The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 8th July - Trial Day 16

[FigTree]

Originally Posted by Thinking View Post
My thoughts on this have always been that Allison was wearing her daggies after a big day (I know the pants are huge,but could have been from pregnancy days, I confess I have been known to wear such things when having a lazy night in), and the kids just presumed they were what they would call her pyjamas, as mine probably would if they saw me at night lying on the couch in such attire. It wasn't her walking gear, it was her lazy night in gear. I don't think he changed her - at a stretch I think he may have put her shoes on if she didn't already have them on. I thought this was what Fuller was getting at too. Would be interested to see others thoughts, I could be way off! Will have to do a re-read. I think GBC mentioning the pyjamas at this late stage may have been on the back of hearing his daughter mention them in her interview - to throw PT off - who knows. Funny they were never mentioned until then.

Well said Thinking and I totally agree. I suggested last year some time that Allison probably came home and dressed in her comfy clothes that doubled as pj's. One of the girls said that Allison was wearing her pyjamas but didn't describe the colour etc. GBC seized on this and embellished it all, as he's want to do. He fell flat on his face with that one too. :jail:

The daughters interviews with Police were played to the Jury on Days 2, 3 & 4.
The description of clothing and pyjamas was mixed.

15th witness: Daughter said -
She said her mum was wearing a jacket and a jumper when she last saw her.


17th witness: Daughter said -
“Mum always got, she always wears lots of jumpers because she gets cold … so she had grey tracksuit pants and her tracksuit jumper and just normal runners, not fancy ones.
“They are just normal white with blue on them.”
-----
The girl said her mum usually wore relaxed pyjama pants and a top when she went to bed, while her dad wore an old top and boxer shorts.
-----
She said she usually wore her heart or star pyjamas or, her silk doggy shorts and a pink monkey T-shirt, when she went to bed.
The girl said her mum usually wore a T-shirt and pants to bed.


Another daughter interview was played to Jury:
She said - She said her mother wore pyjamas when she went to bed.



The only person describing what Allison was wearing was GBC
Baden-Clay said his wife was wearing blue and white chequered pyjamas, with a sloppy joe and blue hiking socks that she would usually wear around the house.
He said he did not see her wearing anything else.
“When we got home she was already changed into that,” he said of her pyjamas.

When questioned on day 11 GBC said:
He said he did not see his wife’s pyjamas when he woke up that morning.
“Well the, the, I don’t know where her pyjamas were, they may have been in the laundry basket, I don’t know but her shoes were missing and one of the pairs of leggings she tended to wear when she went walking wasn’t there,” he said.


What is extraordinary is that he could determine that 'one' of the pairs of leggings wasn't there.
And he forgot to mention the Blue hiking socks
importantly he forgot to mention that he said he knew Allison had a top on under the Sloppy Joe.

3:39pm: Mr Baden-Clay said his wife was wearing her pyjamas as they spoke on the couch that night.
"She had a sloppy joe of some sort over the top"...


I think he has dressed her in a way to match his story.
Replace pants, socks and add walking shoes.

 

[Susan12]

Newbie here but have been following since the beginning as I knew one of Alison's relatives and was with her on the day she was notified she was missing. Haven't commented to avoid saying something I shouldn't. While I've only been reading the threads here on what was said in court today, I can't help but think that Fuller missed a very damning piece of evidence. I can't recall what was said exactly, but if my recollection is correct, didn't one of the girls say that the toys were in the shed/carport? waiting to be picked up by someone/charity? Happy for someone to dismiss that as I don't have time to go and search the records.

Fuller spent a bit of time on this in his closing. He said the girls had said they put their school bags in the back of the car the day before and there were no toys in the car. He said Allison got back from the hairdresser late so it was unlikely she put them in then. Also he said she had planned to drop off dresses to her friend the next day so further unlikely she would fill the back of the car with toys. He suggested it was to be a subtle touch and Gerard put them in. Fuller sounds to have been pretty thorough so far in his closing.

 

[marlywings]

So when TF mentions that allison didn't jump as she didn't have the considerable injuries that would eventuate, would not she have injuries if she was rolled off the ledge? Is there much of a difference in height? Why would she not actually have any injuries from that fall.

Is it the theory that doc Watson put forward where when bodies are incapacitated (drunks, unconscious, dead) you don't fall as hard? But surely there's be something to indicate such a fall? Can anyone comment on the size differential on a drop from the ledge vs a drop from bridge?

The ground underneath may have been relatively soft & her body just rolled down into the mud...

The cement ledge is visible in this pic...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226948779375

 

[they'll get you]

I think he had all intentions of staying with Toni - as long as Toni didn't run out of money.
As long as he kept saying 'I love you' to her - the more chance he had of getting his hands on money.
She was his last line of credit.
I think its just another thing that says 'its all about the Money'.

It's intrigued me the circumstances TMCH's marriage broke down.
Sprung?

 

[FigTree]

I also just realized that GBC left the house that night -
He went downstairs - after the girls had gone to bed.

I hasn't been mentioned in the Court, but I'm now just musing after reading that from their Investigation, the Police thought it was pre-meditated

 

[Susan12]

I think it was alioop that said in Australia intent is if you know you're killing someone even if you didn't plan it ages before, that right? I guess the prosecution can therefore say, as they are, that intent is proven by the fingernail marks on his face and scratches on his body. He knew he was hurting her and she was struggling and trying to get him to let go desperately, he knew he was killing her. Suffocating someone wouldn't be super fast. I think suffocation was probably cause of death, explaining the relative quietness of it and the reason for her needing to claw at him, and the blood in the car was a later injury to the body trying to get her in or out or someone mentioned some bleeding that can come from the mouth? This would be consistent with the autopsy. Could have started using a pillow over her mouth while she slept then she woke, broke free for a sec screaming as the neighbours heard (kids deeply asleep and the briefness if it didn't wake them) because he wasn't expecting her to wake and was using lighter pressure then he grabs stronger with it (explaining the sudden cut off to the scream heard) and she fights for her life the only way she can causing the injuries to GBC. Then after death he drags her to the car, explaining the plants. Another possibility is not while she slept but she said something he didn't like and he grabbed her.

I hope the prosecution mention that his calling the police early was also suspicious. As they started to get to in cross examination of GBC he didn't call her friends or family or talk to neighbours and yet called his own. He calls police less than a half our after his first casual 'morning hello where are you' type text isn't responded to. That is nuts. No one calls police so soon without evidence suggesting they should worry and certainly not before calling her family or friends to see if she had called. Then he says to police he expects her back any second so isn't that worried yet he called them so soon and is already giving them information about his affair etc. It's to look innocent but the nature of all that I'd another thing that shows suspicious and doubt over his claims. They could mention that as I don't think I heard them do that today?

 

[Fluffykins]

It would be quite uncalled for to send underwear in the mail - and said items would probably be forensically tested, and your DNA found. Best keep it to boxes of chocolates and bunches of sunflowers.

Maybe we should start up a fund to shout him a bottle of the finest Moët or Krug or whatever. He certainly deserves to let his hair down, so to speak, once it's all over.

 

[FigTree]

Fuller spent a bit of time on this in his closing. He said the girls had said they put their school bags in the back of the car the day before and there were no toys in the car. He said Allison got back from the hairdresser late so it was unlikely she put them in then. Also he said she had planned to drop off dresses to her friend the next day so further unlikely she would fill the back of the car with toys. He suggested it was to be a subtle touch and Gerard put them in. Fuller sounds to have been pretty thorough so far in his closing.

Yes, I think he has actually closed some loops that GBC could have manipulated - he has been very thorough indeed.
By GBC's own admission (lying as if he had it all worked out like clockwork) GBC has cornered himself into a cell.

 

[Tishy]

The ground underneath may have been relatively soft & her body just rolled down into the mud...

The cement ledge is visible in this pic...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226948779375

Entirely OT (thanks for the photo Marlywings) but the cracks in that bridge don't exactly inspire confidence about its safety...

 

[missfisher]

Thanks!!!! Sorry if I came across a bit strong

I lived the next road over in Deerhurst Rd.

No, not at all

 

[they'll get you]

We may never find out - but I would so like to know what brought police to the home so quickly that morning. Realistically, would calling police to say your partner was half an hour or so late returning from a walk bring them to the home almost immediately? No, I wouldn't think so. I know this has been discussed at length - and is hardly relevant at this point - BUT the question of what brought the police there so quickly is one that keeps coming back to me.

I've been waiting for the prosecution to say there was prior domestic violence within the BC family, nothing yet. Does NBC or BC's have a gun licence because that'll send the police out quick smart. 000 operators are mostly seasoned professionals and maybe noted 'just that little something' in his voice.
Maybe the police just happened to have a car close by on a quiet morning.
Either way thank goodness for Kieron Ash.

 

[kiwijayne]

Entirely OT (thanks for the photo Marlywings) but the cracks in that bridge don't exactly inspire confidence about its safety...

Makes me think of GBC's defence and sadly my hometown Christchurch

 

[Fluffykins]

Fuller spent a bit of time on this in his closing. He said the girls had said they put their school bags in the back of the car the day before and there were no toys in the car. He said Allison got back from the hairdresser late so it was unlikely she put them in then. Also he said she had planned to drop off dresses to her friend the next day so further unlikely she would fill the back of the car with toys. He suggested it was to be a subtle touch and Gerard put them in. Fuller sounds to have been pretty thorough so far in his closing.

Yes, that was a terrific argument, wasn't it? TF was thinking it through from Allisons perspective and making perfectly logical deductions as to what she would and wouldn't do. Gotta hand it to the man.

 

[they'll get you]

I agree. Size 12 top with XXL pants is huge discrepancy....even if lounging around home

My Nike workout pants run very small sizing. I am a size 10 but I purchased XL because I preferred them looser rather the design of skin tight. The shopkeeper others wore them like that too. They're years old and mega comfy because sometimes at home, I don't give a damn.

 

[Kimster]

I am extremely impressed with Fuller. If I am murdered, please have him speak for me in summation. He is truly Allison's angel. :rose:

 

[Freya1977]

Maybe we should start up a fund to shout him a bottle of the finest Moët or Krug or whatever. He certainly deserves to let his hair down, so to speak, once it's all over.

Screw that, we should all get together and drink the moet ourselves!

 

[Freya1977]

Makes me think of GBC's defence and sadly my hometown Christchurch

I love Christchurch, such a beautiful city. I've not seen it since the earthquake... So sad.

 

[itsthevibe]

I am extremely impressed with Fuller. If I am murdered, please have him speak for me in summation. He is truly Allison's angel. :rose:

As serious as this whole sad affair is - somehow your phrase "If I am murdered" makes me laugh. Kimster you are such a character. You will not be murdered!

Yes, i agree he is doing a wonderful job now - brilliant. I hope Allison is watching down on all of this and is feeling as hopeful as we are. Or perhaps as an angel she is not concerning herself about anything at all and is simply in a state of nirvana - I certainly hope so, she deserves it after what she has gone through.

 

[Freya1977]

Thanks to Amee, Drsleuth, PrimeSuspect and Forensics for the tweets and media coverage of today's proceedings. I've only just got through them all.

What a fabulous job Todd "The Fox" Fuller is doing. He has truly given Allison a voice.

I've been on the fence about whether the jury will return a guilty verdict or not. I've been thinking it may be a hung jury.

After now hearing almost all of the trial I'm feeling a lot more confident that they will come to a unanimous guilty verdict.

I also think that the PT might be WS lurkers!

 

[Fluffykins]

I am extremely impressed with Fuller. If I am murdered, please have him speak for me in summation. He is truly Allison's angel. :rose:

I sincerely hope that won't be necessary, Kimster. Don't go doing anything rash, will you? No making any citizen's arrests in the middle of armed robberies or anything like that! :hand: