The Front Porch

[In da Middle]

Actually they would be able to hear the kids from the front yard better than from the deck especially if bedroom doors were open and front door was open. The walls to the computer room would dampen more sounds.

 

[In da Middle]

Most subdivisions in these parts (suburban Detroit) have homeowner's associations with strict rules. DH and I have lived in three new homes in the same county since we've been married (40 years). We weren't allowed to have fences in any of these neighborhoods. When we had a dog, the pet was on a long tether in the backyard, and our dogs were walked or bike-walked several times daily. Unless invited, neighbors don't walk into other yards, and there is very little crime in this county. The only fences that are permitted are around the perimeter of inground pools, and our current neighborhood dictates the exact specifications for the fence. It's the way things are, and everyone knows the rules and expectations before they purchase the home.

No HOA here. It is just a nice neighborhood because we all like to keep it nice on our own terms.

 

[Angelonline]

Most subdivisions in these parts (suburban Detroit) .....

Snipped by me for space...
You learn something new every day. I had never heard of a S/D or HOA that didn't allow fences either and I am a real estate broker. :crazy:

 

[Elley Mae]

Most subdivisions in these parts (suburban Detroit) have homeowner's associations with strict rules. DH and I have lived in three new homes in the same county since we've been married (40 years). We weren't allowed to have fences in any of these neighborhoods. When we had a dog, the pet was on a long tether in the backyard, and our dogs were walked or bike-walked several times daily. Unless invited, neighbors don't walk into other yards, and there is very little crime in this county. The only fences that are permitted are around the perimeter of inground pools, and our current neighborhood dictates the exact specifications for the fence. It's the way things are, and everyone knows the rules and expectations before they purchase the home.

O/T I would never own a piece of property and then have some "group" "HOA" tell me I can't put up a fence. jmo

 

[mistermissy]

But could they not have sat in chairs that are on the back deck or are say in the garage?

We sit outside on our concrete drive but in chairs that we keep in our garage. Or maybe SB brought chairs over from her place. There's nothing to say they didn't sit outside in chairs that were put away when their conversation broke up at 10:30. If SB talked to police and told them she was outside talking to another neighbor between 10:30 and 11:30, I'm sure the cops have talked to that second neighbor to verify or undermine that story.

BBM. What other neighbor?

 

[Sparklin]

That theory does sound plausible. Especially since it was a school night. I didn't even think about early bedtime for little boys too. My son's bedtime is 8:00-8:30 and he's older than these boys. My son plays hard and sleeps hard. Maybe this is the case with these ones too.:twocents:

Eons ago, when my kids were that age, they would be in their beds by 8 on school night the latest and yes, it was adult time. Not fall down drunk adult time, but not mommy, mommy, mommy time either. If there was a friend over, chances of them falling asleep right away would be rare though, much chatter and giggling ~ although I have daughters ~ I agree this sounds plausible. I thought that I read somewhere though that Deb said the boys were still awake at 10:30 and she told them to get into bed with her?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

No HOA here. It is just a nice neighborhood because we all like to keep it nice on our own terms.

If I haven't acknowledged your contributions to the Lisa Irwin board previously, I want you to know that I appreciate your sharing your personal observations about the case and the neighborhood. Many thanks! :rose:

 

[TorisMom003]

For me sitting on the front porch instead of the back porch is a non-issue. I see nothing that is sinister about it at all. There are any number of harmless possibilities as to why they decided to sit on the front porch.

MOO

 

[justamommy]

Ummmm, I can. They'd be running around like hellions, NOT using indoor voices, trashing the house, turning every light on, opening the fridge, leaving crumbs everywhere, dragging out toys, blankets, toilet plungers, finding stray cats, waking up Lisa, visiting her in the crib to stop her screaming (cause you know she'd want in on the action) :waitasec: maybe picking up BL, maybe dropping a baby?.....:twocents:

Not at my house. My kids know the rules and my neighbors/friends kids know the rules too. :twocents:

 

[captivagrl]

Eons ago, when my kids were that age, they would be in their beds by 8 on school night the latest and yes, it was adult time. Not fall down drunk adult time, but not mommy, mommy, mommy time either. If there was a friend over, chances of them falling asleep right away would be rare though, much chatter and giggling ~ although I have daughters ~ I agree this sounds plausible. I thought that I read somewhere though that Deb said the boys were still awake at 10:30 and she told them to get into bed with her?

DB's statements regarding that night make me wonder....wasn't there a regular bedtime routine on a school night? IMO is very important to establish a structured routine for most young children on school nights. What was the plan for Tuesday morning? Who was supposed to get the boys up, dressed, fed, etc. Every time I read her version of events I think this isn't the middle of summer or a Friday night.

 

[justamommy]

DB's statements regarding that night make me wonder....wasn't there a regular bedtime routine on a school night? IMO is very important to establish a structured routine for most young children on school nights. What was the plan for Tuesday morning? Who was supposed to get the boys up, dressed, fed, etc. Every time I read her version of events I think this isn't the middle of summer or a Friday night.

If they do have a regular routine, I wonder if it could have been nixed this night because of neighbors problems w/ husband. Just don't worry about it tonight, let me help my friend kinda thing. Just a thought.

 

[Cazzie]

If they do have a regular routine, I wonder if it could have been nixed this night because of neighbors problems w/ husband. Just don't worry about it tonight, let me help my friend kinda thing. Just a thought.

JMO, but if you have kid(s), you support your friend but fit that into your top priority being your kid(s) and SO. Which sorta sounds like *maybe* that was the plan but something went terribly wrong.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Verified how and by whom? (other than DB)

Just askin'.

There are dozens of links to this, but here is one:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15940122/source-says-4-hour-window-for-abduction?clienttype=printable

 

[norest4thewicked]

The only prob I have with that is Jeremy was supposed to be home around 10'ish. He never called DB to tell her he was gonna be late, so she would still assume he was gonna be home. One would assume DB would want to get rid of any body before that time frame. If she left the home after the neighbor did (at 10:30) she would risk Jeremy coming home any minute and her cover would be blown.

Thoughts?

Mel

I've heard that too, but I don't think it has ever been publicly verified. We also don't know if he possibly did call DB on one of those phones, or called her brother or even SB's phone to let DB know he was going to be late.

 

[Cazzie]

There are dozens of links to this, but here is one:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15940122/source-says-4-hour-window-for-abduction?clienttype=printable

Thanks for getting that link.

But...from the article at that link:

"Sources say...".

Who are these sources? Do they have names?

Are unnamed sources in a media article reliable? How would we ever know, since they're not named and thus they're not accountable for what they supposedly said?

Your post said it was verified...that's why I asked.

Maybe we have different definitions of "verified", and that's OK.

 

[katydid23]

I've heard that too, but I don't think it has ever been publicly verified. We also don't know if he possibly did call DB on one of those phones, or called her brother or even SB's phone to let DB know he was going to be late.

JI said himself, in one of the later interviews, that he did NOT call home to tell her he was running really late BECAUSE THE PHONES DID NOT WORK. That is kind of a red flag for me because 'restricted service' allows for incoming calls.

{ I will try and find the link for that interview. Does anyone else remember which interview it was that he said that? Megan K maybe?]

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15940122/source-says-4-hour-window-for-abduction?clienttype=printable

Here is the one where the article said he did not call home to tell DB he was going to be late. But it does not say it was because the celss at home did not work. I have not found that yet.

 

[norest4thewicked]

She was expecting JI MUCH earlier and since he hadn't called home to say he would be later, she would have been taking quite a chance no?

I haven't seen anything in the media that states that DB knew he was coming home early. I think that although that was the original plan, I think that somehow he related to her that he would be late.

 

[katydid23]

I haven't seen anything in the media that states that DB knew he was coming home early. I think that although that was the original plan, I think that somehow he related to her that he would be late.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15940122/source-says-4-hour-window-for-abduction?clienttype=printable

"The Starbucks job kept Irwin longer than he expected, but he did not use his work cell to call home. Bradley has said she was not alarmed by the delay."

 

[Elley Mae]

JI said himself, in one of the later interviews, that he did NOT call home to tell her he was running really late BECAUSE THE PHONES DID NOT WORK. That is kind of a red flag for me because 'restricted service' allows for incoming calls.

{ I will try and find the link for that interview. Does anyone else remember which interview it was that he said that? Megan K maybe?]

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15940122/source-says-4-hour-window-for-abduction?clienttype=printable

Here is the one where the article said he did not call home to tell DB he was going to be late. But it does not say it was because the celss at home did not work. I have not found that yet.

Didn't deborah's dad "lend" or "give" her a phone to use, doesn't that make jeremy's story of not calling her a lie?

 

[norest4thewicked]

Thanks for getting that link.

But...from the article at that link:

"Sources say...".

Who are these sources? Do they have names?

Are unnamed sources in a media article reliable? How would we ever know, since they're not named and thus they're not accountable for what they supposedly said?

Your post said it was verified...that's why I asked.

Maybe we have different definitions of "verified", and that's OK.

I think that some things, after they have been reported over and over again, and not disputed by anyone, are pretty clearly true. Even In Da Middle, who lives in the neighborhood, says that they do it all the time. So, although I have no clue who verified it, it clearly is true.