The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 17th June - Trial Day 5 - Week 2

[Freya1977]

Yes that's exactly what I thought.

Sorry I mustn't have explained myself very well in that post - I was trying to say, you wouldn't get that from a casual scratch (eg like a slap where nails connect with skin), but that you'd really have to be trying hard and in some distress - clawing at someone who was trying to choke you or something, as you describe.

Sorry, I did know what you meant - got a bit caught up with the scratches! Yes it definitely takes some force and not just a little "swipe" like someone suggested. Done in sheer terror for her life, IMHO

 

[Waiting for Justice]

Hi everyone,

I have been a member and have been following this forum for a while but this is my first post. Please forgive me if I repeat points already made as I have been out of touch with these threads but have started reading again since the trial began.

Some thoughts:

It is very very difficult (although not impossible, I concede) to die from an overdose of Sertraline. Hundreds of thousands of Australians take it daily and there is no way it would still be prescribed if it was that easy to take an overdose and die. It is not as simple as just taking all the pills in the box at once and dying. Usually overdose resulting in death happens with a cocktail of all sorts of different drugs and nothing else was found in her system. I have a friend who is a psychiatrist and he said you could take 100 of the tablets and still not die! As this seems to be something that the defense is angling for I really hope they have an expert witness to question about this.

http://www.rxlist.com/zoloft-drug/overdosage-contraindications.htm

I noticed during the trial today they mentioned a police officer searched Allison’s car and found an empty box of her medication. I wonder if GBC emptied it out to fit with the suicide story….?

Also, re: the life insurance. Nigel claimed “it’s in one of the terms and conditions… that you notify the insurance company as soon as “the event” occurs.” Well as far as I understood from his testimony “the event” was that they read on the internet that “a body” had been found and then they filled out the forms before they had official confirmation from the police that it was actually Allison. Seems a bit keen to me, without confirmation, how could they be 100% sure it was Allison unless they had put the body there themselves…?

P.S thank you to all of you for comments and thoughts, I have found them most thoughtful/insightful and have enjoyed reading these threads all this time.

:loveyou: Hi Beechworth!! Welcome to the WS family

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

It seems contradictory that he was in such a hurry, cut himself so badly and had so much to do - but somehow had time to clean away every trace of blood from those cuts

And make a very neat bed and put on cuff links!

 

[Smegal]

Exactly... why panic at that stage? If he really didn't murder her... he would at least think "Well we had a bit of a row last night ... maybe she is still p'd off at me." Why ring the police?

He only called so early because the plan had to be put in to action straight away...

Do we know if he called the lady that Allison was meant to be attending the conference with before calling 000?

I've gone over and over in my head 'what would I do if my husband when missing in the same circumstance?', and I think I would be calling everyone he knew, driving/walking around, trying to come up with a reasonable explanation before I called the police.

 

[canarybird]

I've listened to the 000 call and I can't get over how calm and drawn out GBC's speech is. I watched it on The Project tonight and they had it captioned. Seeing the word 'um' written out so many times jumped out at me. Whenever I'm worried or panicked about something, I blurt out as much information as I can. But he paused before even giving his own name?

 

[they'll get you]

Using the word practice is a it frightening Neuromancer, LOL. I can imagine it would take some effort, I wonder how long Allisons nails were. I think though in an extreme situation you might find the strength to do it. If it wasn't her nails what do you think it could have been?

Did the police check TMCH's nails for DNA? What would they find.

Natural nails will scratch like that. My brothers ex wife lashed out at him in front of my parents and me. They looked like that. He was stirring her up and she just reached out. It was uncalled for but it happened in seconds. We all were shocked, including her but my brother wasn't sure what to do because he had to front his work the next day.
His workmates saw it immediately and razzed him all day.
They were obvious.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Can anyone clarify if the second woman GBC cheated on Toni with - did Gerard tell her this or was the first time she knew when police told her?

I've read one report that said he confessed to her the next morning before asking her to join him in Sydney and another that said she didn't know until police told her.

Anyone clarify for me?

For those who were there, what was GBC reaction to the witness testimony today?

 

[sosocurious]

Can anyone clarify if the second woman GBC cheated on Toni with - did Gerard tell her this or was the first time she knew when police told her?

I've read one report that said he confessed to her the next morning before asking her to join him in Sydney and another that said she didn't know until police told her.

Anyone clarify for me?

For those who were there, what was GBC reaction to the witness testimony today?

My take on it is that Toni knew about the women in Sydney Jackie Crane but she was unaware of the other until the police told her.
She said in the bail hearing she knew Jackie Crane.
I am curious if this was also a past event or was current.

 

[they'll get you]

Who made the bed? The way the bed WAS before it was made would have answered that.

Mrs Dickie was right, the house had been cleaned and tidied.

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou
Gerard tells the officers he is a heavy sleeper and he doesn't actually know if his wife came to bed the night before. #badenclay





http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ing-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226956622231

 

[Tangled_Web]

And make a very neat bed and put on cuff links!

oh and not to forget the taking out of those tea cups and saucers ...

 

[volunteer]

Have been following from 2012, but this is only my 2nd post, because all you wonderful people have covered EVERYTHING! Thanks heaps.

I have a question for Alioop - Am I correct in thinking that if GBC does decide to take the stand and give evidence on his own behalf, then the defense has the advantage of addressing the jury at the end of the trial AFTER the prosecution, but if he does not take the stand, it is the other way around? Hope you can understand this. Personally I can not imagine that he will - what do you think?

 

[AAAA]

And make a very neat bed and put on cuff links!

Speaking of the neatly made bed, could someone please indulge me and post (yet again) the police picture of the main bedroom? I want to compare the picture on the news tonight and the other one to see if they are they same, I thought there were a few differences? My point being that maybe they were taken at different times, and the other one one was after the house was tidied up? Thanks in advance.

 

[Brightbird]

Do we know if he called the lady that Allison was meant to be attending the conference with before calling 000?

I've gone over and over in my head 'what would I do if my husband when missing in the same circumstance?', and I think I would be calling everyone he knew, driving/walking around, trying to come up with a reasonable explanation before I called the police.

I had the same thoughts walking home tonight. I posted earlier that he seems overly sure that she went for a walk. But if he never saw her leave in the morning, why didn't he consider other scenarios before assuming she was "missing" from a walk? I would think my partner had left an hour early. I would ask someone friend at the conference to let me know if they arrived ok. Only when I found out that they never turned up at the conference would I really start thinking something bad happened. Like when Jill Meagher was missing. Her husband was out looking for her, calling her phone, and contacting her friends. It was about half a day before he called police.

 

[Liadan]

Anytime BN - I was so glad we could catch up at the case!
but it was interesting as we chatted that we agreed that if Allison had exhibited such strong signs of depression and anxiety then why didn't OW who proclaimed to love and adore her and look up to her, take her straight to the hospital. BN and I were talking and we were surprised at how easily we would be swayed at supporting a friend who was having symptoms of something we were uncomfortable about and what we would do to help the friend. It was definitely not about putting them to bed and leaving them be. We would have taken them to the doctors and insisted on a plan for their treatment.

 

[AAAA]

I've listened to the 000 call and I can't get over how calm and drawn out GBC's speech is. I watched it on The Project tonight and they had it captioned. Seeing the word 'um' written out so many times jumped out at me. Whenever I'm worried or panicked about something, I blurt out as much information as I can. But he paused before even giving his own name?

And how calm did he sound???!!! Not a whingey, whiney, I'm a little bit hurt but I'm ok voice, but more like a real estate agent talking to a client.... It's got 4 bedrooms, two baths, a nice sized yard and great neighbours kind of a voice?

 

[beechworth]

:loveyou: Hi Beechworth!! Welcome to the WS family

Thank you!!

 

[they'll get you]

I have very strong mid-length to long natural fingernails and they can & have made marks on another person almost identical to those on GBC's face. I was a victim of domestic violence many years ago & eventually fought back

Good on you BUT if the man has a bad temper it can make him really turn bad because he is obviously marked by a woman.
A woman has scratched his face. WHY?
It will make people wonder and question.

HE CAN'T COVER IT UP.

If there is domestic violence many women will prefer to escape unharmed. They'll remain subservient to escape harm. If you are to retaliate, it better take him down because if he gets up you'd better run for you life and run bloody fast.

Many women who fear a violent man are too frightened to fight, unless it's the last resort to live.

 

[Smegal]

I had the same thoughts walking home tonight. I posted earlier that he seems overly sure that she went for a walk. But if he never saw her leave in the morning, why didn't he consider other scenarios before assuming she was "missing" from a walk? I would think my partner had left an hour early. I would ask someone friend at the conference to let me know if they arrived ok. Only when I found out that they never turned up at the conference would I really start thinking something bad happened. Like when Jill Meagher was missing. Her husband was out looking for her, calling her phone, and contacting her friends. It was about half a day before he called police.

Exactly! It's not as if Allison walked every morning, and I don't remember reading that he'd told police she had said the night before she was planning on walking in the morning.

Something else (among many other things!) that really rubs me the wrong way is that he told the girls that mum is missing and then shipped them off to school! Why not put on a brave face, pretend everything is fine and send them to school? Oh right, because you knew everything wasn't fine, didn't you?

 

[they'll get you]

Omg! I just listened to the 000call on the news. Gerard even had the nerve to have a dig at the police saying "I tried the 131 number but it went on forever" who does this man think he is!!!!

Oh I want to hear it! Was he arrogant or did he have that 'little bit hurt' whinge in his voice.
I'll watch out for a link.

 

[JAM13]

Jam13, 9am maybe even earlier though I'm not sure what time they open the doors and I think it depends on who the witnessess will be as to the amount of people who will be there. Both times I've gotten there about 9.30 and there has been alot of people there. The first time I tried to get into the main courtroom and missed out and went to the overflow room, so the second time I went straight to the oveflow room and there were so many people I thought I might not get a seat.
I'm going tomorrow too, but I plan on getting there earlier this time and I'm going straight to the overflow room. I think the atmosphere is more relaxed in the overflow room.

Thanks for that whatif. Hopefully i'll be able to get in one or the other :gavel: