The Front Door!

[accordn2me]

They couldn't test every single drop so they took a sampling. That drop didn't come into question, I suppose. Evidently it didn't make it into the sampling.

Since it's the only drop that shows any velocity, I would think it would definitely be tested. :banghead:

And shows someone running out the front door, no less!

 

[accordn2me]

Is it possible one of the boys (obviously, the 2nd one Darlie went after) woke up while his brother was being stabbed, saw what was happening, ...

I have always thought it to be just this way HoT...except they didn't find Devon's blood on the knife. My guess was that Damon was stabbed first, then Devon stood up and was stabbed on the spot. I know just because they didn't find Devon's blood on the knife, doesn't mean it wasn't there.

That's what makes this case so crazy. Every time you think you have a reasonable explaination for something, the dang evidence contradicts you.:bang:

 

[accordn2me]

Do we know for sure that there was none of his blood in the foyer area? It wasn't all tested was it?

I wouldn't expect his hands to be running with blood but I would expect there to be some blood transfer. I remember a few years ago working through the likelyhood of him having gone upstairs like he claims after helping the boys and being extremely doubtful because there was no blood transfer from his feet (which OK- I can overlook that) but also no blood transfer on stair bannister or anywhere upstairs which I think would be highly unlikely if he had gone upstairs as he claimed.

Do you really use the banister going up? Maybe if you're really tired and you need to kinda pull yourself...but the banister is mostly for coming down, I think...in case you trip you don't totally bust your ***.

If Darin went upstairs to get jeans on, that's where the blood would be (and is). Why anywhere else?

 

[Cowgirl]

A little off topic here, but please lock your doors, even out in the country. Those who would do harm look for open doors first. Crime is everywhere, even out in the country, what with drug labs and all. No place is "safe" any more.

 

[accordn2me]

A little off topic here, but please lock your doors, even out in the country. Those who would do harm look for open doors first. Crime is everywhere, even out in the country, what with drug labs and all. No place is "safe" any more.

Awww, Cowgirl, how sweet. :blushing: Thank you for your concern. Here's a funny story for ya: My aunt & uncle began locking their doors after they built onto their house making their bedroom upstairs. Should someone come in, they couldn't hear it because of their window unit A/C. A few years ago, I was bringing a friend home to meet the family, we arrived really late and the doors were locked. There was no cell phone reception in the area at the time and he thought for sure we would have to drive 45 miles back to a hotel. Of course the keys were in the car so we got right in! :woohoo:He couldn't believe it.

The world is getting more dangerous but that community is decades behind. People still let their dogs run around unleashed, no fences...it's too far between houses for them to run away. Salesmen and others who are not familiar with the residents learn quickly not to drive up and get out of their cars.

But you are right on target with the drugs. Many newcomers are moving into that area and setting up meth labs. They also benefit from the seclusion and space between property. They are easy to spot though.

And this is not too off topic...still about a front door.

 

[Cowgirl]

You are right, the meth thing is pushing crime further and further out into what used to be considered safe places. I was reminded of this during the Groene abduction case. Duncan abducted those children from their home in rural Wolf Creek, Idaho after killing all the adults. While the search was going on for the kids, I cannot tell you how many of the locals posted that their area out there in the wilderness was still a safe place and that the murder victims were probably known to the perp, blah X 3, because of drugs, etc. No one would have believed that the murderer picked the kids at random while driving down the interstate and spotting the kids playing in their yard.

Even after the girl was found with Duncan, the Idahoans were still posting about being safe out in the wilderness and then a father left his raped daughter to die in the same "safe" area!

Unless your place is unreachable by man, you are not safe anyplace. Leaving doors unlocked is just making it easy for them.

 

[accordn2me]

Unless your place is unreachable by man, you are not safe anyplace. Leaving doors unlocked is just making it easy for them.

How true, sad but true. I think more people do lock their doors these days even though this is one of the more isolated communities of the world. Nearest interstate is two hours away. There is not even a caution light or traffic signal there. But they are starting to have more crime like the rest of the world.

Did you ever read that book by Truman Capote, In Cold Blood? I think that happened in a very rural area - probably not as rural as where I'm from but rural. Scary!

 

[Cowgirl]

How true, sad but true. I think more people do lock their doors these days even though this is one of the more isolated communities of the world. Nearest interstate is two hours away. There is not even a caution light or traffic signal there. But they are starting to have more crime like the rest of the world.

