The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 18th June - Trial Day 6, Week 2

[Oddsocks]

Just looking thru the first police interview at the house
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30814&d=1363404503
(text loosely abbreviated by me)

Police: what does she normally wear walking/jogging?
BC: one of two outfits - black or grey
Police: Which one's missing?
BC: the grey one

and then
Police: singlet top or a shirt?
BC: "Ah she has a singlet top um [INDISTINCT] she sometimes wears a sloppy joe or something over the top of that. Um it's also grey" (quoted exactly)

Ok now for starters - he really had time to search her wardrobe/dirty laundry to see what was missing? while driving around, speed shaving, making lunches and being constantly on the phone?
(Interview commenced at 08:18 am)

And even if you did have time - I couldn't work out what my partner was wearing by going thru his wardrobe if I had an hour or more - I wouldn't have a clue - who would?

and then he even knows she has a singlet not a shirt on - again who would know? Most ppl would have lots of singlets/t-shirts and probably just grab the closest one that's clean, depending on the weather or some minor whim, no?

AND this line - BC: "Ah she has a singlet top um...
It sounds like he nearly said "she has a singlet top ON" and stopped himself to mumble and deflect once he realised he shouldn't know that, lol

Excellent observations I'm impressed!!
Night night all:seeya:

 

[BJsleuth]

Like I said.......nobody doubts the report, she obviously said it. Don't worry guys, I'm not doubting their accuracy in reporting the statements. I think you're misinterpreting me so let's just forget it....All good

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Whichever way you look at it, whether OBW was repeating what she'd heard or being sarcastic, it's such an inappropriate outlandish comment.

 

[BigT]

Typically there are signs that someone is considering suicide, and they will consider the means by which to do it before committing. It just sounds unlikely that it is at play here to me. MOO

https://www.lifeline.org.au/Get-Help/Facts---Information/Preventing-Suicide/

so, did someone else have a hand in Allison's death, it seems no evidence of that is being adduced.

Put GBC on the bridge, and there is no reasonable doubt he had a hand in this.

 

[Zim]

Doe anybody have a longer section of the article re: this? I remember reading this but I was kinda tired at the time and skimming through it all fairly quickly. I didn't think - Allison on couch - GBC rushing upstairs wearing pyjamas and SHOES - maybe she WAS already dead or unconscious! :-(

Here is another link

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226950152264

 

[BigT]

According to all reports & GBC's charge sheet, police state Allison was murdered at home....

Text copied from GBC's charge sheet...

Details of Charge

Charge 1 of 2

Criminal Code(CC)-(CC) 302&305 Murder

That on or about the 19th day of April 2012 at BRISBANE in the State of Queensland one GERARD ROBERT BADEN-CLAY murdered ALLISON JUNE BADEN-CLAY

Address of offence: 593 BROOKFIELD RD, BROOKFIELD, QLD 4069
---------------------------------------

Charge 2 of 2

Criminal Code (CC) -)CC)236(b) Misconduct with corpse by interfering

That on or about the 19th day of April 2012 at BRISBANE in the State of Queensland one GERARD BADEN-CLY IMPROPERLY INTERFERED WITH A DEAD HUMAN BODY

Address of offence: CREEK - KHOLO CREEK, MOUNT CROSBY,QLD 4306

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion*

These sound so definite!

 

[Zim]

fftobed:
Nitey nite ! sweet dreams

 

[Kimster]

I've been thinking about the motive and after having a lot of GBC's personality come out at trial, I really do think the motive was money and freedom. He desperately needed the money due to his mounting debt. And then when Allison started working so closely with him, she was threatening his freedom to philander. When he gave TH the July 1st date, I feel it was solely due to the $$$ and the comment merely made to hush her up. I highly doubt he cared for her because I don't think he has that capability.

This is my personal opinion and not necessarily the opinion of Websleuths LLC. Feel free to respectfully disagree.

 

[Consider]

Just looking thru the first police interview at the house
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30814&d=1363404503
(text loosely abbreviated by me)

Police: what does she normally wear walking/jogging?
BC: one of two outfits - black or grey
Police: Which one's missing?
BC: the grey one

and then
Police: singlet top or a shirt?
BC: "Ah she has a singlet top um [INDISTINCT] she sometimes wears a sloppy joe or something over the top of that. Um it's also grey" (quoted exactly)

Ok now for starters - he really had time to search her wardrobe/dirty laundry to see what was missing? while driving around, speed shaving, making lunches and being constantly on the phone?
(Interview commenced at 08:18 am)

And even if you did have time - I couldn't work out what my partner was wearing by going thru his wardrobe if I had an hour or more - I wouldn't have a clue - who would?

and then he even knows she has a singlet not a shirt on - again who would know? Most ppl would have lots of singlets/t-shirts and probably just grab the closest one that's clean, depending on the weather or some minor whim, no?

AND this line - BC: "Ah she has a singlet top um...
It sounds like he nearly said "she has a singlet top ON" and stopped himself to mumble and deflect once he realised he shouldn't know that, lol

I totally agree.

"Which one's missing?"... He'd already in this ridiculously hectic 2 hour time frame checked her wardrobe, wash baskets, wash machine, dryer, clothesline : give me a break!

GBC version is to state that he assumes she went walking...
Did he call out for her around the grounds of the house (as you would?!) nup

Surely in keeping with GBC account he would have called out loudly for her (depressed in grey not black curled up crying under a bushel in the far end of the back yard.

There was no reason for him to check which walking gear she had on (he knew what she was wearing).

There was no need for him to call out for her all around the property: he knew where she was, but he failed to behave/act as any one of us would with the knowledge, history and soul he has.

IMO

 

[Kimster]

Excellent sleuthing, Neuromancer! One of those posts that makes me hope the prosecution is reading here.

 

[Consider]

I've been thinking about the motive and after having a lot of GBC's personality come out at trial, I really do think the motive was money and freedom. He desperately needed the money due to his mounting debt. And then when Allison started working so closely with him, she was threatening his freedom to philander. When he gave TH the July 1st date, I feel it was solely due to the $$$ and the comment merely made to hush her up. I highly doubt he cared for her because I don't think he has that capability.

This is my personal opinion and not necessarily the opinion of Websleuths LLC. Feel free to respectfully disagree.

I agree.
First of July is such a choice date for someone like him:
- Alison's birthday I read, and
- new financial year...

Appealing to his sadistic and money first motivations.

IMO

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

I'm in and out in less than two hours. Full colour, 1/2 head of foils, tone, cut, blow dry. My hair is already light though so doesn't take long! I'd lose my mind if I had to sit there for much longer!

Lots of discussion about how long the haircut took and the time Allison left the hairdressers and arrived home. I am certain it was said in the first couple of days of the trial that she met a friend(not sure who) for quick dinner after the hairdressers. I'm really sorry I don't have a link to that right now- throbbing headache and needing to get some sleep.

 

[Consider]

Well... Here I am first day posting and not only more confused than ever after years of lurking but in fact now talking to myself!!

Good night me

 

[Makara]

Perhaps OW really had no clue what GBC and NBC had been doing that night.

Not being 'in on it' would make her frustrations far more heightened than Mr Cool as a Cucumber and senior... Her innocence an excellent foil... Natural, human response to running about and helping out but 'in the dark'.

Less patient with police and less inclined to 'please'/manipulate police.

IMO - (& my position re OW is mercurial :scared her comment to police MIGHT plausibly be the only genuine bit of impatient frustration displayed when faced with NOT knowing where ABC was.

I totally agree Consider. I don't think OW was aware of what had taken place at that stage. Bwana and GBC weren't about to fill her in all of the details just yet. I don't think either of them had time to scratch themselves before deciding to phone OOO.

OW was just a loose cannon, running about doing what needed to be done and getting a bit titchy with Constable Ash in the process. It may have been her way of flirting with him. :floorlaugh: Sorry, but her comment to Constable Ash is utterly ridiculous!

 

[Kimster]

Well... Here I am first day posting and not only more confused than ever after years of lurking but in fact now talking to myself!!

Good night me

That's how I feel when trial is over each day - it's past my bedtime by then!

 

[Makara]

It is. Early. They would have been dumped at the school and Aunty Olivia roared off back to the house

It's been a long time since my children went to primary school, but from memory, they didn't go into class in the mornings until 9 - 9.30 ?

So those poor little girls of Allison's were told, 'shortly after 6 am' by their father that mum had fallen down a hole and wouldn't be back

Dad was busy shaving and the rest. Phone calls back and forth. Girls would have had their baths the night before, no doubt. Breakfast -- sitting there with big eyes, looking at each other silently, wondering what was going on and why Dad wasn't going to help Mum out of the hole

NBC was over there and Aunty Olivia because Constable Ash noted that as he and Hammond drove up the driveway to the house, NBC and OBW cars were already there. Ash also noted in his statement that NBC came out of the house. Then OBW steering the girls down the steps to the car. GBC was already fully dressed. Gerard immediately asked Constables Ash and Hammond to move their cars so OBW could take the girls to school. And that was within minutes of Constables Ash and Hammond arriving at 8 a.m. as shown in the official Witness Statement

For close to an hour, Allison's girls would have had to find something to do in the playground or under the school before classes started. That's a long time for little kids worried about their mum

Was it necessary to remove the girls from the house so early in the morning?

Clearly Gerard and OBW believed so

Gerard could easily have spoken with police outside the house and away from the girls' hearing. Indeed he did so, taking police aside to talk about things he claimed he didn't want others to overhear

The girls could have stayed in their rooms oblivious of adult discussions with police outside

But those girls were considered a potential spoke in the wheel of the BC narrative to police until they'd been thoroughly 'debriefed' at a later time, imo

BBM. In all likelihood OW took the girls back to Nigelaine's place, a 5 minute drive away.

NBC stated in court that '"they" thought it best to remove the girls from the house so that they didn't become upset seeing the police there. Yeah, I know it's BS! Seriously, if my spouse was genuinely missing, there is no way I would be letting my kids out of my sight.

 

[Makara]

Much relieved. Thank you Makara.

So IMO to catch up : we're waiting on forensic report to determine the how with additional police reports combining to determine the when, yes?

Meanwhile we assume the why/motive = the usual : $$$, freedom/single scene sex and (not so thought through) sole care of 3 young girls who will forever long for their mum and wonder about other relatives for the rest of their lives perhaps...

Whilst the whom and whomever are pretty much assumed to be a given thus far.

Safe to surmise?

Yes, yes and yes.

 

[ThaiBali]

Yep always thought someone else had to be involved in disposal of her body

Hi all, first post. Thank you to all behind the scene.

If Allison was thrown or rolled from the bridge what would be the chances of her being found on her side in a sleeping position.

You'd have thought she'd land on her back or face.

I keep thinking two people had her legs and swung her under the bridge, with one going down and re arranging the scene.. could also explain the jumper over her face as well.

We have to remember the B.C's scouting attributes, they could get to places we the ordinary couldn't.

 

[Makara]

Zoloft comes in packets of 30 tablets.

Most prescribed medication comes in packets of 1 month's supply at a time (28 or 30, depending if the manufacturer is trying to save money).

If a doctor is worried that someone may be severely depressed and suicidal, he/she may not let them access a whole month's worth at a time. The pharmacist might be asked to dispense weekly, or the medication may be left in the custody of a responsible family member who gives out each dose individually and makes sure it is taken properly and not stockpiled.

If Allison was being given whole packs of 30 Zoloft at a time without anyone keeping an eye on her like this, it means her doctor(s) must have had no reason to believe that she was at risk of suicide.

Very good point MadDoc. Thank you.

 

[Neuromancer]

[...]Seriously, if my spouse was genuinely missing, there is no way I would be letting my kids out of my sight.

That's a really good point - when you have a loss of someone close to you, or you're really worried about them - you cling to other loved ones more than usual and get over-protective of them.

As you and others have said, he just didn't want the cops getting near those kids until they'd been debriefed. Wonder what he was most concerned about - that they'd heard something? that they'd mention the scratches? or what else?

I thought it was telling that (according to one of the kid's statements) he came in to wake her up that morning with shaving cream on his face. Presumably to hide the scratch marks which a kid would openly ask about if they noticed. I don't think I've ever seen a partner leave the bathroom mirror once he has shaving cream on - it's one of those rituals that you complete in a set way once you've started, isn't it?

 

[Neuromancer]

Hi all, first post. Thank you to all behind the scene.

If Allison was thrown or rolled from the bridge what would be the chances of her being found on her side in a sleeping position.

You'd have thought she'd land on her back or face.

I keep thinking two people had her legs and swung her under the bridge, with one going down and re arranging the scene.. could also explain the jumper over her face as well.

We have to remember the B.C's scouting attributes, they could get to places we the ordinary couldn't.

Sounds like the police's current theory is that she was taken down a path beside the bridge, then rolled off a higher ledge under the bridge to the mud below. So being rolled over would fit with landing on a side.

If you look at this photo -

you can see the grassy ledge i mean, about 5-6 feet above her body (guessing this is the highest high tide mark?).
It's actually under the bridge, so you couldn't be thrown there from the top.