The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 2nd July - Trial Day 14, Week 3
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PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011- Latest: Aegon_the_Conqueror
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Is the interfering with a corpse included?
Neuromancer
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Yes - and his eyebrow's higher on the right too.
And interestingly Allison's left eyebrow is noticably higher. Was present in their wedding photo too
A matter of left/right brain dominance?
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Ali surely if it got to a juror that would have been a mistrial or something. The judge would have to haul him over the coals for that!! Have you ever heard of such front?
So breaking news the theory re the blood in the vehicle then is Allison's mouth connected/hit that solid silver 'loop' breaking her tooth (tooth broke through lip to cause the bleed/blood)?
Makes perfect sense.
Thanks for that!
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Recap of MSM Brisbane Times Court Timeline posts from today in timeline order
Day 14
Posted along the thread today by Amee :loveyou:
-----
BRISBANE TIMES MSM
10:22am: The 14th day of the trial is under way in Court 11.
The trial is now being live streamed to two other court rooms, including the Banco Court, which seats 147 people.
The Banco Court, which is usually reserved for ceremonial occasions, was filled with curious court watchers yesterday.
10:22am: Gerard Baden-Clay has returned to the witness box to be cross-examined by Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC.
Mr Baden-Clay weathered more than three hours of intense questioning by Mr Fuller yesterday.
The former real estate agent is dressed in a dark suit with a blue tie and glasses.
10:22am: Mr Fuller has turned his questioning to Mr Baden-Clay's affair with his long-time mistress Toni McHugh.
"When did you tell your family of the affair?" Mr Fuller asked.
"When I was informed by someone in the media that they were going to be letting everybody know about it," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"I didn't anticipate that the police were going to inform the media [about the affair] but they did."
10:34am: Mr Fuller has asked Mr Baden-Clay why he chose to drive his wife's Holden Captiva to search for her on the morning she disappeared.
The Holden Captiva was parked in the car port that morning.
Mr Baden-Clay's white Toyota Prado was parked in the drive way in front of the car port.
"You would have had to reverse it [the Captiva] out around the Prado and down the driveway?" Mr Fuller asked.
"Yes. That was perfectly normal," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"There wasn't significant damage to the Prado?" Mr Fuller said.
"No. Someone side-swiped me," Mr Baden-Clay said.
"And when had that occurred?" Mr Fuller asked.
"On the Monday," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"So you'd been driving the vehicle on the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday," Mr Fuller said.
"Yes," Mr Baden-Clay said.
The court has previously heard Mr Baden-Clay had been involved in a minor car accident on the Monday morning.
"There was nothing to stop you taking the Prado?" Mr Fuller said.
"There was nothing to stop me taking the Prado with me, that's correct," Mr Baden-Clay said.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36Ghj1nqt
10:45am: "When did you first become aware that Allison had been found?" Mr Fuller asked.
Mr Baden-Clay said he was at his Taringa real estate office when news emerged that a body had been found under Kholo Creek bridge.
He said he phoned his lawyer Darren Mahony upon hearing the news.
Mr Baden-Clay then travelled to Brisbane's CBD where he met Mr Mahony and barrister Peter Davis.
"On the 30th of April we were at the office and a media came through somehow I don't recall how I then went, I think I may have called Darren, I must have spoken to Darren and asked if he knew anything, because the police had been liaising with him as well," Mr Baden-Clay said.
"He recommended that we meet together in the city and the police came and informed us at Peter Davis's chambers."
"The police told you that a body had been found," Mr Fuller said.
"And they confirmed it was Allison," Mr Baden-Clay said.
"I remember being physically shocked by that."
"They didn't tell you it was likely to be Allison or possible it could be Allison, they told you it was Allison," Mr Fuller said.
"Correct," Mr Baden-Clay said.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GjdQepe
10:54am: Mr Fuller: "What was the loss to you [financially] if you and Allison had separated?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "You're asking a lot of hypothetical questions that I've never really explored in detail myself so I'm not sure I can really answer that. Honestly, I can't answer that."
Mr Fuller: "There would have been financial consequences to you if you left your wife."
Mr Baden-Clay: "Yes ... If Allison and I had determined we were going to divorce ... I don't know how that would have played out, I honestly don't know."
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36Gj94r00
11:04am: Mr Fuller has turned his questioning again to the night of April 19, 2012.
Mr Baden-Clay's long-time mistress Toni McHugh was due to come face-to-face with Mrs Baden-Clay at a real estate conference the following day.
Mr Fuller: "You're double life would be exposed."
Mr Baden-Clay; "No."
Mr Fuller: "The facade that was Gerard Baden-Clay would fall wouldn't it?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "If what, sorry?"
Mr Fuller: "If Toni McHugh confronted Allison at the conference."
Mr Baden-Clay: "It never entered my head that that was a concern."
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GjwqTeM
10:34am: Mr Fuller has asked Mr Baden-Clay why he chose to drive his wife's Holden Captiva to search for her on the morning she disappeared.
The Holden Captiva was parked in the car port that morning.
Mr Baden-Clay's white Toyota Prado was parked in the drive way in front of the car port.
"You would have had to reverse it [the Captiva] out around the Prado and down the driveway?" Mr Fuller asked.
"Yes. That was perfectly normal," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"There wasn't significant damage to the Prado?" Mr Fuller said.
"No. Someone side-swiped me," Mr Baden-Clay said.
"And when had that occurred?" Mr Fuller asked.
"On the Monday," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"So you'd been driving the vehicle on the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday," Mr Fuller said.
"Yes," Mr Baden-Clay said.
The court has previously heard Mr Baden-Clay had been involved in a minor car accident on the Monday morning.
"There was nothing to stop you taking the Prado?" Mr Fuller said.
"There was nothing to stop me taking the Prado with me, that's correct," Mr Baden-Clay said.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GkHaa8C
11:20am: Mr Fuller: "You killed your wife, Mr Baden-Clay."
Mr Baden-Clay: "No, I did not."
The prosecutor put to Mr Baden-Clay that he had attacked his wife and the "only way" she could respond was to "lash out and claw his face".
"That is not true," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
Mr Fuller: "Probably as you smothered her and took her life from her."
Mr Baden-Clay: "That is not true. I never did anything to physically harm my wife in any way, ever."
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36Go2EowJ
11:25am: Mr Fuller suggested Mr Baden-Clay dragged his wife's body to the boot of her Holden Captiva and then drove to Kholo Creek at Anstead where he dumped her body "unceremoniously" to "hurry back" to his sleeping children in the middle of the night.
"The suggestion that I would leave my children for any time, in the middle of the night, is absurd, let alone do the dastardly things you're suggesting," Mr Baden-Clay replied
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GoxoYoo
11:27am: Mr Fuller then suggested the deed was done by 1.48am on April 20, 2012, when Mr Baden-Clay's iPhone was connected to his bedside charger.
Mr Baden-Clay denied that.
The 43-year-old also denied covering his "tracks" by putting boxes of toys into his wife's Captiva and shaving to create cuts along the bottom edges of the scratches on his face.
Mr Fuller suggested Mr Baden-Clay was "pretending" when he told police he was worried about his wife's whereabouts.
"I was a concerned husband and I am a very concerned father ... it's not a facade," Mr Baden-Clay said.
Mr Fuller concluded his cross-examination.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36Gq9PqAE
11:28am: Mr Baden-Clay has been briefly re-examined by his defence barrister Michael Byrne QC to clarify points raised in the cross-examination.
Mr Baden-Clay has been excused from the witness box.
The court has adjourned for a short morning tea break.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GwmdK8Z
11:56am: Court has resumed.
The defence team has called its first witness.
Ashton Ward has been called to the witness box. Mr Ward is the director of a Brisbane company called Khemistry which specialises in producing time lapse videos.
11:59am: The time lapse video showing the tides of Kholo Creek at Anstead has been played for the second time for the court.
The video was first shown to the jury during the opening address of defence counsel Michael Byrne QC.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GxZ9k2f
12:05pm: Forensic toxicologist Dr Michael Robertson has been called to the witness box.
Dr Robertson has been a toxicologist for the past two decades and practicing as a forensic toxicologist for the majority of the time.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GzEFpca
12:22pm: Mr Byrne asked Dr Robertson to comment on the adverse affects of the anti-depressent drug Zoloft of which the active component in the Serotonin.
Dr Robertson said elevated levels of Serotonin could cause "Seratonin toxicity" or "Serotonin syndrome" in patients.
"When you get too much of this drug you can get cases of more profound confusion, increased agitation, unusual behaviours ... elevated temperatures," he said.
Dr Robertson said the drug could promote "suicide ideation" in people using the medication.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36H3YITLZ
12:39pm: Dr Robertson has been cross-examined by Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC.
Mr Fuller suggested the levels of the drug Sertraline, sold as Zoloft, found in Mrs Baden-Clay's body did not cause her death.
"I can't necessarily agree with that completely," Dr Roberston said.
He said the could be various explanations for the elevated levels of Sertraline found in Mrs Baden-Clay's decomposing body.
"Whether they indirectly had involvement, I don't know," Dr Robertson said.
Mr Fuller said the levels of Sertraline in Mrs Baden-Clay's body was not consistent with levels typically reported in Sertraline-related deaths.
"Correct," Dr Robertson said.
Dr Robertson has been excused.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36H79hPAQ
12:44pm: Psychiatrist Dr Mark Schramm has been called to the witness box.
He reviewed Mrs Baden-Clay's medical records upon the request of the defence team. Dr Schramm chiefly works within the Queensland prison system but also has a private practice at Toowong.
His report was reviewed by Professor Diego De Leo, a suicidologist, based at Griffith University.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36H8uls00
12:53pm: Defence counsel Michael Byrne QC has asked Dr Schramm to comment on the nature of suicide.
Dr Schramm said more than half of people who committed suicide did not leave a note.
He recalled a well-respected study on suicide which he said found that "most people who took their lives did not leave a suicide note".
"One-tenth to one-third do not leave notes," Dr Schramm said.
Mr Baden-Clay has repeatedly pointed to his wife's history with depression to suggest she took her own life.
Anyone needing support can contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Mensline on 1300 789 978.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36HBdDgsA
12:56pm: Mr Byrne asked Dr Schramm to comment how often suicide was "unexpected".
"It's not uncommon that suicide, unfortunately, is a surprise," Dr Schramm said.
"It is also the case that very often, and unfortunately, suicide is a surprise and that even in retrospect it has been impossible to predict."
12:59pm: Dr Schramm has been cross-examined by Crown prosecutor Danny Boyle.
He conceded a woman's "maternal instinct" would be considered a factor that would prevent suicide.
He also conceded a person making "short and long term plans for the future" would also be considered a prevention factor.
Mr Boyle asked Dr Schramm about suicide in people who had been proactive in seeking help for depression and anxiety.
"Allison seemed to be a person who put her hand up and sought help," Dr Schramm said.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36HCOyXAV
1:08pm: "She suffered from major depression which is a major risk factor for suicide," Dr Schramm added.
"One could imagine that the stress associated with the problems in the marriage could have contributed to thoughts of suicide."
Anyone needing support can contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Mensline on 1300 789 978.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36HEgq4d6
-
Day 14
Posted along the thread today by Amee :loveyou:
-----
BRISBANE TIMES MSM
10:22am: The 14th day of the trial is under way in Court 11.
The trial is now being live streamed to two other court rooms, including the Banco Court, which seats 147 people.
The Banco Court, which is usually reserved for ceremonial occasions, was filled with curious court watchers yesterday.
10:22am: Gerard Baden-Clay has returned to the witness box to be cross-examined by Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC.
Mr Baden-Clay weathered more than three hours of intense questioning by Mr Fuller yesterday.
The former real estate agent is dressed in a dark suit with a blue tie and glasses.
10:22am: Mr Fuller has turned his questioning to Mr Baden-Clay's affair with his long-time mistress Toni McHugh.
"When did you tell your family of the affair?" Mr Fuller asked.
"When I was informed by someone in the media that they were going to be letting everybody know about it," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"I didn't anticipate that the police were going to inform the media [about the affair] but they did."
10:34am: Mr Fuller has asked Mr Baden-Clay why he chose to drive his wife's Holden Captiva to search for her on the morning she disappeared.
The Holden Captiva was parked in the car port that morning.
Mr Baden-Clay's white Toyota Prado was parked in the drive way in front of the car port.
"You would have had to reverse it [the Captiva] out around the Prado and down the driveway?" Mr Fuller asked.
"Yes. That was perfectly normal," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"There wasn't significant damage to the Prado?" Mr Fuller said.
"No. Someone side-swiped me," Mr Baden-Clay said.
"And when had that occurred?" Mr Fuller asked.
"On the Monday," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"So you'd been driving the vehicle on the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday," Mr Fuller said.
"Yes," Mr Baden-Clay said.
The court has previously heard Mr Baden-Clay had been involved in a minor car accident on the Monday morning.
"There was nothing to stop you taking the Prado?" Mr Fuller said.
"There was nothing to stop me taking the Prado with me, that's correct," Mr Baden-Clay said.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36Ghj1nqt
10:45am: "When did you first become aware that Allison had been found?" Mr Fuller asked.
Mr Baden-Clay said he was at his Taringa real estate office when news emerged that a body had been found under Kholo Creek bridge.
He said he phoned his lawyer Darren Mahony upon hearing the news.
Mr Baden-Clay then travelled to Brisbane's CBD where he met Mr Mahony and barrister Peter Davis.
"On the 30th of April we were at the office and a media came through somehow I don't recall how I then went, I think I may have called Darren, I must have spoken to Darren and asked if he knew anything, because the police had been liaising with him as well," Mr Baden-Clay said.
"He recommended that we meet together in the city and the police came and informed us at Peter Davis's chambers."
"The police told you that a body had been found," Mr Fuller said.
"And they confirmed it was Allison," Mr Baden-Clay said.
"I remember being physically shocked by that."
"They didn't tell you it was likely to be Allison or possible it could be Allison, they told you it was Allison," Mr Fuller said.
"Correct," Mr Baden-Clay said.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GjdQepe
10:54am: Mr Fuller: "What was the loss to you [financially] if you and Allison had separated?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "You're asking a lot of hypothetical questions that I've never really explored in detail myself so I'm not sure I can really answer that. Honestly, I can't answer that."
Mr Fuller: "There would have been financial consequences to you if you left your wife."
Mr Baden-Clay: "Yes ... If Allison and I had determined we were going to divorce ... I don't know how that would have played out, I honestly don't know."
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36Gj94r00
11:04am: Mr Fuller has turned his questioning again to the night of April 19, 2012.
Mr Baden-Clay's long-time mistress Toni McHugh was due to come face-to-face with Mrs Baden-Clay at a real estate conference the following day.
Mr Fuller: "You're double life would be exposed."
Mr Baden-Clay; "No."
Mr Fuller: "The facade that was Gerard Baden-Clay would fall wouldn't it?"
Mr Baden-Clay: "If what, sorry?"
Mr Fuller: "If Toni McHugh confronted Allison at the conference."
Mr Baden-Clay: "It never entered my head that that was a concern."
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GjwqTeM
10:34am: Mr Fuller has asked Mr Baden-Clay why he chose to drive his wife's Holden Captiva to search for her on the morning she disappeared.
The Holden Captiva was parked in the car port that morning.
Mr Baden-Clay's white Toyota Prado was parked in the drive way in front of the car port.
"You would have had to reverse it [the Captiva] out around the Prado and down the driveway?" Mr Fuller asked.
"Yes. That was perfectly normal," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"There wasn't significant damage to the Prado?" Mr Fuller said.
"No. Someone side-swiped me," Mr Baden-Clay said.
"And when had that occurred?" Mr Fuller asked.
"On the Monday," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
"So you'd been driving the vehicle on the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday," Mr Fuller said.
"Yes," Mr Baden-Clay said.
The court has previously heard Mr Baden-Clay had been involved in a minor car accident on the Monday morning.
"There was nothing to stop you taking the Prado?" Mr Fuller said.
"There was nothing to stop me taking the Prado with me, that's correct," Mr Baden-Clay said.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GkHaa8C
11:20am: Mr Fuller: "You killed your wife, Mr Baden-Clay."
Mr Baden-Clay: "No, I did not."
The prosecutor put to Mr Baden-Clay that he had attacked his wife and the "only way" she could respond was to "lash out and claw his face".
"That is not true," Mr Baden-Clay replied.
Mr Fuller: "Probably as you smothered her and took her life from her."
Mr Baden-Clay: "That is not true. I never did anything to physically harm my wife in any way, ever."
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36Go2EowJ
11:25am: Mr Fuller suggested Mr Baden-Clay dragged his wife's body to the boot of her Holden Captiva and then drove to Kholo Creek at Anstead where he dumped her body "unceremoniously" to "hurry back" to his sleeping children in the middle of the night.
"The suggestion that I would leave my children for any time, in the middle of the night, is absurd, let alone do the dastardly things you're suggesting," Mr Baden-Clay replied
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GoxoYoo
11:27am: Mr Fuller then suggested the deed was done by 1.48am on April 20, 2012, when Mr Baden-Clay's iPhone was connected to his bedside charger.
Mr Baden-Clay denied that.
The 43-year-old also denied covering his "tracks" by putting boxes of toys into his wife's Captiva and shaving to create cuts along the bottom edges of the scratches on his face.
Mr Fuller suggested Mr Baden-Clay was "pretending" when he told police he was worried about his wife's whereabouts.
"I was a concerned husband and I am a very concerned father ... it's not a facade," Mr Baden-Clay said.
Mr Fuller concluded his cross-examination.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36Gq9PqAE
11:28am: Mr Baden-Clay has been briefly re-examined by his defence barrister Michael Byrne QC to clarify points raised in the cross-examination.
Mr Baden-Clay has been excused from the witness box.
The court has adjourned for a short morning tea break.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GwmdK8Z
11:56am: Court has resumed.
The defence team has called its first witness.
Ashton Ward has been called to the witness box. Mr Ward is the director of a Brisbane company called Khemistry which specialises in producing time lapse videos.
11:59am: The time lapse video showing the tides of Kholo Creek at Anstead has been played for the second time for the court.
The video was first shown to the jury during the opening address of defence counsel Michael Byrne QC.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GxZ9k2f
12:05pm: Forensic toxicologist Dr Michael Robertson has been called to the witness box.
Dr Robertson has been a toxicologist for the past two decades and practicing as a forensic toxicologist for the majority of the time.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36GzEFpca
12:22pm: Mr Byrne asked Dr Robertson to comment on the adverse affects of the anti-depressent drug Zoloft of which the active component in the Serotonin.
Dr Robertson said elevated levels of Serotonin could cause "Seratonin toxicity" or "Serotonin syndrome" in patients.
"When you get too much of this drug you can get cases of more profound confusion, increased agitation, unusual behaviours ... elevated temperatures," he said.
Dr Robertson said the drug could promote "suicide ideation" in people using the medication.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36H3YITLZ
12:39pm: Dr Robertson has been cross-examined by Crown prosecutor Todd Fuller QC.
Mr Fuller suggested the levels of the drug Sertraline, sold as Zoloft, found in Mrs Baden-Clay's body did not cause her death.
"I can't necessarily agree with that completely," Dr Roberston said.
He said the could be various explanations for the elevated levels of Sertraline found in Mrs Baden-Clay's decomposing body.
"Whether they indirectly had involvement, I don't know," Dr Robertson said.
Mr Fuller said the levels of Sertraline in Mrs Baden-Clay's body was not consistent with levels typically reported in Sertraline-related deaths.
"Correct," Dr Robertson said.
Dr Robertson has been excused.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36H79hPAQ
12:44pm: Psychiatrist Dr Mark Schramm has been called to the witness box.
He reviewed Mrs Baden-Clay's medical records upon the request of the defence team. Dr Schramm chiefly works within the Queensland prison system but also has a private practice at Toowong.
His report was reviewed by Professor Diego De Leo, a suicidologist, based at Griffith University.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36H8uls00
12:53pm: Defence counsel Michael Byrne QC has asked Dr Schramm to comment on the nature of suicide.
Dr Schramm said more than half of people who committed suicide did not leave a note.
He recalled a well-respected study on suicide which he said found that "most people who took their lives did not leave a suicide note".
"One-tenth to one-third do not leave notes," Dr Schramm said.
Mr Baden-Clay has repeatedly pointed to his wife's history with depression to suggest she took her own life.
Anyone needing support can contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Mensline on 1300 789 978.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36HBdDgsA
12:56pm: Mr Byrne asked Dr Schramm to comment how often suicide was "unexpected".
"It's not uncommon that suicide, unfortunately, is a surprise," Dr Schramm said.
"It is also the case that very often, and unfortunately, suicide is a surprise and that even in retrospect it has been impossible to predict."
12:59pm: Dr Schramm has been cross-examined by Crown prosecutor Danny Boyle.
He conceded a woman's "maternal instinct" would be considered a factor that would prevent suicide.
He also conceded a person making "short and long term plans for the future" would also be considered a prevention factor.
Mr Boyle asked Dr Schramm about suicide in people who had been proactive in seeking help for depression and anxiety.
"Allison seemed to be a person who put her hand up and sought help," Dr Schramm said.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36HCOyXAV
1:08pm: "She suffered from major depression which is a major risk factor for suicide," Dr Schramm added.
"One could imagine that the stress associated with the problems in the marriage could have contributed to thoughts of suicide."
Anyone needing support can contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Mensline on 1300 789 978.
Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...#ixzz36HEgq4d6
-
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Now I am sure he is mentally ill.
He passed ... a ... note?
omfg
He passed ... a ... note?
omfg
I dont know about left/right dominance but he is certainly a controlling
- just something I noticed from the get go that eye is larger than the other one I wonder if this was the eye that was red at cross country? maybe he has some eye problem ? <modsnip>
itsthevibe
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alioop has just explained that they can find him guilty of manslaughter - on the same page as your post.
itsthevibe
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Yes I do remember that and there was a lot of discussion about that. Thoughts were that if it was true that he killed her in the heat of the moment but it was much more stressful for him because the planning hadnt been done properly and so a few details weren't taken care of or predicted.
Neuromancer
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Thanks for that great summary FT
Just thinking of Her Honour's observation last night that GBH protesteth loudest on the most pertinent points:
Neuromancer
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itsthevibe
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OMG - did this happen? I wasn't in court until lunchtime. Why hasnt this been a bigger deal - on here and in the media. what could he have written and wouldnt it be considered an attempt to pervert the course of justice?
Baby monitor in the garage still makes me squirm that is 101 in the NPD book when partner on phone to friends and family hang around like a bad smell evesdropping on their conversations to make sure they are not telling family friends about what NPD's are doing to them....... my NPD used to follow me around the house room to room listening to my calls to my mum especially - Mrs Dickie said the same thing he could listen into her phone calls thru that monitor ... if you tell your family about the NPD's abuse he will find a way to make you pay ...... you pay dearly for your disloyalty ........ sometimes with your life - once you out him and/or you are not providing the supply he needs to maintain the facade of who he is ie. if you make him see who he really is well the rage that erupts is mind blowing it comes out of nowhere its the most scariest thing I have ever seen in my life ........... there were two things that saved my life 1. it was daytime when the rage exploded 2) my children were in the house and awake even then I was nearly killed it was only their crying and distress that snapped him out it......... what set it off I grabbed the phone to call the police ......... this time I actually dialled the no.
their reputation is everything to them the public one you threaten that you will be very badly hurt ..............
their reputation is everything to them the public one you threaten that you will be very badly hurt ..............
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Oh gosh. So scary. You poor thing!
IMO he was thinking and planning it but I truly believe Al (remember getting stronger Al back working Al) said something and stuck up for herself told him what she really thought of him challenged his perception of himself this hasnt probably happened before she putting up the mirror to his face and him not being able to see a reflection in it - a bit like a vampire (ie sucking the life right out of you vampires they are) and he exploded in a rage and killed her, then after the rage subsided the coward and all bullies are cowards went into must save my skin mode ie. hence coverup.
Laidan..
I completely missed your terrific post in response to my plea for detail re the voices and posture of the prosecutor etc.. I hope you get this thankyou.. it told me everything I wanted to know and a hell of a lot more.
*appreciated *
I completely missed your terrific post in response to my plea for detail re the voices and posture of the prosecutor etc.. I hope you get this thankyou.. it told me everything I wanted to know and a hell of a lot more.
*appreciated *
I recall that little cameo too.. it was from a verified Brookfield person , I am pretty sure.. The timeline re the month.. it being a month early I vividly recall.. damned if I can remember who it was, though..
Ive never heard of a defendant doing that before.. never seen it in any trial I have attended, never heard any friends in the profession speak of it.. and they would , if they had ever seen or heard of it happening..
lots of sleuthers made wild and crazed suggestions of what he might have written...
I cant get over the fact that he actually tried it on. That he actually thought he was entitled to do it.. it still staggers me.
Neuromancer
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That's how I've imagined it too - plotted but then thoughts became reality earlier than expected, hence the messy coverup. Fit of rage at threatened divorce would be my guess - that seems like a big enough narcissistic wound to set it off, also since that would threaten the insurance and set a new, instant deadline in his mind. Ugh.
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