The Establishment Paedophile: How a Monster hid in High Society

[White Rain]

Oh, no I'm not and sorry I didn't say that in my post. I was responding to the linked story and how people were supporting the man just because he had done good works and things to help the community. I hadn't even read all the posts and didn't read your fears that people would condemn your GM or I wouldn't have even posted at all for fear that it would be misunderstood or that I would be rude. I'm sorry if my post further upset you and I need to remember you read all of the previous posts instead of just the first one and parts of the last page.

You don't need to apologize. I was pretty sure you didn't mean my granny anyway.

 

[ziggy]

OK, I'll probably get flamed like mad, but I just have to vent...

I have cure - I would force him to look at his own sick pictures and then cut an inch off his penis a day while doing it. When his penis was gone, then we'd go for a piece of sack. Then destroy his prostate. He would associate those pictures and actions with unimaginable pain. Then I'd go for findernails, toenails, teeth. When he is reduced to a shell, he can stay locked up in a cell and rot for the rest of his life. Death would be too kind.

 

[dingo]

And all that still probably wouldnt cure the sicko Ziggy...death is the only cure for them..imo

 

[White Rain]

OK, I'll probably get flamed like mad, but I just have to vent...

I have cure - I would force him to look at his own sick pictures and then cut an inch off his penis a day while doing it. When his penis was gone, then we'd go for a piece of sack. Then destroy his prostate. He would associate those pictures and actions with unimaginable pain. Then I'd go for findernails, toenails, teeth. When he is reduced to a shell, he can stay locked up in a cell and rot for the rest of his life. Death would be too kind.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

 

[southcitymom]

That is a very kind thing for you to say; thank you.

I have no objection to putting a pedophile in prison for life. I believe they are broken in some fundamental way and we, as a society, really don't know how to fix them. For the greater good, they must be separated from everyone else, particularly children.

I would like to see prisons for those who are being imprisoned for life made comfortable. To be imprisoned is to be deprived of the vast majority of things that make life worth living (for most people, anyway).

Such imprisonment is not really punishment because inherent in the definition of punishment is that it is intended to change future behaviour. Since these prisoners are being forcibly prevented from committing those crimes for life, it's not punishment. It's more akin to keeping animals in a zoo.

I really hope that someday, someone does figure out how to fix pedophiles. Until then, life imprisonment seems like the most ethical option available.

Grainne Dhu,

I very much appreciate your posts on this subject. I agree with everything you have written.

I have said before and will say again - I can't even imagine what life would be like if acting on my primary sexual orientation would always harm another person, a child. I'd like to tell myself that I'm a good enough human that I just wouldn't act on it, but frankly I've harmed people in the name of satisfying my "normal" sexual desires, so I have my doubts...

I think we will learn how to fix pedophelia when we learn how to fix other sexual orientations, so I am not currently optimistic that this is doable. I agree with you that life imprisonment of offenders is the best option for us all.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

So your advocating cultural sensitivity on behalf of sexual predators?
I hope Im misunderstanding what your saying because that is political correctness to the point of madness.
The difference between a child rapist and an embezzeler is relative???
No.It isnt.
Im sure Took and others like him would take great comfort in that notion.
And yes if your going to equate the injustice you obviously suffered for no good reason to the point of emotional tranference on behalf of this animal
'overly sensitive' doesnt even come close.
Ill save my compassion for his helpless five year old victims.
Anyone who deliberately decides to harm a child to satisfy their lust is not part of humanity as I understand it.
I have to be honest I find the groundswell of empathy and support for Mr. Took demonstrated in this thread disturbing in the extreme.

I was raped by a school counsellor when I was 12 years old, so I have empathy for the child victims. I don't know exactly how they feel; no one but the individual victim knows that. I know how I felt and I know how long it took for me to recover and how difficult it was/is.

What I am saying is that to draw a line between an individual sapiens or group of sapiens and the rest of sapiens is a very dangerous thing to do. It is a road down which lay horrors like the Holocaust, Bosnia, Rwanda, Darfur. It is exactly the same reasoning that violent criminals use to rationalise their crimes: they do not consider their victims to be fully human.

