The Fall Of Kabul To The Taliban #2

[Simply Southern]

I believe it was Al-Qaeda that trained the pilots. That was Bin Laden's terror group. They did hit the Pentagon, but yes, very brave Americans were able to bring the 4th plane down in Shanksville Pa. before it hit its next target.

I agree with everything you said about the Taliban wasting no time in getting the disabled equipment up and running. I had no doubt this would happen immediately.

Therefore, I reiterate what I posted earlier. There are no women and children at the airport any longer, neither are there innocent Afghanis and those who aided the US there. If they are alive, they are in hiding.
So I still maintain that we should use drones to wipe that airport off the face of the earth and take down any Taliban, Al-Qaeda, ISIS and any other terrorists who are there.

It would be costly but not as costly as what is going to happen to Western nations once the terror groups have reconstituted.

Our government can erase all printed evidence of the weaponry left behind, as @shotgun09 pointed out, but the Taliban and cohorts don't need to read about it. It's all right there and they're cavorting around in pictures that will inspire terrorism worldwide.

Thank you, you are correct.

 

[Simply Southern]

Majority of Interpreters, Other U.S. Visa Applicants Were Left Behind in Afghanistan

WASHINGTON—The U.S. left behind the majority of Afghan interpreters and others who applied for visas to flee Afghanistan, a senior State Department official said on Wednesday, despite frantic efforts to evacuate those at risk of Taliban retribution in the final weeks of the airlift.

In the early days of the evacuation effort, thousands of Afghans crowded Kabul’s airport seeking a way to flee the country. Some made it through without paperwork, while American citizens and visa applicants were unable to enter.

The U.S. still doesn’t have reliable data on who was evacuated, nor for what type of visas they may qualify, the official said, but initial assessments suggested most visa applicants didn’t make it through the crush at the airport.

“I would say it’s the majority of them,” the official said. “Just based on anecdotal information about the populations we were able to support"

Majority of Interpreters, Other U.S. Visa Applicants Were Left Behind in Afghanistan

I'm wondering why the US didn't round up the interpreters and US citizens early on. It would make sense to me to move these individuals out in July and early August. The safe passage by Taliban, didn't seem to work out well.

I am not understanding the delay to leave by so many.

• Was the Embassy not operational?
• Why did the US wait so late to start air lifts?
• What instructions for removal did the US give to the interpreters?
• Why did the Taliban not provide safe passage, as agreed?
• Was their repercussions for a failed agreement?
• Do our leaders really believe they can get anyone out of Afghanistan, when we couldn't when the US had control?

I have so many questions and no answers.

MHO....

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I'm wondering why the US didn't round up the interpreters and US citizens early on. It would make sense to me to move these individuals out in July and early August. The safe passage by Taliban, didn't seem to work out well.

I am not understanding the delay to leave by so many.

• Was the Embassy not operational?
• Why did the US wait so late to start air lifts?
• What instructions for removal did the US give to the interpreters?
• Why did the Taliban not provide safe passage, as agreed?
• Was their repercussions for a failed agreement?
• Do our leaders really believe they can get anyone out of Afghanistan, when we couldn't when the US had control?

I have so many questions and no answers.

MHO....

I wonder that, too. I think we'll hear testimony very soon about it, which is good. I wonder if they were afraid of attracting too much attention, leading any of the variety of terrorist groups to step up aggression to move the process along faster, or to prevent it, since the Taliban has been talking about how they don't want the best and brightest to leave. I think this was ultimately to protect the troops. I just heard Matt Zeller talk about how many SIV applicants are in areas far from Kabul. We would have attracted attention, beyond the attention our calls for citizens to leave must have evoked. JMO.

 

[otto]

Some ex-military commentators on the news recently have been talking about how the Chinese will want to reverse engineer some of the equipment to learn more about certain aspects of the technology.

That's a no-brainer. Russia has the same interests. It's mind boggling that anyone actually believed that "disabling" some military equipment and leaving it for the victors meant it was useless.

I'm wondering whether the USA had no choice but to leave the military equipment behind. It's not like the USA was in charge as they scrambled to leave the country according to the hard deadline given by the Taliban.

 

[otto]

Sourcing matters. This Forbes link is an op/ed, so it takes some factual information (which may or may not be accurate) and spins it to evoke emotion. His sources so far lead back to his own articles and to a website he runs (he is the CEO of the organization). He may be correct for all we know, but this isn't a source.



The Daily Mail is also a concern. Their source is an "anonymous source obtained by Reuters" who shared a transcript of the call. Well, where's the transcript? For all we know, the source is the guy who ran away from his country with $$$. OR, it could be a whistleblower in the administration getting the truth out. It all may be correct, but how would someone reading it know? They do include plenty of emotion-evoking language in their journalism, but they should also include this transcript.

Moreover, everyone expected the Taliban to eventually take over since February 2020 if they were paying any attention whatsoever to the Doha Deal. Most of the US public wasn't paying attention, IMO. What we know for sure the Biden administration got very wrong was being strident about the Afghan Army's will to fight at that point, and planning accordingly. Any other mistakes or bad acts* are going to come out in the coming weeks, IMO.

Edited to add bad acts

I posted a Washington Post link with similar information yesterday. It's a long article that provides an overview of the Afghanistan situation, including June and July communications between Biden and Afghanistan leaders.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...witter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wp_main

 

[ringbearer]

What an odd thing to do. Was there some belief that erasing documentation about the munitions would obfuscate the amount of munitions abandoned in Afghanistan? Was it assumed that the Afghanis were incapable of parading the equipment after the USA capitulated? Erasing paperwork does nothing in terms of hiding tanks, vehicles, helicopters, airplanes, guns, uniforms and so on.

I'm guessing they never expected what they left behind to make it into the msm. jmo

 

[otto]

I'm wondering why the US didn't round up the interpreters and US citizens early on. It would make sense to me to move these individuals out in July and early August. The safe passage by Taliban, didn't seem to work out well.

I am not understanding the delay to leave by so many.

• Was the Embassy not operational?
• Why did the US wait so late to start air lifts?
• What instructions for removal did the US give to the interpreters?
• Why did the Taliban not provide safe passage, as agreed?
• Was their repercussions for a failed agreement?
• Do our leaders really believe they can get anyone out of Afghanistan, when we couldn't when the US had control?

I have so many questions and no answers.

MHO....

If I were in control of the withdrawal from Afghanistan - and I have no military training whatsoever - I would have evacuated civilians first (meaning Afghanis who worked for foreign countries during the 20 year occupation), then I would have evacuated munitions, and finally I would have evacuated troops.

Far be it from me to wonder why the USA decided to evacuate troops first, to leave civilians scrambling to get to the airport, and to abandon munitions. Perhaps there's a military strategy behind the decisions, such as having no choice due to capitulation.

 

[Simply Southern]

If I were in control of the withdrawal from Afghanistan - and I have no military training whatsoever - I would have evacuated civilians first (meaning Afghanis who worked for foreign countries during the 20 year occupation), then I would have evacuated munitions, and finally I would have evacuated troops.

Far be it from me to wonder why the USA decided to evacuate troops first, to leave civilians scrambling to get to the airport, and to abandon munitions. Perhaps there's a military strategy behind the decisions, such as having no choice due to capitulation.

That's my thoughts exactly.

I do realize moving individuals out of the country would be noticed, but we had already moved the deadline from May to August. Also, Taliban was quickly taking over territory.
Questions I ponder, did the US issue any deadlines to US citizens and interpreters to be out of Afghanistan? Where arrangement made with evacuation dates and flights before the take over of Kabul? Surely, all could see them coming.

Moo...

 

[Simply Southern]

Afghanistan: Taliban show off dozens of US-made armoured vehicles and weaponry during victory parade | Daily Mail Online

The Taliban show off dozens of US-made armoured vehicles and weaponry during victory parades which even feature helicopter air displays

• Events on Wednesday marked a celebration of the U.S. withdrawal from and Taliban recapture of Afghanistan
• At a Kandahar parade, a Black Hawk helicopter trailing the Taliban flag was seen flying above crowds
• A long line of green Humvees and other armoured vehicles were driven in single file by armed Taliban fighters
• Parades came just hours after U.S. President Joe Biden defended the withdrawal of troops from the country

The Taliban showed off dozens of US-made armoured vehicles and weaponry during victory parades today

+58
One event, in the southern city of Kandahar, even featured a fly-past from a Black Hawk helicopter (pictured) flying the flag of the Taliban

+58
The parades of the hardware, captured during the group's takeover of Afghanistan, were held just hours after U.S. President Joe Biden defended his decision to end two decades of American presence in the country

 

[ringbearer]

Afghanistan: Taliban show off dozens of US-made armoured vehicles and weaponry during victory parade | Daily Mail Online

The Taliban show off dozens of US-made armoured vehicles and weaponry during victory parades which even feature helicopter air displays

• Events on Wednesday marked a celebration of the U.S. withdrawal from and Taliban recapture of Afghanistan
• At a Kandahar parade, a Black Hawk helicopter trailing the Taliban flag was seen flying above crowds
• A long line of green Humvees and other armoured vehicles were driven in single file by armed Taliban fighters
• Parades came just hours after U.S. President Joe Biden defended the withdrawal of troops from the country

The Taliban showed off dozens of US-made armoured vehicles and weaponry during victory parades today

+58
One event, in the southern city of Kandahar, even featured a fly-past from a Black Hawk helicopter (pictured) flying the flag of the Taliban

+58
The parades of the hardware, captured during the group's takeover of Afghanistan, were held just hours after U.S. President Joe Biden defended his decision to end two decades of American presence in the country

What could possibly go wrong? smdh

 

[LadyL]

Afghanistan: British passport delay blamed for baby stranded in Kabul

 

[otto]

That's my thoughts exactly.

I do realize moving individuals out of the country would be noticed, but we had already moved the deadline from May to August. Also, Taliban was quickly taking over territory.
Questions I ponder, did the US issue any deadlines to US citizens and interpreters to be out of Afghanistan? Where arrangement made with evacuation dates and flights before the take over of Kabul? Surely, all could see them coming.

Moo...

Biden said in his statement yesterday that the USA advised everyone in March 2021 that if they wanted to leave the country, that was the time to do it via commercial flights. I was surprised by that, since discussions about withdrawal occurred later in April, June, July and finally, a public announcement about withdrawal in August. It can't be easy to leave home and country, and after 20 years of occupation it perhaps seemed unthinkable that the Taliban would be allowed to roam the streets of Kabul with automatic weapons supplied by the USA.

I know that Canadian military were upset that the government made it so difficult for Afghani translators to complete immigration documents. Military was panicking about their Afghan friends and colleagues a few weeks before the Taliban arrived in Kabul.

 

[ringbearer]

So, if the evacuees are not most of the Afghans who helped us, who are they?






Abigail Williams
@Abs_NBC

A Senior
@StateDept
offl acknowledged for 1st time today that the majority of Afghans who helped the US Gov't over last 20 yrs didn't make it out of Kabul. Asked about SIV applicants left behind, the offl said while they couldn't provide a # "it's the majority of them."

 

[otto]

Afghanistan: British passport delay blamed for baby stranded in Kabul

Unfortunate to misplace such an important document, unfortunate to delay application for the baby's passport by three months, altogether unfortunate.

"She says she lost her UK ID card during her trip, and because of this, she was unable to return to the UK before her baby was born. Her partner joined her in December, and their daughter was born in Kabul in January.
...

The baby's father says they applied for the baby's passport in March." (same link)

​

 

[otto]

So, if the evacuees are not most of the Afghans who helped us, who are they?






Abigail Williams
@Abs_NBC

A Senior
@StateDept
offl acknowledged for 1st time today that the majority of Afghans who helped the US Gov't over last 20 yrs didn't make it out of Kabul. Asked about SIV applicants left behind, the offl said while they couldn't provide a # "it's the majority of them."

Hard to say. Perhaps the first few thousands who were evacuated were the first to get into the airport - before the gates were managed?

Evacuees crowd the interior of a US Air Force C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft, carrying some 640 Afghans to Qatar from Kabul. [Handout/Defense One via Reuters]

In Pictures: Evacuation flights resume at Kabul airport

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Biden said in his statement yesterday that the USA advised everyone in March 2021 that if they wanted to leave the country, that was the time to do it via commercial flights. I was surprised by that, since discussions about withdrawal occurred later in April, June, July and finally, a public announcement about withdrawal in August. It can't be easy to leave home and country, and after 20 years of occupation it perhaps seemed unthinkable that the Taliban would be allowed to roam the streets of Kabul with automatic weapons supplied by the USA.

I know that Canadian military were upset that the government made it so difficult for Afghani translators to complete immigration documents. Military was panicking about their Afghan friends and colleagues a few weeks before the Taliban arrived in Kabul.

I agree, and would only add that the Doha agreement included a timeline. People living in Afghanistan before the withdrawal were living in a country where terrorist attacks from various factions happened with great frequency. It isn't what most people would consider to be a tranquil place, although the landscape and the people possess great beauty. I can't imagine that any American choosing to live there is naive. I'm also sure that people pay attention to news there, and that the agreement would have perked up some ears, since it undercut the Afghan government in favor of the Taliban. However, it's possible some people were remote enough not to know.

 

[shotgun09]

Hard to say. Perhaps the first few thousands who were evacuated were the first to get into the airport - before the gates were managed?

Evacuees crowd the interior of a US Air Force C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft, carrying some 640 Afghans to Qatar from Kabul. [Handout/Defense One via Reuters]

In Pictures: Evacuation flights resume at Kabul airport

Discussing Qatar, who has aided in the airlift of who knows how many Afghans, I found this:

RS and BBM

"There’s an argument for the tiny gas-rich emirate to get further involved by advancing funds.That might sound crazy. One of the reasons Saudi Arabia and allies blockaded Qatar in 2017 was what they saw as an overly close relationship between the emirate and Islamist militants."

Afghanistan’s financial lifeline may lie in Qatar

 

[otto]

This is a story about one of the first who tried to get out of Afghanistan. He was a successful, married dentist who was expected to support his family. He had no specific reason to fear the Taliban.

"As the Taliban encircled Kabul on Aug. 15, Fada Mohammad told his family about what he’d seen on Facebook: Canada and the United States were airlifting anyone who wanted to leave out of the Kabul airport.

But if Fada wanted to go himself, recalled his father, Payanda Mohammad, he didn’t mention it.

The young dentist never reached either country. The next day, he didn’t make it beyond a rooftop four miles from the Kabul airport, where his body was found after he plunged from a U.S. military plane as it took off — one of the most tragic and indelible images in the final chapter of the U.S. campaign in Afghanistan.
...

Fada was born in 1996 or 1997 — Payanda Mohammad doesn’t remember exactly when — as the Taliban seized Kabul for the first time. The eldest of 10 children, the boy grew up surrounded by nature in the hill town of Paghman, west of Kabul.
...

But in post-Taliban Afghanistan, he saw in Fada the possibility of upward mobility.

The family scraped together enough money to send him to the private Shifa University in Kabul to study dentistry. ... Last year, he sold much of the family’s land and went heavily into debt, borrowing about $5,000 so Fada could get married.
...

On Aug. 16, Fada left home at 8:30 a.m. without a word — headed to the clinic, his family assumed.
...

Salek, a security guard at Kabul’s Mandawi market, was dozing at home around noon when he thought he heard an explosion above him. When he reached his roof, he found Fada’s body in a water tank.
​

The story of an Afghan man who fell from the sky

 

[sds71]

The United Nations’ stockpiles of food in Afghanistan could run out this month, a senior official warned Wednesday…
About one third of the country’s population of 38 million doesn’t know if they will have a meal every day, according to Ramiz Alakbarov, the U.N.’s humanitarian chief in Afghanistan.
“By the end of September, the stocks which the World Food Program has in the country will be out,” Alakbarov told reporters at a virtual news conference. “We will not be able to provide those essential food items because we’ll be out of stocks.”

Afghans face hunger crisis

 

[otto]

The United Nations’ stockpiles of food in Afghanistan could run out this month, a senior official warned Wednesday…
About one third of the country’s population of 38 million doesn’t know if they will have a meal every day, according to Ramiz Alakbarov, the U.N.’s humanitarian chief in Afghanistan.
“By the end of September, the stocks which the World Food Program has in the country will be out,” Alakbarov told reporters at a virtual news conference. “We will not be able to provide those essential food items because we’ll be out of stocks.”

Afghans face hunger crisis

This is a country that for 20 years was supposed to be learning to stand on their own two feet, to defend themselves and their beliefs. I'm very confused that they are unwilling to defend themselves against the Taliban and now they are unable to unable to feed themselves. What am I missing? Are the stories about a thriving economy with shops, restaurants, businesses a myth? Are the Taliban stealing what they want and not paying for food - thereby destroying businesses?