The Church?

[SeriouslySearching]

Is there any significance to the designation of Missionary and/or Independent (per the Church's sign)?

I don't know, maybe it doesn't mean anything... but maybe such a designation means a less traditional setting.

I have read that MH was a volunteer Sunday School teacher (and choir member) at her (uncle's?) church in Bellflower, not the Clover Rd church - but that was early on and I don't see any reference to it elsewhere so I guess that was dismissed as inaccurate. LE will be able to easily determine whether or not there were actual Sun Sch. classes being held at the nearby church or not - doesn't seem as though there was much activity going on there.

Would a church have ongoing Sun Sch. but no services for 2 years? Odd.

That report was inaccurate. The church that was mentioned was her father's church which is hours away. LE did determine (they have made statements to this) she was a Sunday School teacher at her grandfather's church which is Clover Baptist and where it is believed that Sandra was murdered.

 

[paperwing]

Thanks, SeriouslySearching - makes sense that was a false rumor.

 

[passionflower]

To some they may be cult like, but they also helped us to gain freedom to have any religion we want and separation of church and state here in America. Many Baptists who immigrated from Europe here to the Colonies where viciously whipped, heavily fined, imprisoned, and banished. One pastor was banished to live with the Indians and went on to save the colony from Indian attack when he pled for them.

I am not knocking any church or religion.........just the fact that I don't think this is a REAL church with REAL religion NOW. After the congregation left,
I wonder what happened NOW........last 2 years!

 

[Winnow]

Okay, this is second, third, fourth hand -- whatever...

It is an interesting quote from the Tracy Press "comments" section:


"« djds wrote on Saturday, Apr 18 at 02:36 PM »
I agree.. that something's 'off' about her whole family..(MH's). Like someone stated prior that lived in the same park.. that 'when they walked into that church one day that the grandfather runs, that 'everybody stared at them like they seen a ghost'. Seems kind of weird to me? Only about 15 or so 'members'? and they were a closed off bunch I heard? seems strange.. something isn't right there....."

 

[Columbo]

So she was a Sunday School teacher at Clover Road Baptist Church...but that had to be a few years back, since they discontinued Sunday School classes years ago?

So don't you think the Lawless family would have been scratching their heads at Melissa's claim that she had a suitcase full of supplies to use in a Sunday School class? (hopefully i have the story straight here, that is what she claimed, right?)

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Can anyone tell me where it states they don't have Sunday School at Clover Baptist Church? The website is very old and hasn't been updated for eons. If there is another location which states their hours etc., I would like to see it.

 

[passionflower]

okay, this is second, third, fourth hand -- whatever...

It is an interesting quote from the tracy press "comments" section:


"« djds wrote on saturday, apr 18 at 02:36 pm »
i agree.. That something's 'off' about her whole family..(mh's). Like someone stated prior that lived in the same park.. That 'when they walked into that church one day that the grandfather runs, that 'everybody stared at them like they seen a ghost'. Seems kind of weird to me? Only about 15 or so 'members'? And they were a closed off bunch i heard? Seems strange.. Something isn't right there....."

wow!!!!

 

[Columbo]

Can anyone tell me where it states they don't have Sunday School at Clover Baptist Church? The website is very old and hasn't been updated for eons. If there is another location which states their hours etc., I would like to see it.

Hi -- I may be getting confused, but I was sure I read among the posts somewhere that Sunday School had been discontinued at Clover Baptist Church. I thought the poster said it was in 2002? I apologize if I have made an erroneous statement....Maybe I read it wrong.

See post # 120. Questions whether a church with hardly any services would have Sun School classes. I know this doesn't prove what I was driving at in my previous post, so I'll keep looking. Maybe the info I saw was on a different thread. Again, I really apologize if I'm wrong because I don't want to start false rumors here...

 

[JoeFromLB]

So she was a Sunday School teacher at Clover Road Baptist Church...but that had to be a few years back, since they discontinued Sunday School classes years ago?

So don't you think the Lawless family would have been scratching their heads at Melissa's claim that she had a suitcase full of supplies to use in a Sunday School class? (hopefully i have the story straight here, that is what she claimed, right?)

Yes, that's what she claimed. I believe she told that story to a reporter.
You make a very good point about the suitcase supposedly full of classroom supplies. I hope LE has a good handle on this whole area, there are some real mysteries here.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Can anyone tell me where it states they don't have Sunday School at Clover Baptist Church? The website is very old and hasn't been updated for eons. If there is another location which states their hours etc., I would like to see it.

Their current home page has nothing but a Bible quote. I had to search around for awhile to find the other pages on the site.

