The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[otg]

What are you thinking? Something like maybe a golf club sideways? Like a putter or a ptching wedge?

Some kind of heavy cylindrical object with a diameter between 1/2" and 1".

 

[Linda7NJ]

OliviaG1996,
After watching the CBS show twice, and I have to watch episode one for the 911 call again. I reckon the flashlight might be a red herring, it was funny to hear one of the investigators tell spitz you normally use a flashlight to see where you are going, not whack people as BR did with the golf-club.

That was the flashlights role, i.e. to allow the R's possibly including BR to navigate about the house. in the Dr Phil show BR agreed his dad or/and himself used the flashlight that night, BR certainly said he crept downstairs, on his own. So with no intruder involved, we might expect JR's prints on the flashlight, yet it was wiped clean, also if the parents were ignorant about the head blow, why bother wiping it clean?

How about the blunt force weapon being a metal train carriage or similar from BR's bedroom?

.

Didn't a neighbor claim to see someone using a flashlight that night??


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[otg]

Seems like cynic and otg did lots of experiments and posted them on FFJ. There was one particular object that resulted in a more oval-shaped hole, but I can't remember what it was at the moment. Otg, do you remember?

Yes..

 

[otg]

I could be wrong but when I watched the CBS show that when they were discussing the head wound they talked about the natural suchers(spelling) of the skull and where they fuse. It sounded to me like they described the wound along and to the right of these suchers and I'm no expert but I think that it could definitely account for the rectangular shape and not the crescent shape if you are hitting something that already has a crack/fissure whatever it's going to break along that crack. Idk if anyone understands what I'm saying lol but it makes sense to me especially since I think they said the skull isn't fully fused yet at that age.

The "sutures" are where the different plates of bone fuse together as a baby grows older. The unfused area between several of these plates at the top of a baby's head is where the "soft spot" is.
https://www.google.com/search?q=skull+sutures&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[PositiveLight]

PositiveLight:

Wow. What a herculean effort to transcribe all that. I just gotta say, a simple "Thanks" wasn't enough.

Haha thank you! It took forever!

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[PositiveLight]

It's just really telling to me. I mean it's weird that he says it's prescribed by Burkes psychiatrist. It's easy to miss that nugget if your not paying attention or aren't familiar with the difference in profession. He would absolutely be seeing a therapists or counselor of he was seeing someone to deal with the murder of JBR. If he's under continued care of a psychiatrist it's because he's been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder and May or may not be prescribed medication as well. And I think most versed in psychology know this. Big slip up for me. On an end note, do these parents not have their own doctors? Geez!

Definitely agree. A psychiatrist is there to prescribe the meds and the psychologist is there for therapy (no prescriptions!) I know from personal experience with my daughter and me.

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[PositiveLight]

I thought the fact that the bowl of milk/pineapple had both Burkes and Patsys fingerprints on it, while the ice tea had only Burkes, was very telling. The theory the experts on the show came up with that Patsy was up with Burke and he was eating it, and then goes to check on JonBenet, which wakes her up and she realizes her brother is up and goes downstairs is very plausible. I could easily see a child just reaching and grabbing some pineapple out of the bowl without asking and the one with the bowl striking out in anger like any other kid does when something is taken from them. That theory makes sense to me. The testing with the flashlight was on the money for creating the same type of skull fracture. And that flashlight was on the table when crime scene photos were taken. And I agree that a 9-10 year old boy could inflict that wound on a 6 year old. As a nurse I've seen many injuries inflicted from various objects by young kids that you might not think could be done. But the video of Burke swinging his arm twice in a pretty fast hard hit shows that he could have produced that injury using the large maglite flashlight in my opinion. I agree that this theory makes a lot of sense. After that, the coverup all started. And no one mentioned Burke being disappointed that they were supposed to be going to Disneyworld in the morning. He just played possum in his bed, awake, and waited for his parents to tell him what to do next. No adult has ever said that Burke asked what happened to his sister or where was she or what about our trip? He has done nothing all these years to try to find the killer of his sister. Just went on with his life, quietly and basically as a loner. I find all of his behavior very strange. And I think he really somehow managed to fool Dr Phil in his interviews as well.

At first when the first two episodes of Dr. Phil aired, I thought for a minute we might make some progress towards solving this case. Forget for a minute the fact that Dr. Phil said no lawyers, yet L.W. was interviewed and his daddy JR seemed to talk the most and get the most airtime...
When Dr. Phil came out with the surprise question and answer episode I was so pi$$ed. Seriously. Then to find out LW was also Dr. Phil's lawyer, it all made sense. Dr. Phil can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. The ONLY thing we got from this was Burkes shocking behavior and smile. No amount of horse crap Dr. Phil was selling was I buying after the Q&A session. I can give him credit though for finally getting that creep on air to speak. Him AND his daddy. And LW. Blegh. They might think they fool the masses but they are very mistaken. Sorry I'm in one of those moods tonight! Hahahaha 😂😂JMOO

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[PositiveLight]

PR also told LE that she had only read the first few lines of the ransom note, up until she got to the part where it said "we have your daughter" and ran upstairs to check JBR room and scream for JR. So if she only read the first few lines than why did she tell the 911 operator it said Victory! SBTC when asked if it said who took her?

Exactly! Oh and welcome to the Ramsey case! *Waves!!!*

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[PositiveLight]

I thought that when Patsy died, John would put out a public statement blaming her and some kind of story that it was an accident and that he couldn't come forward before that because of her fragile condition and then her cancer returned so he couldn't do it then. He would have claimed he was protecting Burke or something. But that never happened.

Same here Sherri. Unfortunately we will probably never know.

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[perkerkel]

Marking spot

 

[BOESP]

What do we know or think is missing from the house?

JonBenet's black velvet pants?
Rolls of duct tape and cord
Gloves worn when writing the ransom note?
Practice pages
JonBenet's pink pyjama pants
The cloth used to wipe her blood and the end of the paintbrush
Whatever was used as a weapon?

Anything else?

Patsy is said to have owned a pair of fur-lined boots whose fur may have been consistent with animal hairs found on the scene. Some speculated it was beaver hair others speculated it was wolf hair. Regardless, the boots apparently were not found.

 

[Annapurna]

I'm pretty sure her black velvet pants were found in her room. I think I remember seeing a photo.

 

[treeseeker]

I'm not familiar with the animal hair evidence, but some nicer paintbrushes are made with animal hair.

 

[BOESP]

I'm not familiar with the animal hair evidence, but some nicer paintbrushes are made with animal hair.

Here's the former discussion on the animal hairs, which includes (I think) discussion on Patsy's paintbrushes.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?38631-The-Animal-Hair-amp-Transfer

And here's another good link on fiber discussion:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-fibers.htm

 

[PositiveLight]

That is what people are remarking about. The way he says that phrase and describes his mother, it is as if he has done something very minor like leave his dirty clothes on the floor, and Patsy is <rolls eyes> "going psycho again." Maybe John tossed off that phrase, with a wink to Burke, when Patsy was upset or stressed about something, "Oh wow, there she goes again, going psycho..."

Yes, it is completely inappropriate to the situation. Apathetic, perhaps, but it almost seems like he is mocking her, as if he was watching this and enjoying it.

I seriously think he got a total thrill out of it. I think he continued to get a thrill from it even years later and maybe still does. One thing that strikes me and makes me sort of lean in this direction is that even as an adult, he seems to make light of the whole situation. IMHO he has not shown any remorse for the crime. I think he did it and he's still glad he did it. Will he kill again? Depends on if someone makes him angry or jealous enough. JMOO.

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[OliviaG1996]

What do we know or think is missing from the house?

JonBenet's black velvet pants?
Rolls of duct tape and cord
Gloves worn when writing the ransom note?
Practice pages
JonBenet's pink pyjama pants
The cloth used to wipe her blood and the end of the paintbrush
Whatever was used as a weapon?

Anything else?

Assuming BR owned Hi-Tecs with a round-shaped compass on them, I'm willing to bet he walked out of the house with them on his feet. As soon as the Rs heard there was an "unidentified" bootprint in the wine cellar, they went straight into the fire.

Speaking of which, I believe a very intelligent poster asked the question on another thread of whether or not the Rs owned a fireplace and whether or not the fireplace was on and running the morning of December 26th. Does anyone know?

 

[PositiveLight]

(WARNING: Graphic photos included within this post.)

Posted by cynic on the first part of this thread which is now closed (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...et-Ramsey-CBS-Sept-18&p=12814762#post12814762):





Spitz has done so much to mislead investigators and those of us who follow the case. From another of cynic’s posts, the following is an artist’s rendering of what Spitz said he had someone draw for him:

But this sketch does NOT match the actual depressed fracture that can be seen on one of the autopsy photos. Dr. Meyer’s use of the phrase “roughly rectangular shaped displaced fragment of skull” to describe the “hole” was inaccurate, but it probably looked like that at the time he first peeled back the scalp. But not having first-hand knowledge of the actual shape of the hole, Spitz had a drawing made showing an almost exact rectangle representing it. Even if a perfect rectangle were correct, as cynic points out from his own experiments and as an understanding of the geometry of all this would suggest, the end of a Maglite doesn’t “fit perfectly” as Spitz so often repeats.

During the segment on this in the CBS documentary, they also showed another sketch which more accurately depicts the actual fractures. They showed it without giving an explanation or telling us where it came from. But it appears to be another artist’s rendering of the actual autopsy photo that was released by Smit (even down to the coroner’s label that was in the photo showing below the skull). I screen capped that sketch:

Notice that this sketch is apparently made from the photo and not something concocted in Spitz’s imagination.

What I can tell by this photo and the representing sketch above it is the same thing I had posted a few years ago here (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ll-Fractures-The-Weapon&p=8660364#post8660364).

The line you see going vertically across the “hole” is where the ME made the coronal incision to reflect the scalp. There remains on the back part of the skull the thin membrane that lies between the skull and the scalp: the pericranium. It is bruised in the area of the impact from the weapon, but you can still partially see through that semi-transparent membrane where the actual depressed fracture is. It is not rectangular, it is elliptical. In fact, I can use my drawing software to draw over it a perfect ellipse:

If you look at the above post, you’ll see that if the linear fracture is pushed together, it fits even more perfectly with the ellipse I drew over the actual depressed fracture:

The problem with all this is that if Spitz starts off with the wrong information (shape of the depressed fracture), how could he possibly match it to the weapon used? That’s why I hate seeing so many accept his idea that the Maglite was used to cause the head wound. It wasn’t.

Quick question. If we are to believe the first golf club injury occurred much earlier to her cheek in Michigan.... wouldn't he have his own set of golf clubs? He wouldn't use Johns due to the size difference. Golf clubs are sized to the player. SO. If this is the case, and I would bet it is because these kids had everything they wanted or needed, where were his golf clubs in the house? Were they ever located? I was thinking for so long it may be John's club that was used due to its location near the body. But. If we think rationally, I would bet that Burkes clubs were kept near John's. Yet they weren't in any pictures I've seen of the crime scene. A golf club, in my opinion, is the only other instrument that could cause this shape of injury besides the flashlight. Both would have enough weight to inflict the injury without too much strength. So where are Burkes golf clubs? Maybe those are the ones removed from the home and not John's?

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[PositiveLight]

I could be wrong but when I watched the CBS show that when they were discussing the head wound they talked about the natural suchers(spelling) of the skull and where they fuse. It sounded to me like they described the wound along and to the right of these suchers and I'm no expert but I think that it could definitely account for the rectangular shape and not the crescent shape if you are hitting something that already has a crack/fissure whatever it's going to break along that crack. Idk if anyone understands what I'm saying lol but it makes sense to me especially since I think they said the skull isn't fully fused yet at that age.

I totally see what your saying!

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[Heymom]

I seriously think he got a total thrill out of it. I think he continued to get a thrill from it even years later and maybe still does. One thing that strikes me and makes me sort of lean in this direction is that even as an adult, he seems to make light of the whole situation. IMHO he has not shown any remorse for the crime. I think he did it and he's still glad he did it. Will he kill again? Depends on if someone makes him angry or jealous enough. JMOO.

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The only person he's ever been jealous of, AFAIK, was his sister - and she's long gone. His mother, too, is gone now. He's been an only child for the last 20 years. Now, could some other situation bring it back out again? Perhaps. Perhaps.

 

[PositiveLight]

O/T finally caught back up! Marking my spot! &#128515;

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