The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2

[Tishy]

I think it's just so that appearing in court doesn't disrupt their work schedule so much.

Really?!! Their work schedule is important as opposed to other peoples' because..?!

 

[Consider]

Could Allison been put into a big fibreglass bag like this pictured at the bottom of the bed. I'd fit easily. Those handles would make abrasions if dragged or carried.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/13/1402658481372_wps_1_360_interactive_tour_of_t.jpg

It's possible, my experience is the handles and zippers on these more often than not break with just a doona or a few cushion inserts stored in them. But IMO there are most likely varying brands/quality.

 

[Fuskier]

Could Allison been put into a big fibreglass bag like this pictured at the bottom of the bed. I'd fit easily. Those handles would make abrasions if dragged or carried.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/13/1402658481372_wps_1_360_interactive_tour_of_t.jpg

It's possible TGY, but then why would he bring it back into the house? It would be full of Allison's DNA. I imagine that whatever he used along with his clothing/shoes etc has long been disposed of. My opinion only.

 

[drsleuth]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 5m

Defence citing another expert's opinion there wasn't evidence of direction of neck marks. Dr Griffiths sticks to his own opinion #badenclay

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 39s

Dr Griffiths is being asked about his evidence about the committal where he seemed to indicate he couldn't tell direction on face injuries.

Dr Griffiths repeats he still thinks suggestion is there is a downward movement. Could well be the way the evidence was led, he says.

Dr Griffiths says he saw the three larger abrasions. He doesn't recall seeing the smaller ones at all at the time of examination. #badenclay

Dr Griffiths has finished giving evidence. #badenclay

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Something else I'm wondering. If Allison's anxiety/panic attack was that bad she vomited and couldn't drive etc and had to be brought home to sleep. Would she be in a fit state to walk 14km if that is what occurred that night? I know a few people who suffer from panic attacks and can barely get up in that state let alone walk.

I have had anxiety problems most of my life, so this is just my very personal opinion...I have absolutely had times where I couldn't sit still because of the tension. In fact there were a number of occasions when I was a teenager that I ran several miles in the dark, in my bare feet, in my pajamas in the middle of the night because I just had to make it stop. We lived in a rural area...no streetlights, and the roads were paved but shoulders very narrow and uneven. It wasnt like I had a destination in mind. The way I was running, I ran there almost every day for exercise so it was like autopilot for me. My feet were just taking me where they had taken me many, many times before because of the nervous energy I had built up. I am talking I had a five-mile loop and a seven-mile loop which were partially overlapping and at the time I ran ten-15 miles a day, which would be 2-3 times around the five-mile loop. I knew where every branch was down along the road and every pothole or stone sticking up out of the ground. Otherwise no way would my body have taken me there by instinct. No way.

Also im my experience, and I know that there's a lot of individual differences, but once I expel the nervous energy, like by vomiting, I am exhausted. Maybe because of expending the energy physically or maybe just the adrenaline wearing off.

ETA got to give it up for my parents, especially my mom, who drove up and down the mountain looking for me when I did that. <3

 

[drsleuth]

12:13pm: Dr Griffiths said he would usually be given a scenario and asked to form an opinion about the likelihood of that scenario occurring when examining a complainant or alleged offender.

He was given no scenario in relation to Mr Baden-Clay.

"All I had to do was document the injuries and form an opinion about what might have caused them," he said.

"I had no history at all about what might have caused [them]."

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-7-week-2-20140619-3af2d.html#ixzz35369BIIy

 

[drsleuth]

12:22pm: Dr Griffiths examined Mr Baden-Clay for a second time two months later on June 14, 2012.

By that time, Mr Baden-Clay had grown a beard.

Under a "forensic procedure order", Dr Griffiths shaved the area of Mr Baden-Clay's where the initial abrasions had been.

Although the abrasions had healed, Dr Griffiths said scarring was still evident on Mr Baden-Clay's face.

He said that was consistent with the injuries being abrasions rather than cuts.

"A cut would have healed much more quickly ... within a week," he said.

He said it was "highly improbable" that a "modern razor" would cause an abrasion of the type Mr Baden-Clay presented with.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-7-week-2-20140619-3af2d.html#ixzz3536wYoNP

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 29s

Now we are hearing from Cameron Early. He knows Gerard through the school and local show society. #badenclay

Mr Early says he saw Gerard at 9.15am on April 19 at the school cross country. #badenclay

Mr Early says he saw Gerard pull towards the left side of his neck, say "oh ****, what was that", saying something hurt. #badenclay

Mr Early says he presumed Gerard had been bitten. He saw a welt about an inch long and red at the top of his neck. #badenclay

David Murray &#8207;@TheMurrayD 1m

Gerard continued to complain about neck irritation, presumably a grub of some sort had bitten him - Mr Early #badenclay

David Murray &#8207;@TheMurrayD 1m

Gerard continued to complain about neck irritation, presumably a grub of some sort had bitten him - Mr Early #badenclay

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Here comes the caterpillar defence ..

 

[privato]

It's possible TGY, but then why would he bring it back into the house? It would be full of Allison's DNA. I imagine that whatever he used along with his clothing/shoes etc has long been disposed of. My opinion only.

One of my very first posts on here, possibly within days of Allison going missing, was in regard to this.
A TV news report in the days following her disappearance showed police going through industrial bins.
That's when my husband and I looked at each other and concurred that things were looking very sad for Allison's family.
I just don't believe police randomly choose to search bins. In my opinion, they've ascertained at least some movements in the Captiva that night, even that early in the case, and have deduced that some disposal of sorts has occurred.

 

[LadyBird1]

panic I reckon but turns out it was pretty stupid I am wondering if the jury thinks its fingernail scratches where does that really lead to in the end not enough to convict him

Sure is Narrowing down the options though ....
Not suicidal
Resilient person
Murdered by someone? But who? ....

 

[Neuromancer]

11:58am:

"What I have described to the court is an abrasion, not a cut," he said.

I love that he's stressing this. Razors do cuts; nails do abrasions.

 

[Brightbird]

Really?!! Their work schedule is important as opposed to other peoples' because..?!

Alioop explained it better. They may have requested to do it by phone and neither side had a problem with that. I think it's pretty reasonable that doctors would want to keep their patients a priority. Seems a good compromise to me.

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 37s

Mr Early says he recalls Gerard having a red eye. #badenclay

Mr Early says he can't say for sure but thinks Gerard spent a "good few minutes" scratching his neck and later continued to be irritated.

Mr Early has been excused. Susanne Heath has now been called to the stand. #badenclay

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 9s

Ms Heath says she is a friend of Dr Bruce Flegg, a member of parliament at the time. #badenclay


Ms Heath says she sold a property using Gerard's company. She has known Gerard since 2009. #badenclay

Ms Heath says she never met Gerard's family or wife. #badenclay

Ms Heath says in March 2012, during election time, she rang Gerard. #badenclay

She says Bruce had asked her to call Gerard. Gerard said he was having financial trouble and wanted to know if Bruce could lend him money.

Ms Heath says Gerard was distressed. "I felt really quite sad for him." #badenclay

 

[Freya1977]

.........

 

[toe]

If GBC was dressed in his normal work attire of shirt and tie, you would think it rather difficult for a grub to make it's way under the collar of a shirt tied with a tie then attack. Or were the grub attack marks higher up above the collar of his shirt?

 

[drsleuth]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · 19s

Ms Heath says Gerard wanted to borrow money. She didn't think they would have "that kind of money". #badenclay

Ms Heath says Gerard told her he would go broke if he didn't get the money. He said he needed $300,000. #badenclay

Ms Heath says she felt sad for him, she thought he'd been quite successful in business. #badenclay

Ms Heath says she felt Gerard was under a lot of stress. #badenclay

Defence suggests Ms Heath wasn't told by Gerard he would go bankrupt. She disagrees. #badenclay

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Kate Kyriacou &#8207;@KateKyriacou 1m
Ms Heath says Gerard told her he would go broke if he didn't get the money. He said he needed $300,000. #badenclay

He hit her up for $300,000k .. wow that's pushing the friendship somewhat!

Who does that?