The Church?

[Nonni Brenda]

I cant remember that either. I'll go back and search. Cant now though, taking my grandchildren to Jazz and food concert "Taste of Cartersville." (Ga.). will be back about 9pm. everything closes up early here.LOL:blowkiss:Nonni

BTW, leashing all the grandchildren to my belt so no one will snatch them. They are ages 12 13 14 14. Hope they like Jazz.

 

[snapdragon]

The website of the church wasn't updated for a very long time. It was an old one and obviously not accessed much by anyone in the church. There was a single comment left dating back to 2008...IIRC (from the Pastor's cousin trying to track him down?).

The member page had never been put together and posted...or at least by the looks of it when I saw it.

Again..where did we get the church only had 15 members?

SS- I am the one who said 15 members. I heard this on a news report at some point.. not sure if it was F. William's who said it or not. It was not verified by Pastor Lawless, who has said very little. I watched so many media reports after they found the body, that I can't remember where I heard it. But it did stick in my mind. I will try to find a reference to it.

Here is an excerpt from the Tracy Press re: the church and Lawless. I will attach the link as well:

"But the Clover Road Baptist Church seems as physically isolated from the rest of the city, one of the last buildings on a dead-end street, as it seems culturally set apart from other churches in town.

Several Tracy pastors said they don’t know that much about Lawless; he doesn’t join the 15 or 20 other pastors in town for Thursday prayer breakfasts.

Tim Heinrich of the Crossroads Baptist Church said Lawless declines to network with fellow pastors in town. Other pastors said the church has few events and focuses on church history because it disagrees with some of the tenets of others churches.

No one in the neighborhood surrounding Orchard Estates said they attend the Baptist church — surrounded now by yellow crime-scene tape. About a dozen neighbors said they don’t know anyone who does and that it has a tiny congregation.

Folks from a Jehovah’s Witness church across the street from Clover Road Baptist said they've never talked to anyone from the congregation. Pastors, members and elders of a handful of other churches in northern Tracy said the same thing."

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/ful...as police look for clues =&widget=push&open=&

 

[snapdragon]

Just a note:

Keep in mind when you visit newspaper sites online and view their posted stories, that you are not seeing what comes out in the actual paper in its entirety. They tend to post the most popular sections/stories online. The paper actually contains more, such as editorials not on the web, smaller stories, etc.

 

[snapdragon]

SS,

I found it! It actually is quoted as "20 or so members" not 15. I did hear 15 somewhere else, but this is the only thing I can find reference to. It is a quote from Joanie Hughes, who idendifies herself as the daughter of Lane and Connie Lawless:


The church has a small congregation, only 20 or so members, Hughes said.

Here's the reference- http://m.contracostatimes.com/contr...CoM2ven&storycount=14&detailindex=4&full=true

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks for verifying, Snap! I just wanted to make certain we had our facts right on the subject.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I cant remember that either. I'll go back and search. Cant now though, taking my grandchildren to Jazz and food concert "Taste of Cartersville." (Ga.). will be back about 9pm. everything closes up early here.LOL:blowkiss:Nonni

Off Topic: I love Jazz festivals!! I am jealous now. Hope you and the grands have a great time. (Will ya bring me a funnel cake and a beer?!)

 

[JoeFromLB]

SS,

I found it! It actually is quoted as "20 or so members" not 15. I did hear 15 somewhere else, but this is the only thing I can find reference to. It is a quote from Joanie Hughes, who idendifies herself as the daughter of Lane and Connie Lawless:


The church has a small congregation, only 20 or so members, Hughes said.

Here's the reference- http://m.contracostatimes.com/contr...CoM2ven&storycount=14&detailindex=4&full=true

Thanks for posting that. I was about to post that and some more things I found when my internet connection went down a few hours ago.
But now it's back up, and here goes:

The home page of the church's website has nothing but a Bible quote, but I did a little digging and found some of the other links on that site. Here they are:

Pastor's bio:
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/Pastor1.html

Schedule of services:
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/Church_services.htm

Members page (empty):
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/members.htm

And a link which you'll see named "T.O.B." which takes you to a strange chart called "Trail of Blood" (how ironic a title!), which is apparently what this pastor believes and teaches. It's an odd belief (to me, at least) that the Baptists go all the way back to 251 A.D. and the chart is a repudiation of both Catholics AND Protestants. How do you like that!

http://www.biblepreaching.com/chart.html

(This link came up when I clicked on "T.O.B.")

Curiouser and curiouser...

 

[snapdragon]

Off Topic: I love Jazz festivals!! I am jealous now. Hope you and the grands have a great time. (Will ya bring me a funnel cake and a beer?!)

OT: I'm jealous too! Bring me a nice glass of chardonnay (it's 85 deg here!!)

 

[JoeFromLB]

One more link, from the Sunday School. Apparently the lessons stopped in February, 2002.

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/SUNDAY_SCHOOL.htm

 

[snapdragon]

SS is correct in a prior post that we need to remember that there are no other suspects or accomplices at this time. I am not proposing that the Lawless family was involved in this murder, but rather just looking at their lifestyle/beliefs.

I, too, have looked at their site. They shun almost every other church. I looked at the Trail of Blood. Interesting. I actually work with a guy who belongs to a church in Modesto, CA. The weird thing is that his church is basically just family members, and a few others. They have some pretty weird ideas about life and death, and I have always thought this guy more than a little "strange". The clover rd baptist church is reminding me a lot of this guy's church....

Not to offend, but these people seem just a bit WHACKADOODLE!

 

[JoeFromLB]

It seems the pastor was ordained by the "Winton MBC" in 1971. I'm assuming the MBC stands for "Missionary Baptist Church". A preliminary search of the Web turns up nothing specific under that name. There are some other Baptist churches in Winton, N.C., but not this one.

I'll keep searching.

btw., he was baptized in 1960 by his father-in-law, according to his Bio page.

 

[txsvicki]

Thanks for posting that. I was about to post that and some more things I found when my internet connection went down a few hours ago.
But now it's back up, and here goes:

The home page of the church's website has nothing but a Bible quote, but I did a little digging and found some of the other links on that site. Here they are:

Pastor's bio:
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/Pastor1.html

Schedule of services:
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/Church_services.htm

Members page (empty):
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/members.htm

And a link which you'll see named "T.O.B." which takes you to a strange chart called "Trail of Blood" (how ironic a title!), which is apparently what this pastor believes and teaches. It's an odd belief (to me, at least) that the Baptists go all the way back to 251 A.D. and the chart is a repudiation of both Catholics AND Protestants. How do you like that!

http://www.biblepreaching.com/chart.html

(This link came up when I clicked on "T.O.B.")

Curiouser and curiouser...

It's not that odd really. I was a member of a Fundamentalist Baptist Church and I used to have the Trail of Blood booklet. It's also is a sad little book to read because it shows the history of so many people who were percecuted and murdered over the centuries for having the Anabaptist type beliefs, and refused to baptize their infants. They also only believe the KJV is the only authorized by God version of the Bible. I can see why he doesn't meet with the other pastors because they don't join associations, and it's not really a popular church that would grow. The Pastor was there 30 years, his congregation probably got old, and no newer members. They really don't focus on big new buildings and coming up with entertainments type services to attract people. Also, it's not that weird or horribly strict church that could have contributed to Melissa's problems, other than maybe not allowing her to wear pants. This church may be another branch, but it sure sounds Fundamentalist. My aunt was a member of a Missionary Baptist Church, and I used to enjoy visiting her church as a child. It wasn't as strict as my church because they did wear pants and I believe read other versions of the Bible. If this is the one, then Melissa's church growing up wasn't weird or all that strict.

 

[passionflower]

SS is correct in a prior post that we need to remember that there are no other suspects or accomplices at this time. I am not proposing that the Lawless family was involved in this murder, but rather just looking at their lifestyle/beliefs.

I, too, have looked at their site. They shun almost every other church. I looked at the Trail of Blood. Interesting. I actually work with a guy who belongs to a church in Modesto, CA. The weird thing is that his church is basically just family members, and a few others. They have some pretty weird ideas about life and death, and I have always thought this guy more than a little "strange". The clover rd baptist church is reminding me a lot of this guy's church....

Not to offend, but these people seem just a bit WHACKADOODLE!

IMO, cult like...........

 

[passionflower]

IMO, the church is the 'key' or the 'core' of all of this...........going back 30 years ago.
Teachings, how Connie/Lane raised their family, where and why did the original congregation leave?
Why does no one talk about 'their' church?
How big was the church in it's prime time?
The money to keep building going?
MH lies about Sunday school room and teaching.........Connie? Lane know these lies?
So many unanswered questions on a church that seems like it really doesn't serve it's purpose anymore.........IMO

 

[txsvicki]

IMO, cult like...........

To some they may be cult like, but they also helped us to gain freedom to have any religion we want and separation of church and state here in America. Many Baptists who immigrated from Europe here to the Colonies where viciously whipped, heavily fined, imprisoned, and banished. One pastor was banished to live with the Indians and went on to save the colony from Indian attack when he pled for them.

 

[JoeFromLB]

IMO, the church is the 'key' or the 'core' of all of this...........going back 30 years ago.
Teachings, how Connie/Lane raised their family, where and why did the original congregation leave?
Why does no one talk about 'their' church?
How big was the church in it's prime time?
The money to keep building going?
MH lies about Sunday school room and teaching.........Connie? Lane know these lies?
So many unanswered questions on a church that seems like it really doesn't serve it's purpose anymore.........IMO

All very good questions, IMO.

 

[snapdragon]

IMO, the church is the 'key' or the 'core' of all of this...........going back 30 years ago.
Teachings, how Connie/Lane raised their family, where and why did the original congregation leave?
Why does no one talk about 'their' church?
How big was the church in it's prime time?
The money to keep building going?
MH lies about Sunday school room and teaching.........Connie? Lane know these lies?
So many unanswered questions on a church that seems like it really doesn't serve it's purpose anymore.........IMO

Weird , yes. But, in and of itself, did not cause a woman to rape and murder a child. I don't believe that.

My opinion of clover rd baptist church??? TAX SHELTER!

 

[Nonni Brenda]

Off Topic: I love Jazz festivals!! I am jealous now. Hope you and the grands have a great time. (Will ya bring me a funnel cake and a beer?!)

SS, wish you could have been there. We're a relatively small town, so had only 1 band, but they were absolutely wonderful. The grands didn't want to try the food there (Micky D's is their favorite), so I talked them into going to Longhorn's, then we went back for more music. Sorry OT everyone. BTW, no one got lost or stolen. I lived in Atlanta about 10 yrs. Taste of Atlanta was the real place to be. Time of my life!

 

[Nonni Brenda]

OT: I'm jealous too! Bring me a nice glass of chardonnay (it's 85 deg here!!)

This sounds wonderful. Seems now adays I spend all my time with the young set, although my 14 yr old g-sons think they are 21.LOL

 

[paperwing]

Is there any significance to the designation of Missionary and/or Independent (per the Church's sign)?

I don't know, maybe it doesn't mean anything... but maybe such a designation means a less traditional setting.

I have read that MH was a volunteer Sunday School teacher (and choir member) at her (uncle's?) church in Bellflower, not the Clover Rd church - but that was early on and I don't see any reference to it elsewhere so I guess that was dismissed as inaccurate. LE will be able to easily determine whether or not there were actual Sun Sch. classes being held at the nearby church or not - doesn't seem as though there was much activity going on there.

Would a church have ongoing Sun Sch. but no services for 2 years? Odd.