The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 17th June - Trial Day 5 - Week 2

[spratsmum]

So the scratches made by a tree branch perhaps, they would have hurt. If they had been made by a tree branch, I think I would have gone to the doctor to see they weren't going to get infected.

 

[spratsmum]

Sometimes when I am gardening i get attacked by a tree, but the wounds aren't like the one in the photo, they are more scratches that bleed rather than a significant layer of skin removed. ~What causes scratches like that, anyone?

 

[Amee]

4.30pm: The 40th witness in the trial is Indooroopilly police Sgt Andrew Jackson.

He said he attended 593 Brookfield Rd at Brookfield with his district duty officer Sen-Sgt Narelle Curtis at 8.34am on April 20, 2012.

Sgt Jackson said he was the shift supervisor.

“I’ve seen an elderly gentleman carrying a vacuum cleaner,” he said of the moment he arrived at the house.

He said he activated a digital recorder as he walked up the driveway.

Sgt Jackson said he saw Baden-Clay walking down the steps and he introduced himself.

“He was dressed in business clothing, suit pants, long sleeve business shirt and wearing a tie,” he said.

“As soon as he looked at me straight on I saw a couple of large lacerations to the right side of his face. Their appearance to me was that they were slightly jagged and the wound itself was quite recent in that it was very moist, it wasn’t scabbed up at all.”
Sgt Jackson said he went into the house and sat at the dining table as the accused answered some questions.

He said Nigel Baden-Clay remained outside while Olivia Walton had come back into the house and was talking with another officer.

Sgt Jackson said he asked them to leave the house so they could talk privately with the accused.

The jury was shown a series of photos of the house interior.

“Gerard had a laptop sitting right in front of him as I was talking to him. I recall that as he was trying to find a photo of his wife as we were talking to him,” he said.

Sgt Jackson said he went into the main bedroom and noticed it was clean, clear and the bed had been made.

The jury was shown a photo of a white bedspread across the bed, a lace curtain pulled aside near the fly-screen window, a treadmill and a couple of wooden cupboards. On the bed was a wire coat hanger and a blue scarf or throw.

 

[L_B]

Not especially disagreeing with you personally here spratsmum, but your post got me thinking. Reading this made me try out my own fingernails on myself, and I have to say it would take a lot of effort to make those scratches, or more like gouges.

Any other ladies tried this? I've got mid-length strong natural sharpish nails (as opposed to thicker blunt acrylic nails) and there's no way I can scratch myself hard enough to cut the skin in an arm-extending, cat-scratch type movement. Even trying to dig my nails in hard and drag, it becomes too painful to continue long before any permanent mark is left on the skin.

Maybe I could practice on an apple or peach or something, but I think it would take quite sustained pressure and dragging to make those marks - eg clawing at someone's face while they're strangling you and won't let go (and their arms aren't free to block you). Also one of the scratches is a bit crooked, which would point to slower, sustained movement maybe?

I've scratched my hubby (not on purpose) before when just mucking around having a tickle fight (haha!) ... I didn't even realise I did it until a few days later, and I was like 'what's that on your arm?' and he responded 'you drew blood!!' and I wasn't being intentionally vicious. So I am sure if I was fighting for my life I could do a fair bit of damage!!

 

[Amee]

The carpet was pink and the three sliding doors to the wardrobe were mirrored and edged in gold.

A dressing table with a mirror was cluttered with products, while a blue washing basket sat on the floor near to some women’s shoes.

He said he requested police assistance to look for the missing person.

“I made the decision to call further police out, it was a very cold morning, Mrs Baden-Clay had been missing for a number of hours by that stage,” he said.

He said the area was rural residential property between 2.5 acres up to 10 acres or more.

Sgt Jackson said his attention was eventually drawn to the Holden Captiva in the car port, where a packet of prescription medication was found.

“I noticed most of the medication had been consumed,” he said.

The jury was played the 24-minute recording Sgt Jackson took on the day.

In it, Baden-Clay told the two officers he had recently had a car accident.

“As I was discussing with the constables before it’s been pretty good, she has had a past history of depression, she has in the past, that has been managed by medication,” he said.

“I’m not a hundred per cent sure about that, Kieron was asking me before, we haven’t really discussed it for a long time, it used to be a daily dose of Zoloft.”

Sen-Sgt Curtis: “So Gerard, you and your wife are estranged are you?”

Baden-Clay replied: “No…”

He told the police he and his wife’s relationship had been put under strain and they had been to see a counsellor together.

“Overall it was a pretty positive thing I think, she had seen her previously in Spring Hill, we’ve been to a couple of different counsellors … I thought overall it was a very positive thing, there were some strategies … it’s about rebuilding the trust,” he said.

He said he did not know if his wife slept with him: “I’m a heavy sleeper and a snorer.”

Baden-Clay said it wasn’t unusual for his wife to fall asleep on the couch, maybe once a fortnight.

He said his wife walked in the mornings.

“I was going to say regularly but it’s intermittently now,” he said.

“We’re both trying to lose weight.”

The accused said his wife either wore a black walking out or a grey one and the grey tracksuit was missing.

“She has a singlet top … three-quarter length things, daggy old ones, she bought some new Lorna Jane ones and they are here,” he said.

The trial will resume at 10am.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226956622231

 

[Nads]

Do you think the defence are leading up to an argument that the police saw lots of immediate things that made them only concentrate on GBC as a suspect, and not consider anyone else? Therefore they never did a proper investigation and considered other suspects eg TM.

Scratches, affair, financial difficulties, vacuum cleaner etc.

 

[Tangled_Web]

Revisiting the scratches. Apologies to anyone who may be having dinner :sick:

Police photograph of marks on Gerard Baden-Clay's face. Photo: Court Exhibit

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-5-week-2-20140617-3a9wj.html#ixzz34sbOa31k

I vividly recall the first time I saw that photo. I truly was shocked. Wonder if the members of the jury had the same reaction (if they hadn't seen them before)

 

[Total]

Revisiting the scratches. Apologies to anyone who may be having dinner :sick:

Police photograph of marks on Gerard Baden-Clay's face. Photo: Court Exhibit

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-5-week-2-20140617-3a9wj.html#ixzz34sbOa31k

Looking at again, after more than two years...I am wondering if they did photograph the inside of his mouth. As I see it, the forefinger and middle finger caused that scratch (of that I am sure) ....but just trying it on my leg, if you have that kind of pressure to cause that where is the thumb? Slight scratch on the corner, but with that pressure probably in his mouth.


Sorry she didn't rip his tongue out...that would have been justice!

 

[Amee]

there is a beautiful photo of Allison and her mum in this link.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226956622231

 

[KG1]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 1m
Ms Ritchie agrees with defence that Gerard told her about his community activities where he "supported and helped other people". #badenclay

Defence getting in a bit of 'good' character evidence early? Looks like the defence are not going to be left with much to work on. 'Depression' read 'suicide' becoming a more and more remote red herring. MOO

 

[Sydneygal]

Not especially disagreeing with you personally here spratsmum, but your post got me thinking. Reading this made me try out my own fingernails on myself, and I have to say it would take a lot of effort to make those scratches, or more like gouges.

Any other ladies tried this? I've got mid-length strong natural sharpish nails (as opposed to thicker blunt acrylic nails) and there's no way I can scratch myself hard enough to cut the skin in an arm-extending, cat-scratch type movement. Even trying to dig my nails in hard and drag, it becomes too painful to continue long before any permanent mark is left on the skin.

Maybe I could practice on an apple or peach or something, but I think it would take quite sustained pressure and dragging to make those marks - eg clawing at someone's face while they're strangling you and won't let go (and their arms aren't free to block you). Also one of the scratches is a bit crooked, which would point to slower, sustained movement maybe?

I have very strong mid-length to long natural fingernails and they can & have made marks on another person almost identical to those on GBC's face. I was a victim of domestic violence many years ago & eventually fought back

 

[Neuromancer]

OK I'm really questioning this .. what on earth is the point of spending every second night opening up the wounds?

I have no expertise in this but i'm guessing it would be a way to confine and limit the discussion to a set time that would hopefully be more productive?

Assuming Allison would want to bring it up a lot, and that G was wanting to avoid it, that would be a middle ground. To stop Allison constantly bringing it up, but knowing that she would have a chance to talk about it later that day or the next, and forcing G to engage with it to some degree?

 

[Total]

“Overall it was a pretty positive thing I think, she had seen her previously in Spring Hill, we’ve been to a couple of different counsellors … I thought overall it was a very positive thing, there were some strategies … it’s about rebuilding the trust,” he said.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226956622231

Here he is quoting Carmel Ritchie word for word.....yet when he was in the session according to her he fought her strategies and suggestions. And from her recollections he just wanted it put behind him (not a care about Allison's feelings). He is contradicting himself in the first few minutes with the QPS as go what his views were a few days before. I can now start to see the Prosecution's logic.

As for logic...where is Trooper?????

 

[Brightbird]

Gerard seems overly sure she went for a walk. How does he know Allison didn't have a friend pick her up for a late night coffee? How does he know she didn't answer the door and was abducted? If it were me I think I'd say I woke up and she wasn't here. She might have gone for a walk but I really don't know because I never saw her after I went to bed.

 

[Amee]

Gerard Baden-Clay 'had affairs with other women' and cheated on both his wife and his mistress, murder trial hear

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-days-Allison-disappeared.html#ixzz34shyArRC

 

[AAAA]

Omg! I just listened to the 000call on the news. Gerard even had the nerve to have a dig at the police saying "I tried the 131 number but it went on forever" who does this man think he is!!!!

 

[Amee]

Good morning when you are ringing 000 ?? :banghead:


3.30pm: The jury was played a 000 call from Gerard Baden-Clay to police at 7.15am on April 20, 2012.

It was three minutes and 30 seconds long.

The operator asked him where he was.

“Good morning, Brookfield. 593 Brookfield Rd, Brookfield. Um … my wife isn’t home and um, I don’t know where she is,” it said

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226956622231

 

[Brightbird]

I have no expertise in this but i'm guessing it would be a way to confine and limit the discussion to a set time that would hopefully be more productive?

Assuming Allison would want to bring it up a lot, and that G was wanting to avoid it, that would be a middle ground. To stop Allison constantly bringing it up, but knowing that she would have a chance to talk about it later that day or the next, and forcing G to engage with it to some degree?

It might be a fine technique, but I query the counselors insistence on making G & A use it at that stage of therapy. Gerard was resistant and from her description, I got the impression that she hammered him about doing it until he gave in.

 

[sosocurious]

Fuller said in his opening address that Allison was dabbling in her own real estate adventures.
The attached article says that she and Allison attended a real estate seminar together signed up to do a course together a year or 18 months before her death.
She didn't want her husband to know about the course, it was something she wanted to do for extra money.
Did she complete that course I wonder?

The article also says Ms Weymouth (hairdresser) said Allison left the salon at about 7pm.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...n-trial-for-murder-of-his-wife-allison/story-

 

[AAAA]

Revisiting the scratches. Apologies to anyone who may be having dinner :sick:

Police photograph of marks on Gerard Baden-Clay's face. Photo: Court Exhibit

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-5-week-2-20140617-3a9wj.html#ixzz34sbOa31k

To me they definitely look like they would have to have been done from in front of him, ie strangling her or the like, as they come forward down his face. If Allison was just angry and scratched him from behind in a temper, him unaware she was coming for him, they would go the other way. Just thoughts.