The Grand Jury & Trial

[MzOpinion8d]

Sorry, the BBM is what I meant.

Not every case is thoroughly investigated. Investigators don't make a big deal out of every move and everything the parents said. Computers and other electronic devices were not confiscated and gone through with a fine tooth comb. I suspect LE could find research topics they could relate to the death on many of the parent's computers. IMO

Thanks for clarifying! Maybe there are some inaccuracies, but so far what I've seen/heard is more about interpretation of things vs outright wrong.

Fortunately, it will all be revealed soon.

 

[LinasK]

If I am understanding the tweets correctly, we have 12 of 32 necessary jurors already selected. I am a bit surprised at some of the denials the judge is making. I read the potential juror's questionnaire but can't recall if they had to divulge arrest records. One potential juror, #9, hid the fact that he committed a misdemeanor. The questionnaire is a sworn statement of the truth. Wonder if he'll be in trouble? Apparently not, since the judge refused the state's request to strike #9.

I was summoned for a big case that was moved into my county as a change of venue. The court subpoenaed 300 registered voters. We all sat in one large room. The case involved the drowning of a child due to an adult friend of the family removing her life jacket when their boat became stranded in a large lake. The judge excused school teachers, school administrators, and anyone who worked with small children. The jury and alternates were selected about halfway through those summoned.



The state already reenacted the incident by using a similar vehicle, a small doll, driving the route, the parking lot, etc. before the prelim. For the trial, the jurors will have the Harris' vehicle, Cooper's carseat and a doll exactly the height of Cooper.

This is an interesting tidbit. Cooper had outgrown his carseat yet the Harris' had not replaced it. That is why Cooper's head was sticking above the back panel by several inches. My daughter pays appx $400-500ea for her daughters' carseats. Why did the Harris' not replace Cooper's carseat unless they knew he would not be needing one in the future? Save that $400 smackeroos.

Justice for Sweet Baby Cooper

Actually they did and put the bigger one in Leanna's car. That proves they knew it was too small, but you're right that they probably could've bought two, but chose not to knowing they wouldn't need it!

 

[LinasK]

I thought they had bought a new car seat, but hadn't installed it yet?

They put it into Leanna's car.

 

[LinasK]

67% refers to how after Day 4, 8/12 jurors were qualifed to serve. Four were dismissed from jury duty, and now 8 jurors could possibly be selected to serve. On Day 5, they've questioned four more jurors. One was disqualifed because of a language barrier. Not sure if the judge will disqualify Juror #15.

The local media is definitely hyper-sensationalizing every single aspect of the case. Their pre-trial coverage reminds me a lot of a movie being hyped up as being the biggest movie of the year before we even get box office receipts. The local media must be praying there's a huge amount of interest in the trial because that means the more clicks and views on their website. They might be the only source for watching the trial live. I have no clue how much interest there will be once the trial starts, but I don't see a huge amount of interest so far. I haven't seen more than twenty people viewing this forum, articles about the case aren't getting a crazy amount of comments and likes compared to articles about other stories, only local media reporters are tweeting about the case currently, etc. Of course I expect interest to increase when the trial begins but the local media seems to be trying to make it sound like the trial will be as big as Zimmerman or Anthony and I've seen no actual proof of that yet.

BBM. Don't be so sure Eileen, I was onto this case at the beginning when Cooper's little body was discovered, but I got disgusted and walked away from this particular case for two years (not WS). Now I'm back. Other WS'ers will be too, especially since it's on the splash page and there aren't many other trials going on right now. I have no interest at the moment in the Teresa Sievers case.

 

[LinasK]

Christian Boone ‏@ReporterJCB 4m4 minutes ago
Juror 80: A child can't be left unintended, "it's deep in my core" #RossHarris #hotcardeath


Christian Boone ‏@ReporterJCB 6m6 minutes ago
Juror 80, son went missing for cpl of hrs, found w/ assist from law enforcement #RossHarris #hotcardeath

Do they mean the juror is 80 years old....? So his son went missing for a couple of hours likely 50+ years ago?

No, that's Juror #80

 

[LinasK]

Christian Boone ‏@ReporterJCB 2m2 minutes ago
Juror 17: Driver for Frito-Lay, has 3yo son, same age Cooper Harris would be today #RossHarris #hotcardeath

Is Christian reading our forum?

I think Juror #17 and I think Jodi Arias sentencing trial and the one holdout who voted not to give her Death.

 

[Hope4More]

According to the ACJ::



8:55. Left CF. (Approx. time)
8:55:19. Texted he missed time to himself and going out with friends.
9AM. Arrived HD parking lot/work
9:12. Woman he's texting with says she feels unappreciated and drained by her 2 young children, but that she doesn't resent her kids, she resents "him." Husband.
9:15:15. He says his wife gets upset when he goes out with friends.
9:15:33. I love my son, but we need escapes...
9:18:09. She says- maybe that's our issue too..I need a break from "love."
9:24:15. He says- agreed.
9:24:23. Him: Hug
9:24:28. Him: We both need that.


So:

1. he wasn't texting en route, UNLESS the 8:55:19 text was sent then.

2. The woman he was texting with wasn't talking about being child free, and explicited said she didn't resent her children.

3. His complaint, stated twice, was about his wife not being OK with him spending time out, not anything about Cooper.

4. He says he loves his son, not just that he doesn't resent him or the like.

5. This conversation largely took place after he left Cooper in the car. He texted after the fact, if intentional? And didn't delete these "incriminating" texts?

What I hear in the texts are 2 married parents, both of whom are feeling resentful about their SPOUSES, not their kids.

 

[Hope4More]

I would like to address #2. It's true Cooper is older than many of the children accidentally forgotten. He still falls into the 20% age category of "hot car deaths".



Are you saying that 22 yr. old children are rarely ever silent unless they are asleep? While I agree children this age are verbal, I don't agree they never have a moment of silence. I also don't agree that it's highly unlikely Cooper fell asleep that quickly. I recall shopping trips and my child falling asleep before I could get out of the parking lot. I remember being amazed at how quickly they could nod over and fall asleep.

I would like to address the other 14 entries in your post. However, there have been accusations of inaccuracies. There have also been accusations that comments have been taken out of context. I am waiting until the trial to determine exactly what is accurate and what is not. :loser:

I will say that I don't find Ross's research on "how to survive in prison" relevant to the case.

Even at that age, kids can be extremely perceptive, in my experience. Maybe Cooper sensed his father's preoccupation with his phone/texting and left him alone, or maybe was told at CF that dad was busy thinking, or maybe Cooper wasn't looking forward to daycare and was quiet. Lots of possibilities.

What seems less likely is that a wide-awake Cooper stayed quiet in the car when his dad pulled up at the wrong place and walked away without him. And that nobody parking nearby on their way into work noticed or heard a crying screaming child.

 

[Magdalyn]

Even at that age, kids can be extremely perceptive, in my experience. Maybe Cooper sensed his father's preoccupation with his phone/texting and left him alone, or maybe was told at CF that dad was busy thinking, or maybe Cooper wasn't looking forward to daycare and was quiet. Lots of possibilities.

What seems less likely is that a wide-awake Cooper stayed quiet in the car when his dad pulled up at the wrong place and walked away without him. And that nobody parking nearby on their way into work noticed or heard a crying screaming child.

If his father often left him in the car to run into the store, etc, he might have been quite used to it and not cried when he left him. All his dad would have to do is say "I'll be back in a little bit. Be quiet for daddy so I don't get in trouble with my boss"

It's my experience living and working in high traffic metro Atlanta, a majority (more than 50%) of employees who work a regular day shift are already at their desk by 9:17 a.m. Our expressways are often at a standstill by 7 am. He may have been one of the later arrivers and knew it.

 

[borndem]

1. There was not a significant change in routine that morning - he took Cooper to daycare nearly every day, and they ate

So......those are just a few reasons off the top of my head as to what makes this case different than the ones in the WaPo article.

(Respectfully snipped by me.)

Ouch, ouch, and ouch! If the prosecution is allowed to bring all that into the courtroom, it'll be a long row for the defense to hoe.

That list paints a pretty darn cold picture of "daddy," doesn't it?

Juries are so unpredictable, however, the 50 cents I use for a bet on a verdict is staying in my pocket...for now.

 

[magnolia]

Originally Posted by MzOpinion8d

1. There was not a significant change in routine that morning - he took Cooper to daycare nearly every day, and they ate

So......those are just a few reasons off the top of my head as to what makes this case different than the ones in the WaPo article.

(Respectfully snipped by me.)

Ouch, ouch, and ouch! If the prosecution is allowed to bring all that into the courtroom, it'll be a long row for the defense to hoe.

That list paints a pretty darn cold picture of "daddy," doesn't it?

Juries are so unpredictable, however, the 50 cents I use for a bet on a verdict is staying in my pocket...for now.

I thought Leanna and Ross rotated taking and picking up Cooper at daycare. ??

 

[Nali87]

Nevermind: I see that they're also charging him with murder.

 

[Hope4More]

If his father often left him in the car to run into the store, etc, he might have been quite used to it and not cried when he left him. All his dad would have to do is say "I'll be back in a little bit. Be quiet for daddy so I don't get in trouble with my boss"

It's my experience living and working in high traffic metro Atlanta, a majority (more than 50%) of employees who work a regular day shift are already at their desk by 9:17 a.m. Our expressways are often at a standstill by 7 am. He may have been one of the later arrivers and knew it.

Maybe. Or maybe not. The more I'm catching up, the more reasonable doubt is piling up.

To believe it was intentional, one would have to believe that:

1. He hated his son or wanted him to suffer a horrible death for some other reason (alleged internet search of a veterinary site about animals/pets being locked in hot cars). Even the sociopath Casey Anthony, who absolutely did want to live a child-free life, (allegedly) chose a "painless" way to kill Caylee.

If his goal was "just" to be child-free, murdering Cooper in this way is highly unlikely, IMO.

2. When is he alleged to have begun "premeditating" a murder? A week beforehand, when he watched that video? And then left an online text trail providing the missing motive on the very morning of the "murder," and then sexted all day rather than keeping his nose clean?

Unlikely, IMO.

3. Maybe he decided to murder his son after exchanging 2 texts with a woman who said she resented her husband but not her children?

Unlikely, IMO.

4. How long did it take him to reach that intersection to daycare or to work? It may only have been .2 miles, but it was work AM, not a small street, required at least one turn to reach, likely in traffic.

30 or 40 seconds to that intersection? Unlikely, IMO.

5. To believe it was planned, one also has to believe he chose to murder his son in one of the most agonizing ways imaginable, in plain view, in his own car, at his own workplace. Cooper wasn't an infant. How could he have felt assured Cooper wouldn't yell when his dad first left, or move around enough to get noticed by someone in that parking lot?

He couldn't, IMO.

6. He brought coworkers near his car at lunch. He didn't pay any attention to coworkers walking towards his car in the AM.

IMO, not likely behavior of a man trying to kill his child.

And those are just for starters. ..

 

[Magdalyn]

How much could 22 month old Cooper 'see' from his position in the infant car seat? He was read facing and reclined. And with the straps strung through the lowest/infant setting, it would have cut sharply into his shoulders to try to sit upright in his seat in order to see out better. His head may have been above the back of the seat, but that doesn't necessarily correlate to a clear view of the surroundings. He may not have perceived he was in the wrong lot. Even if he did, if his dad left him in the car before, he would trust his dad would come back, like he did in the past.



On top of that, his daycare was located at the corporate headquarters. Can't imagine that parking lot looks, from little 22-month-old-reclined-in-a-car seat's perspective, much different than where he was parked. And again, his dad could have told him anything. "Gotta run into work for a few. Be quiet for Daddy."



Which reminds me: What do parents who admit to knowingly leaving their alert children in the car while they run in for a job interview/into a bar/into work for the day? I'm assuming it's 'Be quiet, you don't want Mommy/Daddy getting into trouble, do you?"

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I don't think Ross was concerned with how painful or pain free Cooper's death was going to be. I think he thought only of himself and thought this was the best way not to get "caught" killing Cooper.

 

[Hope4More]

How much could 22 month old Cooper 'see' from his position in the infant car seat? He was read facing and reclined. And with the straps strung through the lowest/infant setting, it would have cut sharply into his shoulders to try to sit upright in his seat in order to see out better. His head may have been above the back of the seat, but that doesn't necessarily correlate to a clear view of the surroundings. He may not have perceived he was in the wrong lot. Even if he did, if his dad left him in the car before, he would trust his dad would come back, like he did in the past.



On top of that, his daycare was located at the corporate headquarters. Can't imagine that parking lot looks, from little 22-month-old-reclined-in-a-car seat's perspective, much different than where he was parked. And again, his dad could have told him anything. "Gotta run into work for a few. Be quiet for Daddy."



Which reminds me: What do parents who admit to knowingly leaving their alert children in the car while they run in for a job interview/into a bar/into work for the day? I'm assuming it's 'Be quiet, you don't want Mommy/Daddy getting into trouble, do you?"

I have no idea what such parents say, but anyone who has ever parented a toddler knows that many times and places their own wants and needs trump everything else, including a parent's admonishment to pipe down. How long would it have taken for those needs to trump an admonishment?

I refuse to try to imagine an awake OR a first asleep then awakened Cooper in that car and what happened to him, so won't go there.

The gist of my point was that his father could not be assured that a Cooper in plain view would keep quiet.

As for what Cooper could or couldn't see from his seat, and whether or not he'd have known where he was. Kids are different, but my son was extremely observant even at that age and did recognize the places where he went most frequently (he never went to daycare, so can't comment specifically on daycare).

 

[Magdalyn]

Maybe. Or maybe not. The more I'm catching up, the more reasonable doubt is piling up.

To believe it was intentional, one would have to believe that:

1. He hated his son or wanted him to suffer a horrible death for some other reason (alleged internet search of a veterinary site about animals/pets being locked in hot cars). Even the sociopath Casey Anthony, who absolutely did want to live a child-free life, (allegedly) chose a "painless" way to kill Caylee.

Disagree. IMO, as a sociopath, he didn't have to hate. He just had to put his needs first. His inability to love anyone other than himself, or feel empathy, would cause him little to no discomfort in the thought of causing Cooper discomfort. Also, it's not like he threw him into a pit with wild dogs. He may have convinced himself he'd only get hot, then sleepy, sleep, then die. No pain, in his mind, to that equation.



If his goal was "just" to be child-free, murdering Cooper in this way is highly unlikely, IMO.

2. When is he alleged to have begun "premeditating" a murder? A week beforehand, when he watched that video? And then left an online text trail providing the missing motive on the very morning of the "murder," and then sexted all day rather than keeping his nose clean?




Again, I believe he could be a narcissist and a sociopath....and lazy, just like Casey and in a sense, Jodi/ He thinks he's smarter than everyone. Or that everyone is too stupid to figure things out. Why would Casey dump Caylee so close to home? Why would Jodi leave the camera in the washing machine and not get rid of it wherever she got rid of the gun. Narcissism, sociopath, arrogance....laziness.


3. How long did it take him to reach that intersection to daycare or to work? It may only have been .2 miles, but it was work AM, not a small street, required at least one turn to reach, likely in traffic.

30 or 40 seconds to that intersection?

Not that much traffic. It's after 9. Kids are ay school, a lot of people are already at work. It's probably why he leaves for work later. Avoid the 6-8 am stand-still traffic.


5. To believe it was planned, one also has to believe he chose to murder his son in one of the most agonizing ways imaginable, in plain view, in his own car, at his own workplace. Cooper wasn't an infant. How could he have felt assured Cooper wouldn't yell when his dad first left, or move around enough to get noticed by someone in that parking lot?

After following a lot of cases here, and while I agree his death was agonizing, I'm sure he could imagine/justify worse. We've seen more violent deaths of children. Ones that involved rape, sodomy, and being beaten to death with a roller skate. And all this assumes he was capable of feeling love or empathy, of which I'm not convinced. We know there are parents who are incapable of feeling love or empathy for their children. And, as I stated above, he could just as easily have convinced himself he would get hot, cry, feel sleepy, sleep, die. Or he chose not to think of how his death would feel at all, if he has no empathy.

All murderers have to take chances. Jodi, Casey, they all did things that were risky. Risk goes hand-in-hand with murder. He may have made many steps to minimize that he wouldn't be seen (arrive later than most his co-workers, park in a mostly filled section) and that he wouldn't move around a lot (use old infant seat, put straps on lowest, tightest setting.)

6. He brought coworkers near his car at lunch. He didn't pay any attention to coworkers walking towards his car in the AM.

Did he 'bring them' or did he just not have a feasible reason to tell them not to come near his car with him. Worst case scenario (in his mind), is if someone discovered Cooper before he died, he'd drop to his knees and act devastated and use the same routine he did at night. The risk was high, but the reward--to a sociopath narcissist-- if Cooper died and he didn't go to prison for life for it, would be great. Same as Casey.

I put my thoughts in red.

Honestly, I lean towards guilt on this case. But I know that I don't know what I don't know, lol. I know lots more than we know right now will come out at trial and I might change my mind.

I just know that from my understanding of sociopaths, if he is a sociopath, the things that would bother a normal person/parent/lover, bother them not at all. And risk taking to achieve desired outcomes are common.

Heck, he could have antisocial personality disorder. My point is, his other behaviors (sexting with minors) show he's not exactly averse to repugnant, illegal, risk taking behaviors. What risk would he be willing to take if he lacked a conscience AND desired to be child free?

 

[MsMarple]

According to the ACJ::



8:55. Left CF. (Approx. time)
8:55:19. Texted he missed time to himself and going out with friends.
9AM. Arrived HD parking lot/work
9:12. Woman he's texting with says she feels unappreciated and drained by her 2 young children, but that she doesn't resent her kids, she resents "him." Husband.
9:15:15. He says his wife gets upset when he goes out with friends.
9:15:33. I love my son, but we need escapes...
9:18:09. She says- maybe that's our issue too..I need a break from "love."
9:24:15. He says- agreed.
9:24:23. Him: Hug
9:24:28. Him: We both need that.


So:

1. he wasn't texting en route, UNLESS the 8:55:19 text was sent then.

2. The woman he was texting with wasn't talking about being child free, and explicited said she didn't resent her children.

3. His complaint, stated twice, was about his wife not being OK with him spending time out, not anything about Cooper.

4. He says he loves his son, not just that he doesn't resent him or the like.

5. This conversation largely took place after he left Cooper in the car. He texted after the fact, if intentional? And didn't delete these "incriminating" texts?

What I hear in the texts are 2 married parents, both of whom are feeling resentful about their SPOUSES, not their kids.

RBBM

There seems to be a conflict about the times:

After leaving the restaurant at 9:19 a.m., Stoddard said Ross Harris strapped Cooper into his rear-facing car seat. Because of the dimensions of the Hyundai Tuscson, a small SUV, the top of the car seat was only about six inches from Ross Harris' head, and protruded in between the two front seats, the detective said.

Ross Harris arrived at work about 9:25 a.m. Throughout the day, he talked on an inner-office chat with several friends, making plans for lunch and a 5 p.m. movie -- 22nd Jump Street. He went to lunch with friends at Publix, and then made a stop at Home Depot to buy light bulbs.

So, according to the July 3 preliminary hearing Ross left the restaurant at 9:19 and arrived at work about 9:25.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/justin_ross_harris_hearing_bri.html
http://legacy.11alive.com/story/new...cause-bond-hearing-in-hot-car-death/12143057/

 

[Magdalyn]

I have no idea what such parents say, but anyone who has ever parented a toddler knows that many times and places their own wants and needs trump everything else, including a parent's admonishment to pipe down. How long would it have taken for those needs to trump an admonishment?

I refuse to try to imagine an awake OR a first asleep then awakened Cooper in that car and what happened to him, so won't go there.

The gist of my point was that his father could not be assured that a Cooper in plain view would keep quiet.

As for what Cooper could or couldn't see from his seat, and whether or not he'd have known where he was. Kids are different, but my son was extremely observant even at that age and did recognize the places where he went most frequently (he never went to daycare, so can't comment specifically on daycare).

Mine were observant too, but they were Cooper's age in the early 2000's/ and the right height/weight to be sitting upright in forward facing seats at 22 months. Had a much better view and were not reclined, facing the back seat/straps at infant setting.

There's always risk with murder. I can't think of any murder case I've followed where the murderer had 100% assurance before doing it that it would all go off without a hitch or they wouldn't be caught in the act, interrupted, seen, etc. And if he has a serious personality disorder, the risk taking is part of the package.

As far as asking kids to 'pipe down' , I'm reminded of a time where we were driving to the beach for vacation when our kids were 2 and 4. My husband was expecting a phone interview for a big promotion while we were driving so we made sure I took that driving shift, and we told the kids "When Daddy's phone rings, we have to be VERY silent for the WHOLE phone call. Daddy will be talking to an important person for a new job."

They did it. They were silent for 45 minutes. Not a peep, whine, or poke at their sibling. And I think they got extra play time at McDonald's as a reward.

As you mentioned earlier, perhaps Cooper was used to his needs being ignored when with his father. Perhaps it would take a lot to make him bother to cry for attention. Just don't know what their dynamic is, or if Cooper was used to neglectful parenting from his dad.

 

[Hope4More]

I put my thoughts in red.

Honestly, I lean towards guilt on this case. But I know that I don't know what I don't know, lol. I know lots more than we know right now will come out at trial and I might change my mind.

I just know that from my understanding of sociopaths, if he is a sociopath, the things that would bother a normal person/parent/lover, bother them not at all. And risk taking to achieve desired outcomes are common.

Heck, he could have antisocial personality disorder. My point is, his other behaviors (sexting with minors) show he's not exactly averse to repugnant, illegal, risk taking behaviors. What risk would he be willing to take if he lacked a conscience AND desired to be child free?

I can't equate his sexting with minors with being capable of killing his own child, much less in the way Cooper died.

As for whether or not he is a sociopath. I haven't read anything that suggests he is, and so don't make that leap. Casey Anthony rejected Caylee from the time she was born, and did everything she could all along to escape parenting her. Ross seems to have wanted to spend time with his son and, if friends' accounts are accurate, spoke of him constantly, chose where to live based on his son's needs, etc. That doesn't say sociopath to me.

And what also doesn't say sociopath is his wife's continuing belief that her husband is innocent. She's divorced from him now and has no reason, if she ever did, to support him.

Unless you believe she too is a sociopath, which IMO is close to what she'd have to be to NOT hold her ex responsible, if she had the slightest doubt whatsoever that he was capable of killing their son.

The one and only piece of "evidence" that gives me pause in that regard is his (subjective) seeming lack of emotion when being questioned, before he was charged.

I'm almost positive that had that been me, responsible for the death of my own child (can barely even type those words), I wouldn't have been capable of coherency at all, and when I finally was, (sorry if this offends anyone), I'd have to put on suicide watch forever, because I quite literally wouldn't be able to live with the guilt and anguish of what I'd done, even accidentally.

Even that piece is subjective, as in, maybe he was in total shock or some such......

FWIW...I honestly don't have a solid opinion guilty or not because IMO too many facts are unknown. If anything, so far I lean towards finding grounds for reasonable doubt, whatever the reality is/was.