The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[just the facts pls]

Also I find it strange and almost insulting that the R's, DP, and LW care more about what people on the Internet think than spending time finding the "real killer" in BR's own words. :facepalm:

 

[Schuby]

I'm not an expert of DNA but I do know that ancestry DNA tests test over 700,000 markers to determine ethnicity. From what I've read/seen, DNA found on JBRs underpants and long johns were the result of touch DNA or could have been deposited there during a sneeze or even when JR moved the body.

If they've determined a match by only FOUR segments, then how in the world am I supposed to believe it's a Hispanic male when no ancestry DNA test worth their salt would test for less than several hundred thousand?

The touch DNA (skin cells) was recovered from two places on the long johns (waste band and leg). These samples match a deposit of blood DNA on her underwear. It has been established that it is male DNA but race is either unknown or has not been made public.

 

[Madeleine74]

Not quite yet...

more will be revealed regarding the touch DNA in tonight's episode. Dr. Lee to the white courtesy phone.

 

[hey-Debbie]

I've read somewhere JonBenet's DNA was on items inside the suitcase. I think it was on a pillow cover and something else.


ETA, No I was wrong. This is what I saw -
"Was JBR Placed in Suitcase? There is conflicting fiber evidence suggesting that fibers from the sham and duvet inside the suitcase were found on JBR's body. Some have speculated someone attempted to place JBR inside the suitcase to remove her (dead or alive) from the house." http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682512/The Basement

It wouldn't look odd if one of them was seen carrying out a suite case since they were going on vacation the 26th. But maybe someone realized she was too big to fit.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[just the facts pls]

The touch DNA (skin cells) was recovered from two places on the long johns (waste band and leg). These samples match a deposit of blood DNA on her underwear. It has been established that it is male DNA but race is either unknown or has not been made public.

The Denver Post:

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/10/cold-case-jonbenet-ramsey-murder-case/

For example, A & E’s two-hour documentary that appeared on Monday disclosed that new DNA testing that can identify a person’s racial background reveals that the killer is most likely of Hispanic heritage. Such evidence excludes the Ramsey family and could help detectives hone their investigation to only Hispanic suspects.

 

[Penelope]

Are there 3 episodes or two? I watched the first one last evening, and see that "part 2" is on tonight. However, I couldn't find a listing for "part 3." Is it being broadcast next Sunday night?

 

[otg]

Nice to 'see' you here too, Zen!

This grabbed my attention:

Because no case has ever been brought against anyone in Ramsey, the community has had no resolution and the tabloid press has been free to speculate, sometimes recklessly, based on only parts of the evidence. There has been no public airing of all the evidence in open court, nor can there be, unless and until a case is filed, which has been an understandable frustration to the community.

So does this mean that the CBS team also is not privy to all the evidence the DA has?

Yes, that's what it means. Investigators will never release (officially) any evidence. In fact, I think the 911 call used on the show is the same one Tricia got years ago. It has an obvious attempt to erase part of the end conversation.

 

[Schuby]

The Denver Post:

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/10/cold-case-jonbenet-ramsey-murder-case/

Thanks. :wave:

 

[Jasp]

Hi Everyone,

I haven't been on here in a long time. I've watched several shows regarding the JBR case and so far I think that the CBS one that aired last night with the conclusion tonight was one of the most thought out presentation I've seen. As for the Dr. Phil's show I was totally disappointed with his cheer leading approach I felt he took with a very bias account of what took place. I felt it was creative editing at it's best. Filled with misleading information that he stated was fact. I feel strongly that Burke was the person that killed JBR and that the parents covered it up in order to save face and the family image. I don't buy the intruder theory because I feel that spending that amount of time in the household would increase the chance of being caught. I'm waiting to see how they address the pineapple and tea, and the possibility of the train tracks that may have left the marks.

 

[PositiveLight]

Continued:

Graphic image warnings
Snippet from a news broadcast talks about finding a missing evidence has been found. The flashlight.

Jim Fitzgerald: "I'd like to think if I was one of the first investigators on the scene and all of a sudden there's a big 15 in or so maglight in the middle I'd at least want to say 'hey who does that belong to?"
Laura: This flashlight was never claimed by anyone living at the address or the police."
James Kohler: "None of the officers claimed it was their's and it was my understanding that it was a gift given to them and it was kept in the kitchen drawer."
Jim: "And that is presumptively how it got into the house."

Now the impact testing to decide if the flashlight could have made the injury to JBR's head. Also how much force it would take.
Dr. Spitz is describing the head injury and says the whole right side of the brain was bruised.
Spitz: "Energy waves went through the entire brain from the right side all over. This is called a concussive impact. It caused a concussion to the brain. In this case, a fatal concussion. The fracture to the skull preserved the appearance the dimensions of the flashlight that was on the counter in the kitchen. Forensic pathologists always look for patterns because a pattern opens the door to what type of instrument was used. But one thing is important there was not a drop of blood on the outside. Why were there not a drop of blood because there is an elasticity to the skin. So this is all blunt (showing the light end of the flashlight) nothing here will cut the skin. When the flashlight came down the flashlight went in for about half an inch, the skin was pushed in, broke the bone and did not cause any damage to the skin."
Laura: "Is there any way we can replicate that?
Spitz: "now remember that a human skull is an involved structure where there's a solid bone very thin in a 6 year old maybe 1/16ths of an inch thickness. Then there is a layer of spongy bone marrow, then there is another layer."
Jim asking if they can do a representation of that.
Jim holds flashlight and hits a thin piece of board.
The example matches the hole in the skull.
Spitz says he's seen a lot of different kinds of injuries and this instrument here (holding flashlight) can be an amazing weapon."
Laura: "So would it take tremendous strength to do this?"
Spitz: "No. Because this is a heavy object with three batteries in it. The skull of a 6 yr old we call them 'eggshell skulls'. "
Laura: "But you don't need much force .."
Spitz: "You don't need so much huge amount of force, no that is a mistake. It could be an adult. It could be a child that did it."

They are now setting up a skull at the height of JBR 3 ft 11 inches, pigskin is on top of the skull to act as the scalp, and a blonde wig with long hair.
They are trying to simulate it as closely as possible.
Jim brings up the issue that a lot of people have about whether a child of 9-10 can apply enough force to cause the injury.
A young boy with brown hair and a plaid shirt is asked to take the flashlight and strike the head in the location they point to.
He strikes the skull.
after peeling back the pigskin you can see a very similar hole as was found on JBR's skull.

Back at the round table of experts.
Henry Lee is examining the findings of the test.
Lee: " For any injury, it's velocity. Velocity squared times the mass gives you the energy. This is a lot of energy."
Spitz: states that in his mind there's no doubt that that flashlight or one just like it caused the injury.
Laura: "And it didn't take tremendous strength to do that."

After commercial a replay of the keep your babies close CNN interview.
January 1,1997 the Ramsey's do an interview on CNN before they have even given interviews to the BPD.

The experts are about to discuss and review the CNN interview because it was so close to the time of the murder and the beginning of everything.
Laura says it's not just that they did the interview it's what was said in the interview that's important.
Jim points out they haven't done separate interviews with BPD to rule them out as suspects, yet they are sitting down with CNN.
Jim Fitzgerald is a forensic linguist
Stan Burke a statement analyst
they are going to discuss media appearances the Ramsey's have made over the years the same way they looked at the ransom letter.
The Ramsey's say they aren't angry.
The experts say you should be angry and want to find out who did it and seek punishment.
That's the natural response.
interviewer asks PR if she is convinced someone kidnapped your daughter by someone outside family and friends.
PR shaking her head side to side in a no gesture
The experts point this out that she's her shaking her head no and when JR speaks up and says "Yes" she changes her head to up and down to say yes.
He doesn't go into further detail (JR) as to why he thinks someone did. He starts saying how his family is a loving family etc etc.
Stan says why did he even bring that in to the conversation? It's unnecessary. We had the answer, "Yes".
But he says JR wants the listener to hear "We are a loving, gentle family" That's the message being sent here.
JR: "For our grief to resolve itself, we now have to find out WHY this happened." (CNN interview)
Jim: "I mean why is it the WHY that's important?"
Laura: "It's a very odd turn of phrase isn't it?

Back to JR interview "We can't go on until we know why."
Stan: "This is probably a very honest question. John and Patsy are asking themselves. It's very likely they know who did it. And they may still be trying to figure out why did this happen."
Laura: "It's like an unconscious utterance in a way isn't it?"
Stan: "Absolutely.
Fitzgerald: "It's almost like he's jumping past that conclusion to who did it and now he wants to know why."
The keep your babies close scene plays out.

 

[Jasp]

CBS decided that on the heels of so many shows regarding JBR that they would shorten the 3 part series 6 hrs to 2 parts 4 hrs with the conclusion tonight.

 

[johnjay]

Are there 3 episodes or two? I watched the first one last evening, and see that "part 2" is on tonight. However, I couldn't find a listing for "part 3." Is it being broadcast next Sunday night?

I believe they cut it down from 6 hours to 4, so tonight is the end. Perhaps all 6 hours will become available in some other format.

 

[Dogface]

Watching the DP interview right now...and Dr. Phil is like my tv husband, I love him so much, but I can only assume he owed LW a favor for the softball approach he took in this. But one thing he brought up I found interesting, was another break in, sexual assault that occurred nearby 6 months after JBR's death.

 

[andreww]

Or it's possible that he exhibited serious problematic behavior and J&PR poured everything into JBR hoping for her to turn out normal. When they did that, and put JBR in the pageant industry, it would probably only acerbate any symptoms BR might have been having already.

According to former Ramsey maids the children were equally deprived of affection. Don't confuse JB & PRs pageant activities as love towards JB. There are plenty of clues out there that show JB was unhappy with pageant life. Remember, "those are more moms trophies than mine".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stormy415]

I was wearing my Bose audio headphones and I definitely heard Patsy say, "Jesus and what did you do." Also, I could hear John say, "we're not talking to you." Burke's "what did you find" too. I actually played it back on the DVR to make sure.

 

[UKGuy]

I think the way it went down is that the pit bull told someone else (another friend or neighbor?) that she had overheard the conversation and that Burke was talking nonchalantly about the manner of the strangulation. The person she told about it then told BPD. When they asked Stine about it, she denied it.


***ETA: Found the reference in FF. [Mary Ann Kaempfer had a son (Anthony Pecchio) who was a classmate and friend of Burke's]:

While attending the memorial services in Boulder, and while playing with Anthony in Atlanta, Burke was described by Anthony as acting like “he kind of knew what happened and trusted that
people would find out.”

Anthony indicated that Burke may have appeared “confused” at times, but was not acting upset and indicated that he was not scared. When asked how he was doing, Burke said he was “fine.” Anthony told investigators that he never saw Burke cry during their stay in Atlanta.

Kaempfer advised that the only time she had seen him display some emotion and sadness was at the cemetery after the graveside services. He had left a group of people and went to the side of JonBenét’s casket, patting it gently.

After that brief display of caring, Burke and Anthony went exploring, skipping through the headstones in the cemetery.

Upon returning from Atlanta on January 2, 1997, Kaempfer spoke to fellow parent Susan Stine and was told about a conversation Stine had overheard taking place between Burke and her son, Doug. This was reported to have taken place on the afternoon following the grief counseling session that had been hosted at JonBenét’s school on the morning of Saturday, December 28, 1996.

Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death.

Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.” This discourse between Burke and Doug had taken place no more than 2 days following JonBenét’s murder and apparently had such an impact upon Stine that she brought it up in conversation with
Mary Kaempfer at the first opportunity.
​

otg,

Upon returning from Atlanta on January 2, 1997, Kaempfer spoke to fellow parent Susan Stine and was told about a conversation Stine had overheard taking place between Burke and her son, Doug. This was reported to have taken place on the afternoon following the grief counseling session that had been hosted at JonBenét’s school on the morning of Saturday, December 28, 1996.

Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death.

Given the date, whats that three days after her death, and patently Burke should know no details regarding how JonBenet died, i.e. he's not read the Autopsy Report?

Yet he is debating the manner of JonBenet's asphyxiation with Doug Stine!

Thats why I reckon JonBenet was manually strangled and that the ligature and paintbrush has been added as staging.


.

 

[otg]

Very helpful, otg - thanks! Dogface pointed out today earlier in this thread the possibility that while PR made the call from a corded phone (let's just say it was the one she claimed to be at) JR could have been listening in to the call on a cordless phone. This would explain how PR hangs up but the call isn't immediately disconnected. It doesn't explain the voices at the end, unless you consider the following scenario: PR is on the phone with 911 (corded butler kitchen phone) while JR is there listening with a cordless phone. He can hear the 911 operator and can coach PR through the call as needed (maybe the reasons for some of her pauses, restating certain things?). She hangs up as BR is coming down the stairs right to that same area/hallway, and all three are picked up at the end of the call before JR turns his cordless phone off.

Thoughts?

I saw that, reintarnation, and thanked him/her for it. I hadn't considered that before, but it certainly is a possibility (IMO). Maybe Patsy hangs up while John is in another room with Burke to keep him from talking. John (not knowing Patsy hung up) hesitates before hanging up the other phone, leaving the line open. Hmmmmmmmm... Very possible.

 

[bluesneakers]

I was wearing my Bose audio headphones and I definitely heard Patsy say, "Jesus and what did you do." Also, I could hear John say, "we're not talking to you." Burke's "what did you find" too. I actually played it back on the DVR to make sure.

I heard it too and I heard his inflection so it sounded like "What DID you find?"

 

[minazoe]

I was wearing my bose too! Lol

 

[UKGuy]

I believe they cut it down from 6 hours to 4, so tonight is the end. Perhaps all 6 hours will become available in some other format.

johnjay,
Well I've yet to watch the CBS episode one and its only 1 hour and twenty minutes long, so you guys must get twenty minutes of ads per hour, wow.


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