I have come to realise that the man who raped me over 40 years ago was a broken human being. He hurt me terribly and felt no apparent remorse in doing so. In fact, he blamed me for what he did to me. It took a long time before I realised that not only was he broken such that he could cause great pain to others, he was broken such that he could not share in some of the deepest joys that most people are allowed.

When I realised that, I pitied him.

Pity doesn't mean that I think he or Took should be allowed to go free and harm others. It does mean that I believe they should be safely confined away from society. Being confined means being deprived of most of the things that make life worth living, so I see no need to make confinement any more awful than it has to be.

I want to live in a world where things like genocide are unthinkable. Where things like deliberately harming another human being is as unthinkable as deliberately throwing one's self into the pit of a volcano. I want to live in a world where any human being that is broken can be fixed.

Since I want to live in that world, it behooves me to take what steps I can towards creating that world.

 

[kline]

Im certainly sorry to hear such a terrible thing happened to you.
It would be a wonderful thing if these people who commit these atrocities on children were capable of posessing a tenth of the compassion that you obviously posess in spite of what youve been through.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Im certainly sorry to hear such a terrible thing happened to you.
It would be a wonderful thing if these people who commit these atrocities on children were capable of posessing a tenth of the compassion that you obviously posess in spite of what youve been through.

Thank you.

That predators do not have compassion (or a fully formed sense of compassion) is one of the saddest things I can imagine for another human being.

Without compassion, there is no empathy. Without empathy, there is no ability to cry with happiness at weddings for the young couple starting out. They can't know what it is like to take a walk with a three year old and see the same old world through three year old eyes. They can't give a gift to a loved one and feel the joy the recipient feels.

I have come to believe, through research and life experience, that such people live in an emotional world that is painted in tones of grey while everyone else gets to enjoy a rainbow.

They should not be allowed to harm others but I do pity them. I've had animals all my life (dogs, cats, birds, horses). If an animal were injured and then hurt me by striking out in pain, I'd take steps not to be injured further but I would feel pity that the animal was in such pain.

It's difficult for me to explain (obviously).

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I think we will learn how to fix pedophelia when we learn how to fix other sexual orientations, so I am not currently optimistic that this is doable. I agree with you that life imprisonment of offenders is the best option for us all.

My hope and belief is that pedophilia (and necrophilia, etc) are not sexual orientations in the same way heterosexuality, bisexuality or homosexuality are. I don't think any adult who is attracted to other consenting adults needs to be fixed.

My hope is that pedophilia is the result of some sort of early childhood accident, some accidental pairing of sexual desire or satisfaction with the image of a child. If this is so, then fixing that accidental pairing may be possible.

 

[southcitymom]

My hope and belief is that pedophilia (and necrophilia, etc) are not sexual orientations in the same way heterosexuality, bisexuality or homosexuality are. I don't think any adult who is attracted to other consenting adults needs to be fixed.

My hope is that pedophilia is the result of some sort of early childhood accident, some accidental pairing of sexual desire or satisfaction with the image of a child. If this is so, then fixing that accidental pairing may be possible.

I hear you, Grainne Dhu. Like other paraphilias (bestiality, etc..), I believe pedophelia has nature and nurture components. However, I believe its root is in nature. I still have not seen anything that makes me hope that genuine pedophelia, but I surely don't know everything and it is nice to think you might be correct.

The truth is we should study it so that we may learn and know more and effect help and healing where it is possible.

 

[southcitymom]

Thank you.

That predators do not have compassion (or a fully formed sense of compassion) is one of the saddest things I can imagine for another human being.

Without compassion, there is no empathy. Without empathy, there is no ability to cry with happiness at weddings for the young couple starting out. They can't know what it is like to take a walk with a three year old and see the same old world through three year old eyes. They can't give a gift to a loved one and feel the joy the recipient feels.

I have come to believe, through research and life experience, that such people live in an emotional world that is painted in tones of grey while everyone else gets to enjoy a rainbow.

They should not be allowed to harm others but I do pity them. I've had animals all my life (dogs, cats, birds, horses). If an animal were injured and then hurt me by striking out in pain, I'd take steps not to be injured further but I would feel pity that the animal was in such pain.

It's difficult for me to explain (obviously).

You're doing an excellent job of explaining it. There is no peace or joy to be found in harming others. I feel compassion, empathy and sadness for anyone who walks in such darkness.

 

[Kiki]

You are an inspirational person, Grainne Dhu. :clap: :rose:

 

[gine]

Pedophiles are sociopaths. They are master manipulators and just plain not right in the head. There is no cure or "fix" for a pedophile, not even castration. (They do use other limbs or instruments)...They have an insatiable lust for children that will never go away. They WILL repeat their crime again and again given the first chance, and most often than not, they are always planning or scheming of how to get to another child.

I don't see any reason Took's "good" he did in life can even be considered. Punishment and the law is based on the illegals he is doing. He's not being hauled to jail/court because he is a good person. That's the persona a pedophile works hard to let others see. They WANT people to see their "pretend" good side.

How else would unsuspecting parents so willingly think a pedophile is ok to be around their child.. the good side is only one of many lies they tell.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Ciara]

My hope and belief is that pedophilia (and necrophilia, etc) are not sexual orientations in the same way heterosexuality, bisexuality or homosexuality are. I don't think any adult who is attracted to other consenting adults needs to be fixed.

My hope is that pedophilia is the result of some sort of early childhood accident, some accidental pairing of sexual desire or satisfaction with the image of a child. If this is so, then fixing that accidental pairing may be possible.

According to many paedophiles I have read, they do say its their sexual orientation and some are even fighting to have it recognised as such. There is even a political party in Holland set up by them specifically for this purpose.
I do not accept that it is something that can be healed or fixed. That approach is definately not working so far thats for sure.

 

[southcitymom]

Pedophiles are sociopaths. They are master manipulators and just plain not right in the head. There is no cure or "fix" for a pedophile, not even castration. (They do use other limbs or instruments)...They have an insatiable lust for children that will never go away. They WILL repeat their crime again and again given the first chance, and most often than not, they are always planning or scheming of how to get to another child.

I don't see any reason Took's "good" he did in life can even be considered. Punishment and the law is based on the illegals he is doing. He's not being hauled to jail/court because he is a good person. That's the persona a pedophile works hard to let others see. They WANT people to see their "pretend" good side.

How else would unsuspecting parents so willingly think a pedophile is ok to be around their child.. the good side is only one of many lies they tell.

Terrific post. How do you determine that Took's good side is the pretend one and his bad side is the authentic one? Is the evil we do stronger than the good we do? Could it be that Took, like all humans, is an authentic mix of good and bad?

I prefer that people see my good side also. Am I pretending just because I have a very real bad side? So many questions!!!:crazy:

 

[dingo]

Terrific post. How do you determine that Took's good side is the pretend one and his bad side is the authentic one? Is the evil we do stronger than the good we do? Could it be that Took, like all humans, is an authentic mix of good and bad?

I prefer that people see my good side also. Am I pretending just because I have a very real bad side? So many questions!!!:crazy:

you do my head in South:blowkiss:

 

[southcitymom]

you do my head in South:blowkiss:

Imagine how it feels to live in mine, sweet dingo!!!:blowkiss:

 

[Kiki]

Terrific post. How do you determine that Took's good side is the pretend one and his bad side is the authentic one? Is the evil we do stronger than the good we do? Could it be that Took, like all humans, is an authentic mix of good and bad?

I prefer that people see my good side also. Am I pretending just because I have a very real bad side? So many questions!!!:crazy:

If his good side was the authentic one he would have admitted himself to a psychiatric hospital when he first started having these tendencies. Alternatively he could have turned himself into police when the abused his first victim. He is a sociopath with no feelings towards anyone bar himself. Fellow humans, especially children, are all puppets for his amusement. Sociopaths see themselves as the only 'real' people and the rest of us could not possibly be thinking, emotional beings like they are so our needs do not count. We all read his indifference to the little Cambodian girl's fear and pain. That's why I think any good he has done is for his own purposes - for public admiration and to conceal his true nature. Sociopaths certainly feel no need to help anyone out a sense of compassion or moral conviction. They are incapable of those feelings.

The average human does have their good and bad sides. The difference is that non-sociopaths do have a moral sense of right and wrong. Though we don't always do the right thing we have a sense of guilt when he hurt others. Regular people can balance the needs of others against their own and can empathise with another's pain. Even a non-sociopathic murderer can have a good side. They may be loving sons/daughters or parents or kind to animals. They chose to kill out of greed, jealousy, anger but can love and empathise nonetheless. A sociopath like Took cannot. That is why none of his 'good' can be genuine.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

According to many paedophiles I have read, they do say its their sexual orientation and some are even fighting to have it recognised as such. There is even a political party in Holland set up by them specifically for this purpose.
I do not accept that it is something that can be healed or fixed. That approach is definately not working so far thats for sure.

I am not at all sure that knowledge of one's self is infallibly accurate. If it were, then (for example) people who are overweight would know why and they would be able to lose the extra pounds. Statistics show us, though, that over 98% of all diets fail in the long term (over three years).

There is, by the way, far more evidence that homosexuality is congenital (meaning acquired in the uterus) than there is evidence the pedophilia is. To the contrary, there's quite a lot of evidence that pedophilia is a learned behaviour.

Learned behaviours can be incredibly difficult to treat. Anyone who has ever tried to change a habit, even one so simple as nail biting, knows that.

The evidence suggests that pedophiles are not fixable with present methods. But times change and knowledge increases.

There are now treatments for conditions like schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc. The treatments aren't perfect and they don't always work but they are a lot more than we had 100 years ago or even 50 years ago (which is living memory for me).

Every year, more is learned about the brain. In the last ten years, great strides have been made in devising non-invasive and minimally invasive ways to look at brain activity.

I choose to think optimistically--someday there will be a cure for people who harm other people. I also choose to be a realist--if someone has a compulsion to harm others, then I believe they should be imprisoned for life so that they cannot carry out that harm.

To use a totally unrelated example: until very, very recently, spinal cord injuries were thought to be permanent. It wasn't until Christopher Reeve fell off his horse and refused to give up on physical therapy even after years of no results that something new was discovered. He had the financial resources and mental willpower to keep going for years and in so doing, discovered something new.

The truth is that we have been giving up on physical therapy for those with spinal cord injuries way, way too soon. Most para- and quadriplegics get a maximum of six months of physical therapy aimed at restoration of function and that is only if they (or their families) are really good at fighting with the insurance company. Christopher Reeve's experience suggests that six months isn't anywhere near long enough, that physical therapy needs to be much more intense and to go on for many more years than anyone in the world ever dreamed.

So, I say protect the innocent but don't give up hope. Unless we keep trying to treat pedophiles, we'll never learn what works.

Edison who went through over 10,000 models of light bulbs before he discovered one that worked and lasted moderately well. Human beings are a lot more important than light bulbs.

 

[GetSmart]

White Rain; I wish I had not read this. Lately I've been able to read stories and not let them effect me, but the first paragraph of this had me in tears whether true or not.
Grainne Dhu: I really hope that someday, someone does figure out how to fix pedophiles. Until then, life imprisonment seems like the most ethical option available.
The only fix IMO is Salvation, Satan is the evil in this case. Pure simply evil.

This is how I felt WR but to add it made me sick to my stomache.
I do not give a rats azzz if this man single handlly saved 1 million children from a burning building NOTHING side steps the pain & torture he brought to these babies & children & families & that coupled with helping others do the same.
:loser: :liar: :bigstick: uke: