The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

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The ransom note said, "We will call you between 8-10A.M" tomorrow! "or we might call earlier, because we will have people observing you, and if they see you going to the bank early, then they may call you earlier"

note: How do you go to the bank before its opened at 8AM?


How did they know their phone number, was it listed? I kind of doubt it would be.
 
If money was the compelling motivator for BR to go on DP show LW will be getting it all through this ridiculous LS.
 
I remember reading somewhere that the date was fudged because PR liked the drama of a Christmas Day death date.
 
I've always felt that Burke was whisked to bed after the head blow that night completely unaware that he'd killed JonBenet. When he awoke he was told JonBenet had gone missing and never connected the two events in his mind.
 
Playing devils advocate. Why wipe the flashlight and batteries set it neatly back on the table? Why not pull an OJ throw all that stuff in a duffle Bag and get rid off it and all the other small items like PR paintbrush. It's not like a door knob or permanent fixture you can wipe down but can't take and hide. The house was 7,500sq ft I'm sure they could have gotten rid or hide all the evidence that points to them.
 
I was surprised the show didn't make a point of the dry eyes in spite of what seemed to be PR's simulation of sobbing.
 
I think the pineapple being left has a very simple explanation. They never realized it was a key part of the evidence. They were so focused on covering up what happened that night that no one would have thought about the pineapple...they might not have known she took some of it and that it would be found in her stomach contents. That wasn't what they were focused on...they were only focused on a cover-up to save their son from knowing what he'd done and being taken away from them. I can't explain the flashlight. No one should wipe the batteries inside the flashlight but leave it there. It was snowing that night? They couldn't leave the house to dump anything. The notepad and pen stayed in the house, the flashlight stayed too...that's the only answer I can see.
Reports show it was not snowing that night. There was frost on the ground the morning of 12/26, but not snow.
 
I've always felt that Burke was whisked to bed after the head blow that night completely unaware that he'd killed JonBenet. When he awoke he was told JonBenet had gone missing and never connected the two events in his mind.

That makes sense.
 
Playing devils advocate. Why wipe the flashlight and batteries set it neatly back on the table? Why not pull an OJ throw all that stuff in a duffle Bag and get rid off it and all the other small items like PR paintbrush. It's not like a door knob or permanent fixture you can wipe down but can't take and hide. The house was 7,500sq ft I'm sure they could have gotten rid or hide all the evidence that points to them.

What if the person was wearing gloves? Would there be fingerprints on batteries fresh out of a pack? There wouldn't be fingerprints on the flashlight. Could it have been a cop's flashlight? I have no idea myself, just throwing out some questions.
 
I agree. The pineapple simply shows that the kitchen was not the crime scene. Who thinks of that when the crime scene is somewhere else? If that flashlight is anything like mine then the batteries would have jumped out because of that hit or maybe it was dropped after the hit, so somebody had to put the batteries back and therefore cleaned them off. Other then that, they simply made plenty of mistakes IMO.

Are you familiar with a mag lite? They are heavy duty all metal military grade flashlights. The bottom unscrews to put the batteries in. Hitting it against something hard would NOT knock the batteries out of a maglite. It's not a dinky little plastic thing. It's made to be dropped and thrown and used as a self defense weapon and not break or stop working.
 
At this point I wish the investigators would stop calling this a "homicide." I truly do not think anyone intended for JBR to die that night. Therefore, it's a killing as a result of an accident/moment of rage. There can't be any "justice" for JBR because the head bash cannot be taken back--Spitz confirmed that injury was fatal. Her heart continued to beat for some time, but her brain was mortally wounded--she was in essence a goner.

You can't today arrest BR for what he did in 1996 as a 9 yr and 11mo old child. I know people wish they could see the handcuffs and a perp walk, but that isn't going to happen. The Boulder DAs office could have brought charges against JR & PR for the obstruction of justice and endangerment, but they didn't and now it's too late.

But it wasn't really a "murder" in the sense that (IMO) intent was not part of this. Yes, the R's intended to cover it up and stage the scene to throw off investigators. Yes, that is a crime because it's illegal. But *IF* Burke inflicted the head bash, it's not considered murder. He may have intended to hit her, but legally-speaking he couldn't form intent to kill.


But it is a homicide. She died at the hands of another, regardless of it being an accident or intentional.
 
Are you familiar with a mag lite? They are heavy duty all metal military grade flashlights. The bottom unscrews to put the batteries in. Hitting it against something hard would NOT knock the batteries out of a maglite. It's not a dinky little plastic thing. It's made to be dropped and thrown and used as a self defense weapon and not break or stop working.

I driver occasionally for uber I keep one by my seat :)
 
I meant there was no blood on her head that would cause alarm and make the parents think she was seriously injured or dead. She would have looked as if she lost consciousness if they came upon her after she had been hit. In which case, the mother most probably A) Calls 911 B) Puts a cord around her daughter and chokes her to death with force.

I'll let you figure that one out.

Another point. By 5pm the Ramseys were still in the presense of others. According to what you believe, that would include them being awake for nearly 40 hours. Do you have any knowledge about police or other witnesses saying they were falling asleep in front of them, or were being incoherent, or appearing drugged or drunk. Try staying up for 40 hours and tape yourself talking to people for a length of time.

Another point. You believe Burke did it, or you believe Burke knows who did. A nine year old is a loose cannon, right? Could say anything to anybody, right? The Ramseys must have kept their 9 year old son close yeah? No. They sent young Burke to a neighbors to keep him away from the horrible situation. Like loving people, not like people who had something to hide.

People that knew and had come across Dennis Rader seemed normal enough until the world learned he was BTK? But people did come forward to say he was a most unsavory type of a person after he was caught. Look it up.

Why is it that the the tiny window in the basement is the only way you think an intruder could get in and out of the place. They had many visitors and guests to that home. Quite a few people knew the layout. John Ramsey broke into that window because he lost his key to the front door. There's a clue for you.

There are monsters who walk amongst us, who we would not recognize as they do look normal. But they come out at night with pitchforks and fire and going on witchhunts and victimising people who don't "look right" etc. If the authorities can't find find a suitable target for them, then they point the finger at the first available victim and hold it there, no matter what. Ask Lindy Chamberlain.

Thought: if there was no blood on JBR, why would a Ramsey think she was dead and stage it. Maybe one of them saw it happen.
 
I meant there was no blood on her head that would cause alarm and make the parents think she was seriously injured or dead. She would have looked as if she lost consciousness if they came upon her after she had been hit. In which case, the mother most probably A) Calls 911 B) Puts a cord around her daughter and chokes her to death with force.

If BR said that he hit her all it would take is for them to feel her skull to tell how bad the injury was. She had a huge caved in spot. Have you ever felt a fontanel on a baby? There is a definite difference in texture where the skull has not fused.
 
Playing devils advocate. Why wipe the flashlight and batteries set it neatly back on the table? Why not pull an OJ throw all that stuff in a duffle Bag and get rid off it and all the other small items like PR paintbrush. It's not like a door knob or permanent fixture you can wipe down but can't take and hide. The house was 7,500sq ft I'm sure they could have gotten rid or hide all the evidence that points to them.

To be honest I think "why was JonBenet's body still in the house" is a much bigger question and the flashlight's presence pales in comparison.

If it wasn't snowing, then why not drive off somewhere and put the body in woods and make it look like a real abduction to match the note?

Did Burke get up too early and changed the plans so that the police call had to be made immediately instead of a few hours later?

Only another forensic examination of the flashlight could confirm without doubt that the flashlight and batteries were wiped down. If they were wiped clean, then that strongly suggests that the Ramseys thought it was what was used. If it wasn't actually wiped clean, then that's something different.

Batteries (or is it lightbulbs?) shouldn't be touched when inserting them as that's supposed to affect their lifespan...some people would naturally try to insert batteries with a little finger contact as possible for that reason. No fingerprints on a flashlight casing is a bigger mystery...the batteries could be irrelevant.

I think the pineapple is very easily explained, because the focus of the cover up would be on the body, the room it's present in (but not what seem like minor details of the room, the fact that it's a room in active use, which anyone doing a cover up might want to leave intact to show that it's just a normal family room that nothing untoward has happened in), so I'm saying simply move the body and scene of crime elsewhere and focus on that place and scenesetting for the place where the body will be discovered.

There's only a few grief-stricken hours in which to do all of this. The pen was returned, the notepad returned, the indented pages were still present on the notepad. These are the actions of someone not thinking clearly and acting on automatic. There could be a ridiculous reason like wanting to use the flashlight to search in the dark....things don't always make perfect sense in real life because, unlike when writing a book, you don't have months to think about ever detail, and when overwhelmed with emotion you make strange errors by doing thing on automatic ...like putting the pen and notepad back in their home where they belong because it's the ransom note that matters and which you want to be found.

I think half the reason why this show is such an eye-opener is that it's not focused on every tiny detail. And that is actually good detective work...getting lost in details that have no logical explanation, because they are not the result of a clear-thinking mind, can be a massive error.
 
I've always felt that Burke was whisked to bed after the head blow that night completely unaware that he'd killed JonBenet. When he awoke he was told JonBenet had gone missing and never connected the two events in his mind.

Very interesting and probably most likely the most plausible scenario. That explains why he asked "what did you find?" On the 911 tapes. . I always suspected Burke. I was young myself when this all happened. I believe I had just entered high school but years later when I got into true crime I watched a special on it and thought Burke because he was the only
one who had a motive. After seeing his interview and now this CBS documentary I am convinced it was him but I think it was an accident. Just an older brother little sister fight over something trivial. God knows my brother could've accidentally killed me a few times!

The things that convinced me were the cobwebs in the window. There is just no way those would've survived someone going in and out of the window. Another thing that wasn't mentioned is the Windows themselves unless a light was left on in the basement, how would an intruder find those windows at night time? I mean they're under a vent that was covered with debris and foliage. Unless the person was familiar with the property, they wouldn't even know those windows existed.


The letter is and always has been a HUGE issue. First off why would someone committing such a horrible act (even if it was just to go in and kidnap JonBenet) spend so much time writing a letter. You'd think they'd want to be in and out as quick as possible It took 21 minutes to write the letter mechanically. Now factor in thinking and the practice letters, and I'll say 35-45 minutes to write it, in total. That's quite a long time to risk being caught. The next thing and possibly what bothers me more than the letter being written is the fact that the author of the letter put the paper and pen back where it belongs! I mean what a courteous burglar! So let me get this straight, they left your six year old daughter, dead in your basement but they were courteous enough to clean up the pen and paper they used? I'm surprised they didn't do your dishes and sweep the floor as well! Only the person who owns the pen and pad would put it back where it belongs.

the pineapples and milk bother me too. That had to be eaten at some point between the time they got home and the time she was murdered. Who is going to feed a child pineapples and milk? That's such a strange snack. Who cut the pineapples up?
Burke's reaction to that photo in the interrogation also troubled me. He got very stumped on that question.

There was a lot about Burke's behavior I found troublesome. The fact that he didn't get out of bed when there was this huge commotion going on and he didn't come down to investigate, that's totally weird. I had a cousin like that, though. He would be up in his room playing video games and never come out to say hi to anyone. That's different though. He said he heard his mom running around going "psycho" and something like that would usually peak the curiosity of a young kid.

Patsy and John's interviews right after the murder bothered me as well. They are way too composed. It seems like they rehearsed what they were going to say. Patsy fake cried during the interview too. She looks upset but there are absolutely no tears in here eyes. I know it was said that her emotions were real and raw the day of but that's because they were real and raw. She just realized her son killed her daughter. I'm sure that was upsetting.

By the way. I'm new here! Not new to WS but new to this part of the community.
 
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