The Fall Of Kabul To The Taliban #2

[BayouBelle_LA]

Hard to say. Perhaps the first few thousands who were evacuated were the first to get into the airport - before the gates were managed?

Evacuees crowd the interior of a US Air Force C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft, carrying some 640 Afghans to Qatar from Kabul. [Handout/Defense One via Reuters]

In Pictures: Evacuation flights resume at Kabul airport

There are so many men and so few women and children in that photo.

I have no words here that would be within TOS. MOO

 

[otto]

There are so many men and so few women and children in that photo.

I have no words here that would be within TOS. MOO

That article is from August 17. August 16 is the day the Afghan dentist went to the airport (without telling his family) expecting to be evacuated to Canada or the USA - instead he fell from the sky.

The August 17 USA flight landed in Qatar, where 40,000 evacuees were placed in refuge camps. I'm guessing that those mostly young men were the first to hear the rumour that Canada and the USA were airlifting anyone who wanted to leave out of the Kabul airport. They probably ran to the airport without telling anyone, just like the Afghan dentist. I doubt there was any vetting at the airport - first come first served.

Afghanistan is welcoming Afghanis to remain in, or return to, the country and build the economy. If they are not genuine refugees, perhaps they'll be returned home? I wonder.

 

[dotr]

image sourceGetty Images
image captionDefaced posters outside a salon in Kabul
Kabul make-up artist: 'Women like me are Taliban targets'
''It's almost midnight in Kabul and Afsoon speaks in a hushed tone down the phone to us. She's palpably afraid. She left her home that Sunday and found a safe house.

"Women in the beauty industry, especially people like me who were visible and public with our work are targets," she says.

After the phone call from her friend telling her to not come in to work, Afsoon heard that any poster that represented female beauty was being painted over by scared Kabul residents. A friend of Afsoon's painted over some posters of models himself, a gesture to appease the Taliban and not attract attention to his female friends with beauty businesses.

"There is no way they would approve of seeing unveiled faces, or the necks of women on display," she says. "They have always been very clear on their belief that a woman must not attract attention.

"It is the end of the beauty industry in Afghanistan."

 

[mickey2942]

Hundreds of people in Jackson welcome home family of Marine killed in Kabul attack - East Idaho News

Local...and impressive. So many people really cared.

 

[KALI]

As a life long German Shepherd owner, I am infuriated. They let them loose in the airport!?! What are we going to hear next, that the Taliban is using them for target practice? Makes me sick.

More information about the dogs who were left behind, apparently when Kabul Small Animal Rescue's efforts to evacuate them were not allowed to proceed (possibly they ran out of time). The link is to the SPCA International, who had been assisting KSA.

Urgent Update and Action Plan from Charlotte & Kabul Small Animal Rescue (KSAR) - SPCA International

ETA: KSA does state on it's FB page, that they are working with SPCAI, however, I have discovered that SPCAI appears to be a somewhat controversial charity (F Rated Charity and Its Fundraiser Should Be Put on a Leash

The SPCAI link does seem to provide more accurate information than I have seen elsewhere, but JMO.

This has reminded me why (IMO), it's important to research charities and sources, and not take things at first glance. I've followed Nowzad for years, and know that they are a legitimate organization.

ETA2: USA Today update;

Service dogs were not left in Afghanistan: Pentagon denies report

Please note that KSA is a US based charity, and is separate from Nowzad, a UK based charity.

I've seen video on Twtr of Belgian Malinois and German Shepherds running loose at the abandoned airport. I pray that those poor dogs can still be rescued.

 

[otto]

image sourceGetty Images
image captionDefaced posters outside a salon in Kabul
Kabul make-up artist: 'Women like me are Taliban targets'
''It's almost midnight in Kabul and Afsoon speaks in a hushed tone down the phone to us. She's palpably afraid. She left her home that Sunday and found a safe house.

"Women in the beauty industry, especially people like me who were visible and public with our work are targets," she says.

After the phone call from her friend telling her to not come in to work, Afsoon heard that any poster that represented female beauty was being painted over by scared Kabul residents. A friend of Afsoon's painted over some posters of models himself, a gesture to appease the Taliban and not attract attention to his female friends with beauty businesses.

"There is no way they would approve of seeing unveiled faces, or the necks of women on display," she says. "They have always been very clear on their belief that a woman must not attract attention.

"It is the end of the beauty industry in Afghanistan."

I'm curious. I have always believed that, under the clothing that is worn for modesty reasons, Islam women do want to look beautiful for themselves and family. The veils are removed at home with family.

I've also assumed that the Islam women do want to pursue what the beauty industry has to offer. There's a market for the beauty industry. I'm curious whether these same beauty industry business owners in Afghanistan could modify their service as an in-home industry, or a discreet appointment industry. It should not be viewed as an "underground" service, but as a scheduled private and discreet service offered with a less ostentatious (what may be viewed by Muslims as vulgar) store front. Is it really necessary to advertise at street level?

Afghanistan has to continue to grow, it cannot simply return to the barbaric system of 20 years ago by killing everyone who has a different interpretation of religion. The Taliban have to observe some tolerance if they expect to remain in control of Afghanistan. They should want peace, but perhaps Afghanistan will choose to be a munitions rental company ... that remains to be seen. Can the beauty industry adapt, or must it end?

Another example is the article about the gay man (linked upthread) who looked online for companionship. Instead, he was lured by two men and raped. Although the article did not mention an investigation, arrest, or conviction, it is implied that the male rapists are Taliban. Apparently the Taliban are not killing gay men. I think that's also different from 20 years ago.

I think the people of Afghanistan would recover faster if they approach the newfound independence as glass half full (sure hope I'm not be naive here). Perhaps they need to take baby steps to get back to how it was with foreign occupation, but at least they'll do it themselves. I'm hopeful.

 

[ringbearer]

Afghanistan has to continue to grow, it cannot simply return to the barbaric system of 20 years ago by killing everyone who has a different interpretation of religion.

snipped by me -- I wouldn't be so sure. There are a LOT of people who support the Taliban and and similar all around that region.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Taliban fighters upset, feel betrayed that US military left non-working helicopters: report

A U.S. Department of Defense spokesperson told Fox News on Wednesday that "we disabled/demilitarized that equipment at Hamid Karzai International Airport prior to our departure."

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I'm curious. I have always believed that, under the clothing that is worn for modesty reasons, Islam women do want to look beautiful for themselves and family. The veils are removed at home with family.

I've also assumed that the Islam women do want to pursue what the beauty industry has to offer. There's a market for the beauty industry. I'm curious whether these same beauty industry business owners in Afghanistan could modify their service as an in-home industry, or a discreet appointment industry. It should not be viewed as an "underground" service, but as a scheduled private and discreet service offered with a less ostentatious (what may be viewed by Muslims as vulgar) store front. Is it really necessary to advertise at street level?

Afghanistan has to continue to grow, it cannot simply return to the barbaric system of 20 years ago by killing everyone who has a different interpretation of religion. The Taliban have to observe some tolerance if they expect to remain in control of Afghanistan. They should want peace, but perhaps Afghanistan will choose to be a munitions rental company ... that remains to be seen. Can the beauty industry adapt, or must it end?

Another example is the article about the gay man (linked upthread) who looked online for companionship. Instead, he was lured by two men and raped. Although the article did not mention an investigation, arrest, or conviction, it is implied that the male rapists are Taliban. Apparently the Taliban are not killing gay men. I think that's also different from 20 years ago.

I think the people of Afghanistan would recover faster if they approach the newfound independence as glass half full (sure hope I'm not be naive here). Perhaps they need to take baby steps to get back to how it was with foreign occupation, but at least they'll do it themselves. I'm hopeful.

I agree, and I hope this is right. It has been 20 years of women knowing some hope, and of men and boys benefitting from that. I have to believe that change will come, and that resistance slowly takes root.

 

[otto]

snipped by me -- I wouldn't be so sure. There are a LOT of people who support the Taliban and and similar all around that region.

I'm curious. Given that the only real industry that Afghanistan has been left with after 20 years of foreign occupation is an arsenal of munitions, how could Afghanistan use that arsenal to guarantee a better future?

 

[coffeeandacig]

Hundreds of people in Jackson welcome home family of Marine killed in Kabul attack - East Idaho News

Local...and impressive. So many people really cared.

Such a lovely tribute to a wonderful young man. There are some very thoughtful people in WY.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I'm curious. Given that the only real industry that Afghanistan has been left with after 20 years of foreign occupation is an arsenal of munitions, how could Afghanistan use that arsenal to guarantee a better future?

Between our stuff and the Soviet munitions? Scrap metal sales.

 

[otto]

Taliban fighters upset, feel betrayed that US military left non-working helicopters: report

A U.S. Department of Defense spokesperson told Fox News on Wednesday that "we disabled/demilitarized that equipment at Hamid Karzai International Airport prior to our departure."

So the Taliban expected to inherit a fully militarized air strike team during their peaceful, modified governance transition in Afghanistan? They view militarized air strike as a national asset? I'm guessing that national assets, such as a Persian rug, would not be looted from homes during withdrawal? And the Taliban views munitions as National Assets?