Did you ever read that book by Truman Capote, In Cold Blood? I think that happened in a very rural area - probably not as rural as where I'm from but rural. Scary!

Yes, a wonderful book. Kansas, wasn't it?

 

[Dani_T]

Do you really use the banister going up? Maybe if you're really tired and you need to kinda pull yourself...but the banister is mostly for coming down, I think...in case you trip you don't totally bust your ***.

If Darin went upstairs to get jeans on, that's where the blood would be (and is). Why anywhere else?

If you are raching up the stairs I think it is naturally to grab the bannister to pull yourself up.

But my point is that there is no blood anywhere upstairs. Not on anything. It means Darin didn't touch anything upstairs unless it was his jeans (although lets not forget his story changed on that one too). He didn't touch the side of the cot to check on Drake- heck he didn't check Drake himself. He didn't touch a wall or a door and his feet couldn't have been bloody because there was no markings.

It just strikes me as pretty darn strange.

 

[accordn2me]

OK. If it strikes you as strange, it's strange to you. The way I picture it, Darin is reeling from the carnage downstairs, he races up the stairs to put on his jeans. He goes straight to the jeans, picks them up, maybe sits down on the bed, maybe not... pulls them on and races back down the stairs. What else would he need to touch? Not the crib...he could have looked at Drake while he was putting on the jeans. No need to touch him or anything else.

Also, at this point, I don't think he would have had that much blood on him. I think he probably ran downstairs, quickly checked Devon, and as soon as he heard that 911 was on the way, he ran up to grab jeans.

 

[accordn2me]

Yes, a wonderful book. Kansas, wasn't it?

I think so. Reading that will definitely make you want to lock your doors no matter where you live.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Yes, it was Kansas... and it may have been the Clutter family. It's been sooo many years. I used to work with the man who dated the daughter at the time of her death. If I'm not mistaken, he was the one that found the bodies the next (Sunday?) morning. He said the scene was unbelievable.

 

[Mary456]

Yes, it was Kansas... and it may have been the Clutter family. It's been sooo many years. I used to work with the man who dated the daughter at the time of her death. If I'm not mistaken, he was the one that found the bodies the next (Sunday?) morning. He said the scene was unbelievable.

Yes, it was Holcomb, Kansas. Holy moley, I can't believe it...you worked with Bobby Rupp? I'm dying of curiousity here...what did he say about the murders?

He was dating Nancy Clutter at the time, and spent Saturday evening at her house. On Sunday morning, a friend of Nancy's came to pick her up for church, and that's when the bodies were discovered.

I think "In Cold Blood" is still one of the best true crime books ever written. It's what got me interested in the dark side of human nature, lol.

 

[beesy]

ooh oooh oohh fill us in! It was a Sunday AM, I remember that because they were late for church, which alerted friends and family. Still gives me chills. They separated the victims and then shot them one by one, right?

 

[cami]

O, my gosh. You just stumbled onto something, A2M. I can't believe we missed it all thest months and years Mary, Dani, Cami, I hope you are reading here. If Darin was giving Devon CPR asnd getting blood all over his hands before police arrived, why on earth is none of Devon's blood in the foyer, on the door anywhere, or on the porch. Surely he touched something on his way out to the front yard that night. CJ came up with the no bloody footprints for Darin and we explained that via the carpet. He wouldn't have had to have blood on his feet, but he would have to have blood on his hands if he helped that boy BEFORE Waddell arrived. So where is the proof??????? Why didn't Darin leave behind any of Devon's blood?

Maybe he wiped his hands on his pant legs before he left the room? I know that wouldn't remove all the blood but most of it, I would think.

But yes, good catch. Didn't you have a theory one time that Darin didn't give cpr to Devon until Waddell was in the house?

 

[cami]

You are right, the meth thing is pushing crime further and further out into what used to be considered safe places. I was reminded of this during the Groene abduction case. Duncan abducted those children from their home in rural Wolf Creek, Idaho after killing all the adults. While the search was going on for the kids, I cannot tell you how many of the locals posted that their area out there in the wilderness was still a safe place and that the murder victims were probably known to the perp, blah X 3, because of drugs, etc. No one would have believed that the murderer picked the kids at random while driving down the interstate and spotting the kids playing in their yard.

Even after the girl was found with Duncan, the Idahoans were still posting about being safe out in the wilderness and then a father left his raped daughter to die in the same "safe" area!

Unless your place is unreachable by man, you are not safe anyplace. Leaving doors unlocked is just making it easy for them.

I got up this morning to find my doors were unlocked all night! My roommate. It's just automatic for me to turn my deadbolt when I come in. I was B&E'd a few year's ago while I was asleep in bed one Friday night, the one night I didn't put my deadbolt on! Once you hear your front door being smashed in, you will never forget ever to turn that deadbolt.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Re the Clutter family... I wish I could remember what he said, but it's been so many years ago. If my memory is correct (ha!), it's been about 35-37 years ago since I worked with him. Could that be possible??? I mostly remember that he was very quiet, very nice, and very pleasant. He didn't often talk about that day, or those events. So, he wasn't the one that discovered thenm (see how bad memory is!)? I do know he saw it, though, because I remember him saying how gruesome it was. He was not given to a lot of words, though (unlike me!), and never went into much detail about that day. I would guess the memories haunted him and that it was a subject he didn't like to discuss. And who could blame him.

Like you, that was the beginning of true crime for me, too. Capote was probably one of the most gifted writers of our time.... every word he wrote was perfection... and to have that perfection translated to the true crime genre made it a blockbuster.

 

[Goody]

Did you ever read that book by Truman Capote, In Cold Blood? I think that happened in a very rural area - probably not as rural as where I'm from but rural. Scary!

Yes, but in that case, one of the killers learned from someone he was in prison with that the Clutter family kept large amounts of money in the house. It was not a random hit. Of course, the family didn't have any stacks of money hidden but the guy was bragging and apparently just made the story up. I don't think he knew that one of the prisoners he was bragging to would get out and go after them for the "money" in the house. As I recall, they got almost nothing from the house and ended up being executed for the crime.

 

[Goody]

OK. If it strikes you as strange, it's strange to you. The way I picture it, Darin is reeling from the carnage downstairs, he races up the stairs to put on his jeans. He goes straight to the jeans, picks them up, maybe sits down on the bed, maybe not... pulls them on and races back down the stairs. What else would he need to touch? Not the crib...he could have looked at Drake while he was putting on the jeans. No need to touch him or anything else.

Also, at this point, I don't think he would have had that much blood on him. I think he probably ran downstairs, quickly checked Devon, and as soon as he heard that 911 was on the way, he ran up to grab jeans.

As any ER nurse knows, blood has a mind of its own. A tiny little cut on your finger can leave traces in the most unlikely places. If Darin had blood on him, he'd have left something somewhere, most probably in his bedroom as he reached for his pants, as he sat on the bed and put the pants on. He would have touched something he didn't take back downstairs with him. So either he had no blood on him when he wentback upstairs to get his pants or he had the pants on the first time he came downstairs and never went back upstairs for anything.

 

[Goody]

Maybe he wiped his hands on his pant legs before he left the room? I know that wouldn't remove all the blood but most of it, I would think.

But yes, good catch. Didn't you have a theory one time that Darin didn't give cpr to Devon until Waddell was in the house?

Yes, mostly because no one who saw him that night was very impressed with the blood on him. I would think that would stand out in anyone's memory who looked at him. Even if everyone didn't notice, you'd think that someone would have but not a single person did. That makes me think that he did not have much blood on him at all, except on his hands as Waddell testified to. Even if he wiped them on his pants, he would surely have left a smudge of some kind around that dead bolt if he had touched it. I think the door was never locked that night.

Plus I am not totally convinced that he made any real effort at any time to perform CPR. I wish there were someone here who knows a lot about CPR. Sometimes they work on someone as long as 1.5 hours. I am wondering how long one would attempt CPR on a victim who has bled out. What would be the point? The heart needs blood to pump in order to work, doesn't it?

It just doesn't make sense to me why Damon was left on his own, him being the youngest and the one still alive. Surely Darin with all his first aid experience would know that putting pressure on his wounds was the most important thing he could do in that situation. If he was making a real CPR effort on Devon, when he slipped over to feel Damon's pulse and found none, why didn't he try CPR on Damon? He knew Devon was gone at that point. Even though paramedics were outside, why didn't he at least start it? Instead he goes back to Devon. It doesn't ring true to me. Something about it just feels wrong.