Services:
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/Church_services.htm

Pastor's Bio:
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/Pastor1.html

Members (empty):
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/members.htm

Sunday School lessons (stops in Feb.2002):
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/SUNDAY_SCHOOL.htm

Events ("Sorry, Area under construction"):
http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/events.htm

Sunday "Bible Study" is scheduled for 10:30 AM, according to the site.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Hi -- I may be getting confused, but I was sure I read among the posts somewhere that Sunday School had been discontinued at Clover Baptist Church. I thought the poster said it was in 2002? I apologize if I have made an erroneous statement....Maybe I read it wrong.

See post # 120. Questions whether a church with hardly any services would have Sun School classes. I know this doesn't prove what I was driving at in my previous post, so I'll keep looking. Maybe the info I saw was on a different thread. Again, I really apologize if I'm wrong because I don't want to start false rumors here...

I don't know about the Sunday school itself, but the lessons listed on the webite only go up to February, 2002:

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/SUNDAY_SCHOOL.htm

Of course, the website itself may not have been updated since that time, for whatever reasons, so that doesn't necessarily prove the classes haven't met since then.

 

[Kat]

I wasn't sure which thread to put this thought, so I picked here.

We only have MH's description of where the suitcase was, she says it was at the mobile home and that she had left it in the driveway packed with decorations?

Why do we assume she is telling the media the truth about the suitcase being there?

I was wondering why the shed was searched. Could the luggage have been stored there? Because Mobile homes don't have a whole lot of storage area do they? I would imagine that the Pastor and his wife have storage that is already being used by their things...so where would MH store her extra's? Just a thought.

 

[Columbo]

I don't know about the Sunday school itself, but the lessons listed on the webite only go up to February, 2002:

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/SUNDAY_SCHOOL.htm

Of course, the website itself may not have been updated since that time, for whatever reasons, so that doesn't necessarily prove the classes haven't met since then.

Thanks, Joe! This must be the source of my second-hand information--I'm not sure who posted that there had been no Sunday School since 2002, but they must have gotten their idea from the church website. So maybe it's true, maybe not. As you say, maybe the website was just not up-to-date.

 

[claudicici]

....i read the last lesson of the sunday school classes and i found it quite interesting.i did not know baptists were so against catholics and do not consider them christian.
do we know what religion sandra was ?

 

[simlyme]

....i read the last lesson of the sunday school classes and i found it quite interesting.i did not know baptists were so against catholics and do not consider them christian.
do we know what religion sandra was ?

Hi people ,this is my first post,but ,Ive been following from the beginning.

This "church" is Missionary Baptist, Ive been searching a while about this branch of Baptists as I feel religion it is a big factor in this case.

So far I find these people strange, they seem like a very secretive type creature.
To me, a 15-20 member "church" is a cult.:furious:

 

[Kat]

:balloons: Welcome to websleuths simlyme!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

....i read the last lesson of the sunday school classes and i found it quite interesting.i did not know baptists were so against catholics and do not consider them christian.
do we know what religion sandra was ?

Missionary Baptist

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hi people ,this is my first post,but ,Ive been following from the beginning.

This "church" is Missionary Baptist, Ive been searching a while about this branch of Baptists as I feel religion it is a big factor in this case.

So far I find these people strange, they seem like a very secretive type creature.
To me, a 15-20 member "church" is a cult.:furious:

Welcome Simlyme

Are Missionary Baptist autonomous and each church has its own governing rules?

1: of, relating to, or marked by autonomy
2 a: having the right or power of self-government b: undertaken or carried on without outside control : self-contained <an autonomous school system>
3 a: existing or capable of existing independently <an autonomous zooid> b: responding, reacting, or developing independently of the whole <an autonomous growth>
4: controlled by the autonomic nervous system

I know the Church of Christ is that way.

I am not sure if religion played any part in this case.

It was a small church and Pastor Lawless was getting on up in age. 77 years old if iirc. So he may have retired or semi retired and the congregants that had been a member of that church for over 30 years may have wanted to keep the church open but more as a bible study church.

imo

 

[JoeFromLB]

Missionary Baptist

Are you sure? I have read that Sandra's family were NOT members of the Clover Road Missionary Baptist Church, and that's the only "Missionary Baptist" church anywhere around there, to my knowledge.
Sandra's uncle, Joe Chavez, is Catholic. Joe is the brother of Maria Chavez, Sandra's mother.

Now whether Sandra was going to some kind of "Bible study" at the church, and the specific details of this Bible study, are open questions.

 

[claudicici]

...that's what i was suspecting,if sandra was catholic,then mh thought of her as not being christian,maybe just maybe religion could have played a part ?