The Couple Who Say They Can Prove JonBenet Ramsey’s Murder Was Covered Up

[BoldBear]

What brand douche did Patsy use, Hello Kitty or My Little Pony? Are they pediatric sized? I doubt it ever happened but consider the possibility it was floated as a rumor to provide a reason for the vaginal trauma and damage. The Ramseys did believe they would be arrested after the Grand Jury, as in somebody leaked the results to them (Pete). They did believe there would be a trial. Just another part of the cover-up.

IMO it's all a cover up. Hide what Burke did that night by bashing in her head and hide the sexual molestation of the young half siblings by the teenage JAR.

It's called an enema bag. It's available at drug stores and it's very common.

I haven't seen a source where the Ramseys have suggested this. Jonbenet's pediatrician suggested that her chronic vaginal trauma may have come from a bubble bath. That insults everyone's intelligence and no one bought it. It was argued as a possible reason for the chronic vaginal trauma that occurred days before her death.

 

[887sMtreme]

Bubble baths can cause vaginal irritation that can lead to infections, though not trauma. Urinary tract infections (UTIs), which I seem to remember Dr. Beuf had treated JBR for, can be aggravated not only by bubble baths but also physical irritation and fecal contamination. JBR was known to have "wiping" issues which might have contributed to both kinds of problems. One source of physical irritation can be digital exploration -- especially if the finger(s) are unclean or rough -- of the vulva and vagina, especially if the area is not prepared with some kind of lubricant. Naturally, objects like the paintbrush handle or other object could produce some of this type of irritation.

Although many women used them for douching, enema bags were not the ideal thing to use back when douching was considered a good idea. When hung up on a shower hook or something, the flow of liquid could be dangerously forceful and difficult to control. More common were small hand-held bags with the same type of tools attached to the "business end." To introduce the liquid into the vagina, the user would gently squeeze the bag until it was empty, then let the liquid drain out of the body.

If PR douched JBR with the idea of hoping to treat some sort of infection, and if she used the apparatus you've shown us above, she might have used the small rectal tool from the kit rather than the larger device. That one has holes all over the end that can be a little scratchy. If she used that on JBR, it could most certainly have caused the evidence of trauma noted in the autopsy report.

TMI for many of you, I know. Sorry abut that.

 

[Tadpole12]

IDK
The nozzle is cylindrical, so wouldn't the abrasion pattern be consistent
along the circumferential of the hymen, rather than the notable patern
of erosion at 2 and 10 o'clock positions, indicative of digital penetration?

 

[BoldBear]

IDK
The nozzle is cylindrical, so wouldn't the abrasion pattern be consistent
along the circumferential of the hymen, rather than the notable patern
of erosion at 2 and 10 o'clock positions, indicative of digital penetration?

No, but an itchy and irritating infection could have caused that. JB could have also not been very cooperative so Patsy could have been forceful. We don't know how those injuries were caused.

Without any further evidence, this falls under 1) self exploration/masturbation 2) caregiver inflicted or 3) a sex act. Sexual predators often go for the more quiet children. Jonbenet wasn't exactly quiet. She had access to her school's nurse--one-on-one private contact with a caregiver. She had one-on-one lessons with a high school aged girl she trusted. She stayed with grandma and grandpa. I understand that children can be manipulated not to talk, but given the fact that JB was around people she trusted one-on-one, she could have easily talked to someone. She could have also kept secrets.

For those reasons, I won't be sold on any reasons for the chronic abrasions. No one here has had a conversation with her coroner and as far as I know, the coroner's opinion was being withheld for court. Some experts chimed-in, but as with courtroom experts, there's always an expert on the opposite side to provide their expert testimony.

The next question is if the chronic irritation was in any way connected to her murder. It wouldn't unless she was murdered to cover up sexual abuse. That's a possibility, but if Patsy killed her in a rage because she wet the bed, then the sexual abuse cover-up doesn't apply. If Burke got mad and struck her over the head, it probably wasn't about a sexual abuse cover-up.

I chimed in on the douching because it was being dismissed as stupid and not worthy of consideration. I completely disagree. Patsy lied about lightening her daughter's hair. If she thought she was caring for her daughter, then she'd do it. Nedra could have done it to her when she was a child. She may have seen nothing wrong with it. It was just another secret you didn't share with the neighbors. "Then it wouldn't be a secret."

 

[Tadpole12]

No, but an itchy and irritating infection could have caused that. JB could have also not been very cooperative so Patsy could have been forceful. We don't know how those injuries were caused.

Without any further evidence, this falls under 1) self exploration/masturbation 2) caregiver inflicted or 3) a sex act. Sexual predators often go for the more quiet children. Jonbenet wasn't exactly quiet. She had access to her school's nurse--one-on-one private contact with a caregiver. She had one-on-one lessons with a high school aged girl she trusted. She stayed with grandma and grandpa. I understand that children can be manipulated not to talk, but given the fact that JB was around people she trusted one-on-one, she could have easily talked to someone. She could have also kept secrets.

For those reasons, I won't be sold on any reasons for the chronic abrasions. No one here has had a conversation with her coroner and as far as I know, the coroner's opinion was being withheld for court. Some experts chimed-in, but as with courtroom experts, there's always an expert on the opposite side to provide their expert testimony.

The next question is if the chronic irritation was in any way connected to her murder. It wouldn't unless she was murdered to cover up sexual abuse. That's a possibility, but if Patsy killed her in a rage because she wet the bed, then the sexual abuse cover-up doesn't apply. If Burke got mad and struck her over the head, it probably wasn't about a sexual abuse cover-up.

I chimed in on the douching because it was being dismissed as stupid and not worthy of consideration. I completely disagree. Patsy lied about lightening her daughter's hair. If she thought she was caring for her daughter, then she'd do it. Nedra could have done it to her when she was a child. She may have seen nothing wrong with it. It was just another secret you didn't share with the neighbors. "Then it wouldn't be a secret."

Thanks Bb
I better understand your perspective wrt autopsy findings

 

[questfortrue]

Unfortunately, I don’t believe any of us know with certainty the intent of the person who injured her internally. As otg mentioned in another dialog, one simply cannot define the intent of someone assaulting JonBenét or douching her. None of us can say, for example, if it was for vindictive reasons, for sexual gratification, for well-meaning intent by douching her, or for corporal punishment.

I’m going to post some other definitions regards her injuries on a different thread. Hopefully, it won’t bore readers to pieces, but there is much which hasn’t been brought forward. Part of my goal is simply to place a frame around the conclusion of the entire family that the crime was done by a pedophile.

Larry King Live March 27, 2000
KING: Did you ever think -- of course, what can you think at a time like this -- why would someone send a ransom note to kidnap someone and then kill them and leave them in the same house if the purpose is to get money?
J. RAMSEY: Well, Larry, this person is a madman, is a monster, they don't think logically.
KING: Pedophile?
J. RAMSEY: We think it was a pedophile, we think it was a male. There are several key pieces of evidence that we think will lead us to the killer, male, pedophile.
~snip~
KING: If it was a pedophile, was your daughter sexually abused?
P. RAMSEY: I don't believe there is conclusive evidence of that.
J. RAMSEY: We don't know.

 

[UKGuy]

Unfortunately, I don’t believe any of us know with certainty the intent of the person who injured her internally. As otg mentioned in another dialog, one simply cannot define the intent of someone assaulting JonBenét or douching her. None of us can say, for example, if it was for vindictive reasons, for sexual gratification, for well-meaning intent by douching her, or for corporal punishment.

I’m going to post some other definitions regards her injuries on a different thread. Hopefully, it won’t bore readers to pieces, but there is much which hasn’t been brought forward. Part of my goal is simply to place a frame around the conclusion of the entire family that the crime was done by a pedophile.

Larry King Live March 27, 2000
KING: Did you ever think -- of course, what can you think at a time like this -- why would someone send a ransom note to kidnap someone and then kill them and leave them in the same house if the purpose is to get money?
J. RAMSEY: Well, Larry, this person is a madman, is a monster, they don't think logically.
KING: Pedophile?
J. RAMSEY: We think it was a pedophile, we think it was a male. There are several key pieces of evidence that we think will lead us to the killer, male, pedophile.
~snip~
KING: If it was a pedophile, was your daughter sexually abused?
P. RAMSEY: I don't believe there is conclusive evidence of that.
J. RAMSEY: We don't know.

questfortrue,

KING: If it was a pedophile, was your daughter sexually abused?
P. RAMSEY: I don't believe there is conclusive evidence of that.
J. RAMSEY: We don't know.

Do the parents have to say that becuase they are not supposed to know, Patsy refers to inconclusive evidence, so if they staged it as an abduction and sexual assault, why not play along with Larry King, and say yeah she was molested , she was bleeding, etc?

.

 

[TeaTime]

questfortrue,

Do the parents have to say that becuase they are not supposed to know, Patsy refers to inconclusive evidence, so if they staged it as an abduction and sexual assault, why not play along with Larry King, and say yeah she was molested , she was bleeding, etc?

.

Because it is incest?

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6eezl3

tyc7

 

[UKGuy]

Because it is incest?

TeaTime,
If thats the case then patently the family will be in denial. Yet despite the R's exclusive access to forensic evidence reports, the autopsy, etc.

They were both saying live on air, sexual assault: No Conclusive Evidence and We Do Not Know !

Maybe if they went there, and accepted a pedophile did it, someone else might accuse JR of it?

.