An Al Jazeera reporter who toured a hangar on the military side of the airport said in a video that the terrorist group "expected the Americans to leave helicopters like this in one piece for their use."

"When I said to them, ‘why do you think that the Americans would have left everything operational for you’? They said because we believe [helicopters] are a national asset and we are the government now and this could have come to great use for us," she continued.
...

A U.S. Department of Defense spokesperson told Fox News on Wednesday that "we disabled/demilitarized that equipment at Hamid Karzai International Airport prior to our departure."
​

Taliban fighters upset, feel betrayed that US military left non-working helicopters: report

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
2013
U.S. Army To Scrap $7 Billion In Equipment In Afghanistan
''In preparation for a complete exit from Afghanistan by the end of 2014, the U.S. military has destroyed more than 170 million pounds' worth of military equipment, The Washington Post reported.

Military planners for the U.S. Army have decided not to ship back more than $7 billion of equipment — about 20 percent of what the Army brought into Afghanistan — because the shipping costs are too high and the need for the used equipment too low. Instead, the Army is destroying the equipment in-country: shredding it, crushing it and selling it on the Afghan scrap market.''

''Part of the reason for destroying the equipment in-country rather than transporting it elsewhere — as the Army did when withdrawing from Iraq — has to do with the fact that the geography of Afghanistan presents unique challenges for retrograde, or removing military equipment from foreign war zones.

"Afghanistan is landlocked, so everything moving in and out must go by air," says U.S. Army spokesman Wayne Hall. "This provides challenges for us to get the equipment out."

Taliban celebrate their new US arsenal: Rifles, Humvees, ammo - CNNPolitics
2021
''While the Taliban can certainly make immediate use of US-made small arms and armored vehicles, officials are skeptical they can turn American aircraft into a viable fighting unit.
"Our soldiers, sailors, and airmen spend months and months training to use their aircraft," one official said. "The Taliban doesn't."
"The more sophisticated weaponry is a far greater challenge for the Taliban," Roggio told CNN.
"The helicopters and planes are going to be very difficult for them to maintain as viable over a long period of time. Less so the Russian aircraft, which they have more experience with, and the Pakistanis could help with those too," he added. "They may be able to use the aircraft in the short and medium term but without some type of supply chain it makes their life span relatively short."
"What they really gained in combat power is the armored vehicles and the light armored vehicles and even some tanks and artillery pieces," Roggio said.''

2019
The Market for Bulletproof Vehicles Is Skyrocketing

 

[ringbearer]

I'm curious. Given that the only real industry that Afghanistan has been left with after 20 years of foreign occupation is an arsenal of munitions, how could Afghanistan use that arsenal to guarantee a better future?

I can't answer that question the way you put it. If you mean how could the Taliban use it, my answer would be that the future they would use it to guarantee would be better for no one except themselves. I see a very bad ending to this for both the US and Afghanistan, in particular

eta: I've heard that the "industries" are opium and lithium (for electric batteries, hence the focus on "climate change.") They could likely use the arsenal to promote/protect those "industries," but that wouldn't guarantee a better future, so that really wouldn't answer the question either. jmo

 

[otto]

I agree, and I hope this is right. It has been 20 years of women knowing some hope, and of men and boys benefitting from that. I have to believe that change will come, and that resistance slowly takes root.

The Federated Women's Institute of Canada (an international affiliate) approached the education of women in all countries as giving them the tools to help themselves. Queen Elizabeth belongs to the Women's Institute organisation, and advocates for educating mothers because educating women ensures the education of sons and daughters. The best path to local and national change is through educating mothers.

In Afghanistan, where gender segregated post-secondary education is common, the Taliban have imposed a rule that there must be gender segregation in post-sec education and that only female educators can educate females students. The Taliban are expecting and hoping that female students will not have access to top intellectuals in diverse fields. They should be proven wrong.

Hopefully post-sec students will view gender segregated teaching and learning as a worthy challenge, may the best win. I hope the Taliban are not so oppressive that they are heartless.

 

[ringbearer]

Taliban fighters upset, feel betrayed that US military left non-working helicopters: report

A U.S. Department of Defense spokesperson told Fox News on Wednesday that "we disabled/demilitarized that equipment at Hamid Karzai International Airport prior to our departure."

It's not the equipment at the Airport that seems important to me. It's what they got at Bagram. But I'm having a sad that the Taliban feels betrayed though. omg, seriously?

 

[snowman 007]

Taliban declare their political leader the new Afghan President | Daily Mail Online

"The co-founder of the Taliban has been declared the new President of Afghanistan after the terror group announced the 20-year Western occupation 'is over now' and proclaimed an Islamic state during a triumphant speech from the Presidential Palace in Kabul.

Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, who fought in the Soviet-Afghan War during the 1980s and helped ex-chief Mohammad Omar create the Taliban in 1994, has already been installed as the head of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, according to reports in the Arab world."

Thread #1

that is very sad to see that amost groups like the taliban can go to another country and go into hiding to make every body belive that they are no more only to grow in size while in hiding like the cowards they are then once an army lkike the one of the us leaves the country they can easyily control comes bac and takes over like they have never left in the first place how sick and crazy is that and to be honest i would have throught that the usa would have trained the afganistian army better than what they have done

 

[ringbearer]

rbbm.
2013
U.S. Army To Scrap $7 Billion In Equipment In Afghanistan
''In preparation for a complete exit from Afghanistan by the end of 2014, the U.S. military has destroyed more than 170 million pounds' worth of military equipment, The Washington Post reported.

Military planners for the U.S. Army have decided not to ship back more than $7 billion of equipment — about 20 percent of what the Army brought into Afghanistan — because the shipping costs are too high and the need for the used equipment too low. Instead, the Army is destroying the equipment in-country: shredding it, crushing it and selling it on the Afghan scrap market.''

''Part of the reason for destroying the equipment in-country rather than transporting it elsewhere — as the Army did when withdrawing from Iraq — has to do with the fact that the geography of Afghanistan presents unique challenges for retrograde, or removing military equipment from foreign war zones.

"Afghanistan is landlocked, so everything moving in and out must go by air," says U.S. Army spokesman Wayne Hall. "This provides challenges for us to get the equipment out."

Taliban celebrate their new US arsenal: Rifles, Humvees, ammo - CNNPolitics
2021
''While the Taliban can certainly make immediate use of US-made small arms and armored vehicles, officials are skeptical they can turn American aircraft into a viable fighting unit.
"Our soldiers, sailors, and airmen spend months and months training to use their aircraft," one official said. "The Taliban doesn't."
"The more sophisticated weaponry is a far greater challenge for the Taliban," Roggio told CNN.
"The helicopters and planes are going to be very difficult for them to maintain as viable over a long period of time. Less so the Russian aircraft, which they have more experience with, and the Pakistanis could help with those too," he added. "They may be able to use the aircraft in the short and medium term but without some type of supply chain it makes their life span relatively short."
"What they really gained in combat power is the armored vehicles and the light armored vehicles and even some tanks and artillery pieces," Roggio said.''

2019
The Market for Bulletproof Vehicles Is Skyrocketing

They got it in. They could have gotten it out. jmo

 

[MajorHoople]

American rescue clinic founder stays in Afghanistan to pursue evacuation for staff and animals left behind

According to this report Charlotte Maxwell-Jones is still stranded in Afghanistan along with her animals and staff. I hope they get out soon.

published September 1, 2021

"An American who founded an animal rescue clinic in Kabul is still in Afghanistan, trying to persuade the Taliban to let her retrieve animals released by the U.S. military and airlift them out of the country with the clinic's employees.

Charlotte Maxwell-Jones was unable to board a military evacuation flight with the animals or charter a private aircraft before international troops left earlier this week.

The U.S. military released the clinic's animals from their cages in an enclosed area at the Kabul airport that had previously been used by the former Afghan army, Maxwell-Jones and a Pentagon statement said."

"The Tennessee native has vowed to stay until she secures the evacuation of her staff, their family members and up to 250 cats and dogs. Maxwell-Jones said she has had eight charter planes canceled in recent days, costing her a substantial amount of money in nonrefundable deposits.

The entire group arrived at the airport together last week, but Taliban guards initially allowed only Maxwell-Jones and the dogs to enter. The employees were told to wait with the cats, she said.

In the end, only nine of the over 125 people associated with the clinic made it through the gates and left Afghanistan, she said. The cats returned to the clinic with staff members.

All the service members on the ground were very nice,” she said. “They helped take care of the animals; they took them out; they cuddled them. They were really, really great.

“But some of the higher-ups were like: ‘You’re using our resources. We need to get people out. Do you care about animals more than people?’ I didn’t ask to move animals instead of people. I said let’s move them in addition.”

The animals likely would have ridden in cargo spaces, she said.

Photos of some 125 dogs in carrier cages that Maxwell-Jones has been trying to ship out of Afghanistan have been circulating on social media along with accusations that American forces left their working dogs behind when they completed their withdrawal this week."