quality coloured (although clearly touched up) copy of photo being discussed up-thread. I don't think there's any mark evident above the eye. I do find the dilation of her pupils interesting, though.

 

[Laughing]

The discussion was about meds prescribed to Patsy after JonBenet's body was discovered, tranquilisers probably.

Thanks, Tortoise! With advanced practice nurses and pharmacists in the family I know a thing or two about appropriate prescriptions.

I did not know the circumstance of the pediatrician writing a prescription for Mom. Your suggestion is reasonable & I do appreciate your input & style.

:seeya:

 

[PositiveLight]

Who prescribed the meds? Regardless, Dr. Beuf had treated the family for years. I'm not sure why this is an issues. No, and I repeat, NO, pediatrician or family practioner is going to examine for sexual abuse or ask outright about sexual abuse. None of us in this field would ever do that. We look for signs and go from there. Bottom line, he never thought she was sexually abused. I take his opinion seriously. I'm sorry you don't.

Just curious. Are you a doctor?
I have an issue with the doctor being so seemingly obsessed with sexual activity in minors. Seriously. He referred to it many times in his charting. That is so weird and off the wall for him to always ask UNLESS he had reason to feel it was important. It is possible that he was asking because he saw indicators. He may have been covering his butt in case it was ever taken to court (not because of death mind you but if in fact she was being abused, and he felt it was a possibility, he wanted it mentioned at least in his charting so that he could at least say on the stand that he was concerned. For example if charges were ever pressed in an abuse case and the dr has to take the stand.) I doubt very seriously he would've ever seen this happening. But hindsight is 20/20.
Dr.'s do not normally ask these kind of questions of minors.
Also if he was a pediatrician, he had no business prescribing PR meds. But then again, the rich can get anything they want.
The only time my children's pediatrician prescribed me meds was when we all had a contagious virus. Severe throwing up and diarrhea. Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to take of the kiddos.
I know at least here in my area, now a days, they usually won't even call in refills without seeing you. In 1996 though, it was much more common to do so.

I feel different than you in regards to what I gathered from his notes. I feel like he WAS seeing signs and that is the reason he made those notes. Otherwise, him constantly asking about it is just off base and borderline gross. She is a child. Unless she had a damn good reason to have a vaginal exam it shouldn't have happened. That's not part of a normal checkup of a 6 yr old.
His note on her asking about sexual questions however could actually be simple. She may have been asking where babies come from. Which is typical at that age especially if there was a family member or close friend who was expecting.
all my humble opinion of course!

 

[ukrberserker23]

Yeah. I think she changed her user name.