The Charges - Why Not First Degree?

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

what do the two letters "WO" stand for under the CHARGES column? typically its translates as "without" but I am not sure in this instance.
tia

Because it's a 2nd degree murder charge at the moment. FL requires a grand jury indictment for 1st degree murder, so we have a bit of a wait for that.

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[TruthStar]

what do the two letters "WO" stand for under the CHARGES column? typically its translates as "without" but I am not sure in this instance.
tia

Yes, it stands for without. It goes along with the charge of second degree murder. To prove premeditated in the 20th Judicial circuit court is nearly impossible.

 

[Eileen730]

WO Premeditation!
HMMMM?

NoT a hit?
Argument ended in Murder?

 

[flgrl017]

WO Premeditation!
HMMMM?

NoT a hit?
Argument ended in Murder?

They must wait on the grand jury for murder 1.

 

[Eileen730]

They must wait on the grand jury for murder 1.

What about this?

The statute also punishes as second degree murder the killing of another human being during the commission of a felony that is imminently dangerous to human life. Also, if the defendant was involved in the commission of a predicate felony, but the homicide was perpetrated by another co-felon, the defendant can be charged with second degree murder.[4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule_(Florida)

I didn't read anywhere about a grand jury.


Is it possible they do not know which one killed her?

 

[Eileen730]

State law specifically requires a charge of second degree murder if the victim dies during the commission of one of the felony crimes specified by statute. These felonies include burglary, home-invasion robbery, kidnapping, sexual battery, and a number of other offenses. To establish second degree murder, the prosecutor must show that the victim died as a result of an act committed by a non-participant in the felony. If the defendant or another criminal participant in the felony caused the unlawful killing, state law requires a charge of first degree murder rather than second degree murder. Florida uses this law to deter and punish unintended deaths as a result of felonious activities - See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-second-degree-murder-laws.html#sthash.WIHmvkvz.dpuf


The more I read the more confused I get.

 

[KateB]

State law specifically requires a charge of second degree murder if the victim dies during the commission of one of the felony crimes specified by statute. These felonies include burglary, home-invasion robbery, kidnapping, sexual battery, and a number of other offenses. To establish second degree murder, the prosecutor must show that the victim died as a result of an act committed by a non-participant in the felony. If the defendant or another criminal participant in the felony caused the unlawful killing, state law requires a charge of first degree murder rather than second degree murder. Florida uses this law to deter and punish unintended deaths as a result of felonious activities - See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-second-degree-murder-laws.html#sthash.WIHmvkvz.dpuf


The more I read the more confused I get.

I'll muddy up things a bit with my interpretation.
They don't have to prove premeditation on either JRR or CWW. The fact that Dr. Sievers died by the hands of ONE (or both) of them, makes BOTH of them responsible for a first degree murder charge. Naturally, I'll defer to AZLawyer but I think that's been covered by her already in her thread.

We may see an upgrade to the charges soon considering the timing of CWW's transport, the motions in Missouri scheduled for this morning and a scheduled hearing in Florida 30 days from now.

Justice is coming.

 

[Eileen730]

I'll muddy up things a bit with my interpretation.
They don't have to prove premeditation on either JRR or CWW. The fact that Dr. Sievers died by the hands of ONE (or both) of them, makes BOTH of them responsible for a first degree murder charge. Naturally, I'll defer to AZLawyer but I think that's been covered by her already in her thread.


We may see an upgrade to the charges soon considering the timing of CWW's transport, the motions in Missouri scheduled for this morning and a scheduled hearing in Florida 30 days from now.

Justice is coming.

Thanks for your Mud lol

 

[Eileen730]

But it says here
If the defendant or another criminal participant in the felony caused the unlawful killing, state law requires a charge of first degree murder rather than second degree murder.

IMO this is what happened here but the second degree charge makes me think otherwise.
They would have been charged with 1st degree no matter which one killed her. Correct?

 

[Eileen730]

the prosecutor must show that the victim died as a result of an act committed by a non-participant in the felony... A non participant in the felony

So my thinking is
either charges will be changed on one of them when they find out who actually killed her.
or remain the same for both if they cant find out which one killed her. Right?

 

[KateB]

But it says here
If the defendant or another criminal participant in the felony caused the unlawful killing, state law requires a charge of first degree murder rather than second degree murder.

IMO this is what happened here but the second degree charge makes me think otherwise.
They would have been charged with 1st degree no matter which one killed her. Correct?

Yes, I believe so. (short answer)

(longer answer.)
But it still has to come from the Grand Jury. Sheriff Scott talked about it in the first interview with Tricia. And I'm not sure how often the Grand Jury convenes so the hearing to upgrade charges may already be scheduled. Would it possibly be the Nov 16th hearing we see already? IDK.

throws more mud back.

 

[human]

Yes, I believe so. (short answer)

(longer answer.)
But it still has to come from the Grand Jury. Sheriff Scott talked about it in the first interview with Tricia. And I'm not sure how often the Grand Jury convenes so the hearing to upgrade charges may already be scheduled. Would it possibly be the Nov 16th hearing we see already? IDK.

throws more mud back.

No mud! The reference by the Sheriff explains it.

 

[Eileen730]

No mud! The reference by the Sheriff explains it.

Ok but would they only charge the person that actually killed her with 1st degree and the other one gets second?


Mud Pie!

 

[Eileen730]

This is good to keep here lol
www.floridasupremecourt.org/.../chapter30/flgrandjuryhandbook.rtf

 

[Dmacky]

This is good to keep here lol
www.floridasupremecourt.org/.../chapter30/flgrandjuryhandbook.rtf

^^^
It says : Page Not Found Error
But there are two more on that page to choose from
Here is the one we need, I think?
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/

 

[Eileen730]

^^^
It says : Page Not Found Error
But there are two more on that page to choose from
Here is the one we need, I think?
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/

sorry let me go find it again its a download

Type in your search bar
florida grand jury hand book and its the first thing that pops up

 

[Bobbywoo]

Ok but would they only charge the person that actually killed her with 1st degree and the other one gets second?


Mud Pie!

Good question for the legal thread. It is my impression that you do not have to be the one who committed the murder to get first degree. You can also be charged w/ first if you helped orchestrate the murder. I would ask AZlawyer to be absolutely sure though.

 

[Luvrosco]

Sorry to just jump in,but are they saying there was no premeditation?

 

[concernedmother]

Sorry to just jump in,but are they saying there was no premeditation?

Thats sure what it looks like to me . So if it wasnt planned and it wasnt robbery WTH was the motive? jmo.

 

[Scout]

Sorry to just jump in,but are they saying there was no premeditation?

No. No. No.

It simply is part of 2nd degree charge that now stands. This will change to 1st Degree Murder with special circumstances after grand jury hands down indictment.

IMO