The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[Heymom]

Wow what a fantastic site, I'm so glad I found it. I'm a first time poster so I apologize if I ramble a little bit. It took me days to get through this thread but it was worth it. I watched the CBS doc and thought it was very good. I believe that Burke did the strangulation as well as the head wound. I think it's hard to believe for some people that he's capable of something like that but I don't. My uncle (dads brother) is Robert Petrick, there's a thread devoted to him from 05. It's sometimes referred to as the "Google murder" he was one of the first people where internet searches were used to help convict. He had been charged with murdering his wife. He reported her missing and they found her body in a lake wrapped in a blanket secured with chains. My father was given up for adoption as an infant having always been told by my gma that she did not even know anything about his bio family. A few years ago she revealed she actually did and tasked me with finding them. Well I did and was shocked to find out who my Uncle was. I also found my aunt. I have corresponded with my Uncle in prison he is an arrogant sociopath. My aunt relayed a story of coming home from school one day and finding their other sister in a closet wrapped in a blanket secured with belts, she said Robert had done it. I'm sorry I know that I have gotten of topic I just completely understand how something like this could happen in a family any kind of family. It's been theorized that my father was put up for adoption because of the dysfunction and clear psychiatric issues that run in our family. I am halfway through Koler's book, very informational. I think that Burke being responsible ties most things together, and I really think the GJ indictments said a lot.

Welcome to you! I am sorry for what your family has gone through! But in a way, glad that your father was adopted away from that!

There have been countless theories about this case from the early days, but as time has gone by, and especially after Chief Kolar's book, more and more people are coming to see that BR is the likely culprit, with cover-up help from JR & PR. I believe he was already seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist before the murder and that is one reason his records were sealed - because he was already in treatment for whatever it was.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Welcome to you! I am sorry for what your family has gone through! But in a way, glad that your father was adopted away from that!

There have been countless theories about this case from the early days, but as time has gone by, and especially after Chief Kolar's book, more and more people are coming to see that BR is the likely culprit, with cover-up help from JR & PR. I believe he was already seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist before the murder and that is one reason his records were sealed - because he was already in treatment for whatever it was.

Is there any legal maneuver that would ever be able to access his health records?

 

[Heymom]

I don't think John was aware of anything if we go by BR statement. Because like you said it would be acting before the curtain went up. I feel John only figured out when he read the ransom note. I think he put two and two together as the 911 call unfolded. OR he found out soon after her scene in Burkes room. Remember Burke said it was an hour approximately before a cop came in shining his light. So maybe in that hour PR finally told JR what happened and they planned out their story before calling the cops. I just don't see it taking an hour for the cops to check the house. That's a small weird thought that keeps me wondering about the details. The devil is in the details in this case.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

As far as the staging, who is responsible for the size 12 Wednesday Bloomies underwear? I have always wondered why they thought it was necessary for her to be wearing the Wed. panties even though they were obviously NOT the pair she had been wearing earlier to the party. Was that Patsy's idea, or John's? Who would have known that JonBenet had been wearing the Wed. panties to the White's party?

I also think both parents knew that Jonbenet was dead and they knew this before midnight on 12/25, thus her tombstone, even though the coroner wasn't sure. THEY were sure.

 

[Heymom]

Is there any legal maneuver that would ever be able to access his health records?

None that I know of, although I am not an expert. After this many years, if one of the doctors goes out of practice, it's likely that the records will be destroyed.

 

[Karinna]

As far as the staging, who is responsible for the size 12 Wednesday Bloomies underwear? I have always wondered why they thought it was necessary for her to be wearing the Wed. panties even though they were obviously NOT the pair she had been wearing earlier to the party. Was that Patsy's idea, or John's? Who would have known that JonBenet had been wearing the Wed. panties to the White's party?

I also think both parents knew that Jonbenet was dead and they knew this before midnight on 12/25, thus her tombstone, even though the coroner wasn't sure. THEY were sure.

I think PR bought the underwear, and who else knew it was there? That part is so weird as to why put such a big pair of size 12 undies on such a small child who probably would of only been about a size 6?

 

[Magdalyn]

None that I know of, although I am not an expert. After this many years, if one of the doctors goes out of practice, it's likely that the records will be destroyed.

Looking at Colorado law, its likely both Burke and Jonebenet's records have already been destroyed. There's no minimum retention.

https://www.healthit.gov/sites/default/files/appa7-1.pdf

 

[CoreyRocks]

I think PR bought the underwear, and who else knew it was there? That part is so weird as to why put such a big pair of size 12 undies on such a small child who probably would of only been about a size 6?

I was wondering when they cleaned her up and changed her if it could have been because she was already dead. I know it was mentioned that when one dies your muscles cease and you urinate. Well I would think your bowels would void.

