The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 19th June - Trial Day 7, Week 2

[Cattail]

I am still finding it hard to reconcile "no obvious cleanup" with Mrs Dickie's observation that seemed to suggest there had been a cleanup. I think she used the word clinical in her description of the home when she arrived there.

I know exactly what you mean.

I can understand what she would mean - we all know with friends and family and our own homes, what they normally look like vs. a clean up to impress. That's what I think she means by clinical or sterile.

But if he had cleaned up enough for her to notice - for what reason unless to hide evidence of foul play? And how could he be good enough to hide that from the police in the house but in the car not even try ??

I can understand some people thinking there is more than one person involved here. Just from the contradictions.

 

[kiwijayne]

I have limited medical knowledge but how much blood flow would there be from injury to a deceased person?

To actually bleed the heart needs to be pumping. Bodies do lose blood but only through a cut already there. If that makes sense.

 

[FigTree]

Re: The sms messages on the iphone -
What time was the Footy Show on that night?
How long is that show? Half hour? Hour?
What time did it end?


Just trying to work it in to the timeline...

 

[Cattail]

Re: The sms messages on the iphone -

What time was the Footy Show on that night?

How long is that show? Half hour? Hour?

What time did it end?





Just trying to work it in to the timeline...

I believe the footy show is supposed to start around 8:40 and go for an hour.

However it is Channel 9 who run late quite often.

That it finished past 10pm would not surprise me.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

5:06pm Wrap: This afternoon ...

* The court heard from surprise witness Brookfield resident Stephanie Apps.

She offered an explanation for the screams Brookfield residents heard on the night Allison Baden-Clay disappeared. Ms Apps said her two teenage children fought loudly on their driveway that night after the family returned from Kenmore Plaza about 9.40pm. She said her daughter raced up the driveway and screamed after running into a spider's web.

She was visited by a private detective acting for Mr Baden-Clay's defence team just last Sunday.

BBM.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-7-week-2-20140619-3af2d.html#ixzz354E3Wkby

Was this lady cross examined?
The times she gave coincide with when the footy show was on in April 2012, 9.30 start (8.30 start from nov 2012 according to Wikipedia). Gbc has testified he saw ABC watching the show as he went to bed, so this report in my mind firms up the time and confirms/solidifies the importance if the other screams. The timeline is firming up!

Tbh, this act by defence makes me thing they are panicking a bit.

 

[Consider]

Upon reading your comment Jam13 I thought of that scene in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest...just so horrific but certainly plausible and would leave little evidence. It would also explain the marks on G as Allison fought back. Would explain why the girls didn't hear anything. One of the daughters said they saw Dad come back in from the garage/outside. Maybe at that time he was preparing the tarp or whatever to move her body prior to heading to bed. I bet he said nothing at all to Allison about the next day, just waited until he could subdue her in bed. Would it be fairly easy for him to move her body to the car without the kids hearing a thing? Then when he laid her down beside the car to put her inside, that is when the plants from the carport became entangled in her hair. I am torn between it either happening in their bedroom late at night or outside in the carport but with minimal sound?

The damage to her shin, chipped tooth and chin could all have occurred as he was moving her body under the bridge. I doubt he moved her body with great care...

One thing I have always wondered was did he put something in the girl's drinks before bed to make them sleepy? Explains the sterile kitchen perhaps and the use of different cups??

Your scenario rings true.
Can you explain in same scenario the blood re the Captiva?

GBC was acutely aware of how tired the girls were after cross country that day too (so young for such exercise jmo) Maybe no 'help' required.

Oh. Makes sense why one of the girls woke up for a drink of water too.

 

[they'll get you]

To actually bleed the heart needs to be pumping. Bodies do lose blood but only through a cut already there. If that makes sense.

That's got me worried too. Was Allison dead or unconscious.
I'm trusting the police know because this has got me stumped.

 

[Consider]

Errr... There's
1. Biological sex (male/female/intersex)

2. gender (ie how you identify or feel - female/male/transgender female/transgender male)

3. Sexual orientation (straight, gay, lesbian, queer, bisexual)

Each of the three above (biological sex, gender, sexual orientation) is a totally separate thing ie all of us would have to tick a box for 1, then 2, then 3)

There endeth the lesson

I lost you after 2 genders !!

Then, I was educated by WS on such (other) matters far more than my formal schooling and life did.

Finally, my 13 year old daughter explained it all very slowly to me before enquiring "What site are you on?"

"Come along now, it's past your bedtime" deflection.

What an unexpected hoot!!

 

[Thinking]

I know exactly what you mean.

I can understand what she would mean - we all know with friends and family and our own homes, what they normally look like vs. a clean up to impress. That's what I think she means by clinical or sterile.

But if he had cleaned up enough for her to notice - for what reason unless to hide evidence of foul play? And how could he be good enough to hide that from the police in the house but in the car not even try ??

I can understand some people thinking there is more than one person involved here. Just from the contradictions.

Perhaps a combination of having help with the house clean up - but he may have intended to do the car too but the police turned up and took action far sooner than he expected?

 

[alioop]

That's a lot of blood (droplets?) with a distinct and similar pattern on both hubs
(previously I saw only a photo of one blood splattered hub..)

The 'pattern' and then lack of blood between the two hubs is baffling (to me).
Presumably when those seats are up there's no blood on them?

Doesn't say much for tarp and roping skills Messrs Baden-! IMO

I must be annoying as a late starter. Sorry.

The white bright substance is not the blood. There was only one smudge with 2 drips of blood down to the floor on the driver side wall/wheel arch in the boot area. That boot area has the pop up third row of seats. There is a photo a few pages ago on this thread that shows the blood. There are also photos that the blood has highlighted as blue presumably from the chemical used.

 

[sosocurious]

I believe the footy show is supposed to start around 8:40 and go for an hour.

However it is Channel 9 who run late quite often.

That it finished past 10pm would not surprise me.

Interesting the footy show commences at about 8.40pm and GBC removes his phone from charge at 8.45pm he does not replace it until 148 am on the 20th.
Wonder if he still had his pj's and joggers on.

 

[Neuromancer]

If Allison didn't bleed until she was in the car (eg hit head, nose started to bleed eg) then GBC probably didn't even realise she was bleeding, this didn't feel the need to try to clean the captiva afterwards.

That's what I was just thinking about a bleed from nose. There may have been a slow bleed pooling unseen in the back of the nose /throat. Then she's been rolled over in the car and it ran out.

Looking at that bloodstain near the seat, there's not a huge amount, but it looks like it's run down the side fairly quickly. A small amount pouring out quickly would do that, whereas the same amount slowly oozing from a small wound would clot on itself and stay more in the one area, not have that whole volume running down at once, if that makes sense.

 

[AAAA]

That has to be the dirtiest, lowest, even lower than a snake's belly thing ever to suggest for a person who is unable to speak for herself.
In all probability, even if she had six girls, Allison was probably overjoyed about the birth of a son for Adam.
The birth of any child is miracle, a wonder, a joy, a reason to celebrate, praise God and rejoice.
Somebody ought to be deeply ashamed for daring to suggest this evil idea.
Some ugly twisted convoluted logic behind this evil suggestion.
To date we have not learned anything to suggest that the murdered lady suffered with jealousy, covetousness or any green-eyed monster type afflictions.
That, IMO is so far off the mark, it is blatantly slanderous.

I've been wondering about this. If my brother was on trial for murder, and I lived on the other side of the world, I would be there to support him in a flash, UNLESS I THOUGHT HE DID IT!!!!

 

[alioop]

I am still finding it hard to reconcile "no obvious cleanup" with Mrs Dickie's observation that seemed to suggest there had been a cleanup. I think she used the word clinical in her description of the home when she arrived there.

I think the difference is the police saw no scrubbed carpet patches for eg whereas Mrs Dickie saw a house that was very very tidy when it usually wasn't.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

I believe that GBC may have smothered her in bed. Remember the 000 call where he firstly mentioned "when we" went to bed, then changed it to I? Not a doctor, but am wondering if there is necessarily any blood when someone is smothered? If not, this may explain why there was no blood on the sheets. I believe he may have hit her in the head on something as he was trying to load her into the car. This may also have been the same time her tooth was chipped etc. If her head was hit, as has been mentioned in earlier threads, this may also account for the advanced state of decomposition in that area. IMO

There was an ep of the Simpsons whereby marge and homer go out to the car so they don't argue in front of the kids. Perhaps that's what happened here. They went to the car so they wouldn't disturb the kids if they got upset. Things get heated, escalate, struggle ensues, she scratches his face. He bashes her head in car hence transfer stain, and before you know is, she she is knocked out. He suffocates her then dumps body.

:twocents: moo

 

[AAAA]

Maybe I should ring the police again with my info?

Still catching up KJ but you could give it a try. Don't think they need it though, I reckon the defence just pulled that one up cause they're struggling. X

 

[Snails]

That's got me worried too. Was Allison dead or unconscious.

I'm trusting the police know because this has got me stumped.

Maybe a head injury could have occurred when "moving/placing/dumping" Allison's body in the car after the smothering in the house. GB-C strikes me as a "clumsy" kinda guy (i.e. shaving injury) for want of a better word.

 

[Snails]

Maybe a head injury could have occurred when "moving/placing/dumping" Allison's body in the car after the smothering in the house. GB-C strikes me as a "clumsy" kinda guy (i.e. shaving injury) for want of a better word.

PS - my "name" SNAILS - those last 5 letters are the most crucial piece of evidence in my opinion. Looking forward to a restful weekend before week three of the trial. Thank you to all the contributors. You're the best! X

 

[MadDoc]

I am still finding it hard to reconcile "no obvious cleanup" with Mrs Dickie's observation that seemed to suggest there had been a cleanup. I think she used the word clinical in her description of the home when she arrived there.

Depends what the B-C home usually looked like, compared to other similar homes, and Allison's usual housekeeping "style". I imagine that with 3 children it would normally be along the lines of "clean enough to be healthy, and dirty enough to be happy."

Mrs Dickie would have a good idea of what Allison's usual cleanup procedures were like.

If my mum called in to my house, she would be able to tell straight away if someone other than myself had cleaned up. In fact she often used to comment on it, on the occasions when I was able to get a cleaning lady in to help out, before I opened my mouth to say anything.

And if mum popped in and my place was much more clean than usual, and at a time when I was supposedly missing, then she would smell a rat straight away.

 

[possumheart]

That's a lot of blood (droplets?) with a distinct and similar pattern on both hubs
(previously I saw only a photo of one blood splattered hub..)

The 'pattern' and then lack of blood between the two hubs is baffling (to me).
Presumably when those seats are up there's no blood on them?

Doesn't say much for tarp and roping skills Messrs Baden-! IMO

I must be annoying as a late starter. Sorry.

We can always use some new blood :giggle: