The Church?

[SeriouslySearching]

Hi -- I may be getting confused, but I was sure I read among the posts somewhere that Sunday School had been discontinued at Clover Baptist Church. I thought the poster said it was in 2002? I apologize if I have made an erroneous statement....Maybe I read it wrong.

See post # 120. Questions whether a church with hardly any services would have Sun School classes. I know this doesn't prove what I was driving at in my previous post, so I'll keep looking. Maybe the info I saw was on a different thread. Again, I really apologize if I'm wrong because I don't want to start false rumors here...

This is what I am talking about...the website had not been updated or used for a very long time...so we don't know the current status of Sunday School sessions or anything else. We can't go by a site that old for information.

 

[snapdragon]

Are you sure? I have read that Sandra's family were NOT members of the Clover Road Missionary Baptist Church, and that's the only "Missionary Baptist" church anywhere around there, to my knowledge.
Sandra's uncle, Joe Chavez, is Catholic. Joe is the brother of Maria Chavez, Sandra's mother.

Now whether Sandra was going to some kind of "Bible study" at the church, and the specific details of this Bible study, are open questions.

You are correct. It has been stated in the press that Sandra and her family were NOT members or participants in the Clover Road Baptist Church. It was stated that Sandra was supposed to go to bible study the evening she went missing, but it was at a different church. That church was never named.

Tracy has a large number of protestant based churches, ie: christian, non-catholic, non-mormon. Many are non-denominational. Most protestant based churches disagree with mormanism and catholicism. This is because they believe in exactly what the bible says, and worship Jesus as the savior directly. Mormans have an interpretation based on the Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith. Catholics worship saints and idols, and have rules made by the Pope. These are the basic reasons most protestant based faiths shun these other religions.

 

[simlyme]

Missionary Baptist

I dont think Sandra Cantu's family was missionary baptist.

I believe they were Catholic.

 

[simlyme]

Catholics worship saints and idols, and have rules made by the Pope. These are the basic reasons most protestant based faiths shun these other religions.

I was afraid to enter this discussion for this reason.

Catholics do not worship Saints and idols. They worship God,(Jesus Christ ) as far as Saints, they pray to Saints, a Catholic is a Christian.
Religion is way too contraversial for me to get into. I believe that will be a big reason for that not being brought up in the trial,but, I still believe it has a lot to do with what MH:furious: did to that precious Angel.

 

[claudicici]

wow,i never was aware that other christians do not consider catholic christians,that's the first i heard that....and yes if mh was fanatically religious maybe that did play a part

 

[JoeFromLB]

You are correct. It has been stated in the press that Sandra and her family were NOT members or participants in the Clover Road Baptist Church. It was stated that Sandra was supposed to go to bible study the evening she went missing, but it was at a different church. That church was never named.

Tracy has a large number of protestant based churches, ie: christian, non-catholic, non-mormon. Many are non-denominational. Most protestant based churches disagree with mormanism and catholicism. This is because they believe in exactly what the bible says, and worship Jesus as the savior directly. Mormans have an interpretation based on the Book of Mormon by Joseph Smith. Catholics worship saints and idols, and have rules made by the Pope. These are the basic reasons most protestant based faiths shun these other religions.

Well, I'm a Catholic, and let me assure you, we most certainly do NOT worship saints or idols. I'll leave it at that, since this is not a religion thread, and I've "been there, done that" too many times to count on other message boards.

But I do enjoy the company of my Websleuth friends, whether they be Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, or any other denomination.

 

[Kat]

I was afraid to enter this discussion for this reason.

Catholics do not worship Saints and idols. They worship God,(Jesus Christ ) as far as Saints, they pray to Saints, a Catholic is a Christian.
Religion is way too contraversial for me to get into. I believe that will be a big reason for that not being brought up in the trial,but, I still believe it has a lot to do with what MH:furious: did to that precious Angel.

I respect your opinion and thoughts, simlyme. We all have gut feelings about Sandra's case. Not all of us agree, but that is what makes WS interesting don't you think? I, personally, haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that the motive included a religious facet, but who knows at this point?

O/T I'm 47, I grew up in a predominately catholic neighborhood but was and am not Catholic. I can remember back in the 60's being taught by loving family members that Catholics worship what was stated above, now I know it's not true but it's a common misconception that is still perpetrated.

BTW good morning everyone

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Are you sure? I have read that Sandra's family were NOT members of the Clover Road Missionary Baptist Church, and that's the only "Missionary Baptist" church anywhere around there, to my knowledge.
Sandra's uncle, Joe Chavez, is Catholic. Joe is the brother of Maria Chavez, Sandra's mother.

Now whether Sandra was going to some kind of "Bible study" at the church, and the specific details of this Bible study, are open questions.

Oh, I am sorry, Joe. I guess I misunderstood. I thought someone was wanting to know what kind of church Lawless was a Pastor of.....

I am not sure about Sandra but when her aunt was speaking at the Memorial I got the impression they were Catholic.

Again, sorry for steering anyone wrong about the Missionary Baptist church the Lawless family attends.

imo

 

[Columbo]

This is what I am talking about...the website had not been updated or used for a very long time...so we don't know the current status of Sunday School sessions or anything else. We can't go by a site that old for information.

Thanks, Seriously Searching.

 

[Columbo]

I am from Tracy. This is unlikely. The story here locally is that no one seems to know much about the church. There is a Jehovah's witness church across the street, and some of their members were interviewed in the press. They stated that they did not ever really see anyone over there, nor had they spoken to anyone at the Clover rd baptist church. Same thing with neighbors to the church.. no one really saw anyone going there.

Supposedly, they haven't had regular services since 2007. Local papers have cited their congregation at being around 15 in number (I have no idea where that number came from). Local pastors in town have said that Pastor Lawless "isolated" himself from the Tracy church community. He was invited on numerous occasions to local church leaders' socials and never attended.

I am thinking it was a TAX SHELTER.

Hi Snapdragon, is it a fact that they haven't had services since 2007? If so, then I wonder why they would need a Sunday School teacher.

Great thinking! I bet it is a TAX SHELTER! Maybe that's another reason why Pastor Lawless was acting hinky.

 

[Track292008]

Has anyone here researched the records to determine the listed owner of the property where the Clover Rd. church is located?

If so, I missed it and I'm sorry and hope it can be re-posted here.

If not, can some who is savvy about this type of thing look into it? Also, the taxes paid would be interesting!

Many thanks.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

LE has obviously checked into the innerworkings of this church to know what is taking place there. If there is something else going on unrelated to Sandra, they already are in a position to stop it.

I imagine they would have spoken with people who attend the church on a regular basis and determined Melissa was a Sunday School teacher before announcing it to the world. At least, I would hope so! They appear to be on top of things in Tracy so at this point, I am trusting they did their homework.

 

[MCDRAW]

Hi people ,this is my first post,but ,Ive been following from the beginning.

This "church" is Missionary Baptist, Ive been searching a while about this branch of Baptists as I feel religion it is a big factor in this case.

So far I find these people strange, they seem like a very secretive type creature.
To me, a 15-20 member "church" is a cult.:furious:

Ok, I attend a very small church. We are certainly not a cult! There are just not a lot of people that live around the church. I believe you have to look at more than church numbers before you decide it's a cult.

 

[MCDRAW]

wow,i never was aware that other christians do not consider catholic christians,that's the first i heard that....and yes if mh was fanatically religious maybe that did play a part

That's the first I have heard of it too. In my opinion, if MH was fanatically religious, she wouldn't have been stealing from Target.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Has anyone here researched the records to determine the listed owner of the property where the Clover Rd. church is located?

If so, I missed it and I'm sorry and hope it can be re-posted here.

If not, can some who is savvy about this type of thing look into it? Also, the taxes paid would be interesting!

Many thanks.

I don't know who owns the church property, but it's not Pastor Lawless.
According to the Tracy Press, the only property he owns in San Joaquin County is his mobile home, and he has owned that since the mid-1960's.

 

[Columbo]

That's the first I have heard of it too. In my opinion, if MH was fanatically religious, she wouldn't have been stealing from Target.

I totally agree with you, and yet, it's amazing how many so-called religious people do some really terrible things.

 

[Track292008]

I don't know who owns the church property, but it's not Pastor Lawless.
According to the Tracy Press, the only property he owns in San Joaquin County is his mobile home, and he has owned that since the mid-1960's.

That's a good start on the answer to the question, "Who owns the property where the church is located?" Thanks, Joe!

And it also adds another factor to any discussion of the church in this matter. JMO

 

[twinkiesmom]

To me, a 15-20 member "church" is a cult.:furious:

No, it's not. There are plenty of tiny churches in this country that are perfectly normal but not very successful (in terms of dollars or attendance). Some just don't recruit new members, and the old members age and die off (as I suspect has happened with Pastor Lawless' congregation). Some are set in their ways....Some don't have a great plan for drawing in new people. Some are led by people who just aren't great ministers but are otherwise nice, decent people. Not everyone is cut out to be a pastor.

 

[simlyme]

No, it's not. There are plenty of tiny churches in this country that are perfectly normal but not very successful (in terms of dollars or attendance). Some just don't recruit new members, and the old members age and die off (as I suspect has happened with Pastor Lawless' congregation). Some are set in their ways....Some don't have a great plan for drawing in new people. Some are led by people who just aren't great ministers but are otherwise nice, decent people. Not everyone is cut out to be a pastor.

I understand, to each his/her own. But, I still feel this "church" is not a church per se.
If we want to think,loving,caring,respect,nurturing,ETC. about a church,and its members, do we see that in Clover Road missionary Baptist church?

This article and a few others say:
http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.slaying.2.983211.html

(On Sunday, outside the church after Easter services, Huckaby's relatives described her as a loving mother with a strong religious upbringing.)

Strong religious upbringing? HUH?

Are the Huckabys and Lawless strong religious people? Their demeanor is disgraceful, did they ever help search for Sandra? Best friend of MH daughter and best friend of Lawless grand-daughter. They're all ruthless in my book.

Wouldnt a "church" so close to the home of this missing child put effort into the search.
Im disgusted!:curses:

Lawless religion is all relevant in this case:furious:
Oh, I know the devil made her do it?

PREACH TO THE CHOIR, Milissa Lawless Huckaby:behindbar

 

[ChristineD]

What I can't figure out is what kind of people have a church service at the probable murder site and have no problem with that? If sociopaths have no feeling for others, maybe there is a tinge of that in more than just MH.