If she wore Wednesday panties to the Whites, you know sometimes she needed help wiping. Maybe to be consistent they thought Wednesday was important, even much larger ones, as long as it read Wednesday.

Like I have said before I believe JR is very involved, and did the re-dress. Imho alot feel it is PR but I really believe JR set her up to take the fall, and she mainly did, so it worked. JR wanted to come out looking uninvolved or not as much, and he did. Moo.

 

[zencompass]

Is there any legal maneuver that would ever be able to access his health records?

Hi ZsaZsa,

I believe that the Grand Jury was able to either access the records or they derived the information from the testimony of the pediatrician.

When I read the two votes to indict the R's it led me to believe that they could only have come to those conclusions if they had been made
aware of B.R.'s health records - as well as JB's.

Grand Juries have the power to have medical records unsealed or to require testimony from physicians who directly created those medical records. We do
know that the pediatrician testified before the Grand Jury.

All of the information/evidence from the Grand Jury's proceeding is in the hands of the D.A.'s office. Therefore I am of the opinion that the medical
information of the children is in that evidence which the D.A. has.

 

[DeDee]

I think when Patsy found the body her blood curdling scream got John's attention and they worked this all out together.

Imagine the severe trauma, shock and awe, in that moment when Patsy first found her future Miss America, JonBenet, lying tortured, dead and left exposed mostly naked.

That dang garrote scared me when this murder was first reported showing the image of it by adding a layer of unmatched brutality to her death. Only someone without a conscious coupled with hatred for a sibling could do such a heinous thing.

JR had a net worth of $6.5mm, att, that was spent trying to keep their secrets from the discerning public. And selfish Burke allowed them to do that to protect his image. In fact, his egomaniacal mother insisted upon it. She knew who killed her baby. JonBenet's parents knew that one does not create a new vaginal injury in order to hide previous sexual contact.

Was the killing of JonBenet an accident? So much effort and force was used to create the skull damage and strangulation that it appears to have been deliberate overkill.

What CBS expert panel believes happened and what happens now, explained by Jim Clemente (whose last name rhymes with JonBenet):

[video=youtube;z_zMffV2lhc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_zMffV2lhc[/video]

 

[dogperson]

I think the family believed there HAD to be a ransom note. They wanted LE to believe JBR was spirited away in the dead of night. Without a ransom note, you simply have a missing children, and what would LE do first? Search every nook and cranny of that house thoroughly. Plus cast a very suspicious eye on the missing child's family. I think the original plan was to conceal the body until LE cleared out to search for the foreign faction.

Having said that, the shorter the ransom note the better. Every single letter is a potential clue to the author's identity so it should be kept to 2=3 sentences at most.

Patsy may have asked for the $118,000 because she knew John would have to get the ransom together. This would be readily liquid cash from his bonus. LE would know something was wrong if he didn't get the ransom ready. If the letter asked for more, it would have taken more time, and he could not have it by the set time for the ransom call. They wanted the police OUT of the house as early as possible. This is probably why the ransom call was supposed to come between 8am-10am. When it didn't come, they thought LE would leave in pursuit of the foreign faction and the family could hop on a plane, possibly with JBRs body.

 

[zencompass]

"JONBENET'S PAGEANT TITLES:
Colorado State All-Star kids Pageant: April 1994.
Little Miss Charlevoix: July in 1994.
Tiny Miss Beauty: unknown year.
America's Royale Tiny Miss: Division title: July, 1996.
America's Royale Miss Colorado Dream Queen: July 1996.
Miss Colorado Sunburst: October 1995.
Sunburst National Pageant: 2nd place: August 1996.
Colorado's Little Miss Christmas: December 17th 1996.
Colorado's All-stars Christmas Pageant: Metal for talent: December 22nd 1996."

It could not have been a coincidence, in my opinion, that JonBenet who was crowned "Colorado's Little Miss Christmas" eight days before she was murdered
on Christmas Day - of all days!

This could point to premeditation. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[DeDee]

I think PR bought the underwear, and who else knew it was there? That part is so weird as to why put such a big pair of size 12 undies on such a small child who probably would of only been about a size 6?

The reason JonBenet was found wearing the new size 12s was b/c ALL of her other underwear was stained. Why not throw them away and purchase new ones? Forcing a child to notice their imperfections every single time they pull down their nasty looking drawers is cruel and abusive.

Rice cooked.

 

[zencompass]

Imagine the severe trauma, shock and awe, in that moment when Patsy first found her future Miss America, JonBenet, lying tortured, dead and left exposed mostly naked.

That dang garrote scared me when this murder was first reported showing the image of it by adding a layer of unmatched brutality to her death. Only someone without a conscious coupled with hatred for a sibling could do such a heinous thing.

JR had a net worth of $6.5mm, att, that was spent trying to keep their secrets from the discerning public. And selfish Burke allowed them to do that to protect his image. In fact, his egomaniacal mother insisted upon it. She knew who killed her baby. JonBenet's parents knew that one does not create a new vaginal injury in order to hide previous sexual contact.

Was the killing of JonBenet an accident? So much effort and force was used to create the skull damage and strangulation that it appears to have been deliberate overkill.

What CBS expert panel believes happened and what happens now, explained by Jim Clemente (whose last name rhymes with JonBenet):

[video=youtube;z_zMffV2lhc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_zMffV2lhc[/video]

Hi DeDee,

I bolded two of your insightful sentences. With your sentences in mind, and the fact that JonBenet won the Colorado's Little Miss Christmas on December 17th 1996 - eight days before she was brutally murdered - on Christmas Day - speaks volumes to me. The word "premeditation" speaks to me. This was no coincidence.

 

[No it's not]

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but is there a common thought on why there was a pillow on the kitchen counter? Has anyone come up, where the pillow came from? Was there a pillow missing from JBR' room or BR's room? JAR's room?

-Nin

 

[DeDee]

Hi DeDee,

I bolded two of your insightful sentences. With your sentences in mind, and the fact that JonBenet won the Colorado's Little Miss Christmas on December 17th 1996 - eight days before she was brutally murdered - on Christmas Day - speaks volumes to me. The word "premeditation" speaks to me. This was no coincidence.

JonBenet had become "clingy" toward her Mother. We may assume it was due to the torture JB endured by her older brother. The reason we can safely assume prior mistreatment is BR had assaulted already her with a golf club. We have photos of JB with dark bruising on her arms and marks resembling those found on her body at death in the photo when wearing the red and white sundress while barefoot. It is an adorable picture of JonBenet but the red wounds on her legs are undeniable.

Patsy was out of town in NYC when her daughter was driven, iirc, by JRs pilot, MA, in the Christmas Parade when JonBenet rode in the convertible, for winning the state title of Colorado's Little Miss Christmas. BR most likely attended with their grandparents in whose care they were left. Little Miss Christmas was gorgeous in her red velvet clothes and coat. That we know of, she received a glistening tiara, a shiny new trophy for her mom, and the stuffed Santa Bear as prizes. BR had to be jealous of seeing his sister receive all of this adoring attention not by just his parents and grandparents but now by the entire community.

BR slurs his younger sister in the DP interview when he describes her actions in the beauty contests, more or less, as acting like a strip teaser, by "flaunting it". BR then mimicked the motion by pretending to remove a skirt to reveal the bodysuit being worn underneath.

There is just so much to say about this turn of events 20 years after her death. These current revelations of the truth is an eye-opening watershed for JBs murder investigation. BR should never have gone on the DP Show. I think we all can agree upon that fact.

 

[CoreyRocks]

I watched the season premiere of Criminal Minds Season 12 this week and in the credits Jim Clemente is acknowledged as co-producer. Fyi.

 

[No it's not]

What is the pillow sitting on? Is that hair styling stuff/ spray next to it?

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but is there a common thought on why there was a pillow on the kitchen counter? Has anyone come up, where the pillow came from? Was there a pillow missing from JBR' room or BR's room? JAR's room?

-Nin

Quoting myself now..

I am completely bumfuddled by this now. According to JR, they would never leave food on the table like the pineapple bowl..but the looking at this, all the bagels and stuff from breakfast..WERE THEY ALL UP ALREADY HAVING BREAKFAST THAT MORNING??

CBS Special Part1 Marker 01:01:19

-Nin

 

[Tortoise]

snipped for focus

JonBenet's parents knew that one does not create a new vaginal injury in order to hide previous sexual contact.

I'm interested in why you say this DeDee?

 

[Tortoise]

"JONBENET'S PAGEANT TITLES:
Colorado State All-Star kids Pageant: April 1994.
Little Miss Charlevoix: July in 1994.
Tiny Miss Beauty: unknown year.
America's Royale Tiny Miss: Division title: July, 1996.
America's Royale Miss Colorado Dream Queen: July 1996.
Miss Colorado Sunburst: October 1995.
Sunburst National Pageant: 2nd place: August 1996.
Colorado's Little Miss Christmas: December 17th 1996.
Colorado's All-stars Christmas Pageant: Metal for talent: December 22nd 1996."

It could not have been a coincidence, in my opinion, that JonBenet who was crowned "Colorado's Little Miss Christmas" eight days before she was murdered
on Christmas Day - of all days!

This could point to premeditation. What are your thoughts on this?

What stuck out for me was the date. That's the date Patsy rang the doctor's surgery three times, and couldn't remember why.